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The Constitution allows the AZ law

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  • The Constitution allows the AZ law

    I invite your attention to the United States Constitution, particularly the last sentence:


    Article I, Section 10:

    Section. 10. No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.
    No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.
    No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.


    I then invite you to come to the Arizona border, where large areas of public land are closed to Americans due to the threat from the smugglers of both people and drugs; talk to the officers who have been shot at by these same smugglers; see the areas trashed by these illegal aliens; and then tell me why Arizona and the Federal Government should ignore both Federal Law and our Constitution. This is an invasion in fact, if not by an existing government.

    By the way, Federal Law requires aliens in the United States to carry their passport with visa or resident alien identification card (green card) at all times. Failure to do so can result in deportation, and forfeiture of the visa or green card.
    "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
    John Stuart Mill

  • #2
    Originally posted by Sleuth View Post

    By the way, Federal Law requires aliens in the United States to carry their passport with visa or resident alien identification card (green card) at all times. Failure to do so can result in deportation, and forfeiture of the visa or green card.

    Ah, but citizens are not required to carry any ID at all. Therefore, if someone tells an officer that they don't have their DL on them, how do you know whether they are illegal and are lying, or a citizen and telling the truth? Most people who are for the AZ law (as am I) either don't understand this simple logical problem, or are trying to gloss it over to make their point, which really ticks me off even when I agree with them.

    That's why we need a national ID card that you're required to carry.
    If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.

    ---Jack Handey

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by School Cop View Post
      Ah, but citizens are not required to carry any ID at all. Therefore, if someone tells an officer that they don't have their DL on them, how do you know whether they are illegal and are lying, or a citizen and telling the truth? Most people who are for the AZ law (as am I) either don't understand this simple logical problem, or are trying to gloss it over to make their point, which really ticks me off even when I agree with them.

      That's why we need a national ID card that you're required to carry.
      And if you were president and put in charge of this national ID card for legal citizens how would you go about it? How much would it cost? If you lose it how much is it to renew it? Do you have to update it and if so how often and is that more money? If i am walking down the street and leave it at home and i get caught for J-walking and you find out i don't have it, do i face jail time, fines, and do i have the choice to go to court and appeal your discretion to prove i am a legal citizen, costing your department and the courts, and taxpayers money because i didn't have an ID card on me?

      Let's say i'm president oposed to you. I have a BRILLIANT idea! We will call it.... Are you ready??? THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!!!

      It will show all the info of who your family is, and where you are from. You will also be assigned a social security number.

      If you don't have a drivers license on you when driving, you face charges, however, if i look up your info and find a birth certificate i know who are you.
      Been chatting to a girl online. She's funny, sexy and flirty. Now she tells me she is an undercover cop! How cool is that at her age!?

      Comment


      • #4
        I had a friend who was all in favor of national identity cards, right up until he moved to Germany. After dealing with the police there ("Papers, please") he came back dead set against them.

        And since the illegals get phony DL's, SS cards, and all kinds of ID, how long will it take before they have phony National ID?
        Last edited by Sleuth; 07-31-2010, 06:34 PM.
        "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
        John Stuart Mill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by FromOhio View Post
          And if you were president and put in charge of this national ID card for legal citizens how would you go about it? How much would it cost? If you lose it how much is it to renew it? Do you have to update it and if so how often and is that more money? If i am walking down the street and leave it at home and i get caught for J-walking and you find out i don't have it, do i face jail time, fines, and do i have the choice to go to court and appeal your discretion to prove i am a legal citizen, costing your department and the courts, and taxpayers money because i didn't have an ID card on me?

          Let's say i'm president oposed to you. I have a BRILLIANT idea! We will call it.... Are you ready??? THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!!!

          It will show all the info of who your family is, and where you are from. You will also be assigned a social security number.

          If you don't have a drivers license on you when driving, you face charges, however, if i look up your info and find a birth certificate i know who are you.
          I am curious how do you look up info from a birth certificate? Can you look up info from any birth certificate from all 50 states? How many different formats do birth certificates come in from all fifty states? I am ready for the answer if you have it.

          FB

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by School Cop View Post
            That's why we need a national ID card that you're required to carry.
            We already have a national ID card. It is so high speed low drag that it weighs nothing. It is called "Speaking English".
            The beatings will continue until morale improves.

            Originally posted by jcioccke
            After I hit it, I would be disgusted with her

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by School Cop View Post
              Ah, but citizens are not required to carry any ID at all. Therefore, if someone tells an officer that they don't have their DL on them, how do you know whether they are illegal and are lying, or a citizen and telling the truth? Most people who are for the AZ law (as am I) either don't understand this simple logical problem, or are trying to gloss it over to make their point, which really ticks me off even when I agree with them.

              That's why we need a national ID card that you're required to carry.
              But as with everything else, it all changes once an officer has RS.

              If said officer has RS that they are committing a crime, such as being an illegal, then AZ law REQUIRES them to produce ID. They can be arrested for not presenting an ID to law enforcement. And BTW, a drivers license is not proof of legal status. The new AZ law allows officers to accept it as such, but under federal law it does not qualify as proof of citizenship/legal status.
              Last edited by Cyber_Saint; 07-31-2010, 05:50 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Firebug View Post
                I am curious how do you look up info from a birth certificate? Can you look up info from any birth certificate from all 50 states? How many different formats do birth certificates come in from all fifty states? I am ready for the answer if you have it.

                FB
                To answer you as an EXPERT in birth certificates with info found on google hahaha, most birth certificates are a registered state file. They have a national recommended standard form, but each state is able to create their own. Now say you are dealing with someone who claims they are legal but do not posses ANY info except a birth certificate, you would probably do what they do right now. Call for a background investigator. I'm not one, and i don't know how they look up info, but i would work my way by putting a puzzle together.

                Each state has different forms. Have copies of those and take a look at the birth certificate given. You just narrowed down 50 states to 1 state. In that state is a single registry of it. Compare the two. If you have a match, put more things together. If you don't have a match, this would call for other documents, dna, fingerprints, etc. Now say you have a match, because this person is legal and isn't going to forge a certificate when he's really legal and trying to prove that. You look up the maiden names of the parents on there. From there you start contacting people who may know them if you can't get ahold of them such as former employees. Find out who knows the son, get info, and start pieceing things together. Sure it's a lot of work, and im sure background investigators have much better ways to find out info about someone so in reality, the way things are right now are fine imo. I wish i knew more about how things work so i can give you a more realistic answer. But it's not impossible to get info. It would just be a pain in the ***.
                Been chatting to a girl online. She's funny, sexy and flirty. Now she tells me she is an undercover cop! How cool is that at her age!?

                Comment


                • #9
                  One problem, I look nothing like my baby pictures
                  Today's Quote:

                  "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
                  Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 10-7Alpha View Post
                    We already have a national ID card. It is so high speed low drag that it weighs nothing. It is called "Speaking English".
                    So lets say, hypothetically...X moves from Germany, X doesn't speak much English but has learned enough on how to pass his citizenship and obtain the right. How will you determine he is in fact an American Citizen solely from how he speaks and sounds. Secondly, if you pull him over for what ever petty crime he committed and ask him to produce his papers...and he doesn't have them. Well, your task suddenly becomes a bit more complicated. You send him to jail and it is determined he is legal. Well, you've just wasted plenty of time when you could have been dealing with far more serious issues at hand. ...and I'm not saying Immigration isn't an issue, but time can be better used. Like answering a call to a homicide instead of a traffic stop being turned from a Usually less than 1 hour(Circumstances pending), to a far greater ordeal.

                    I'm pretty sure your being sarcastic, but if not...its a clear failure to understand key issues.
                    Last edited by ChiliManiac; 08-02-2010, 02:55 AM.
                    Originally posted by Law100
                    I didn't realize you were the chump that reported me. In that case, I hope you die slowly.
                    "Treat your password like your toothbrush. Don't let anybody else use it, and get a new one every six months."
                    —Clifford Stoll

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ChiliManiac View Post
                      I'm pretty sure your being sarcastic, but if not...its a clear failure to understand key issues.
                      I was being sarcastic. The initial response was to a national ID card. That being the key issue, it is a horrible idea.
                      The beatings will continue until morale improves.

                      Originally posted by jcioccke
                      After I hit it, I would be disgusted with her

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 10-7Alpha View Post
                        I was being sarcastic. The initial response was to a national ID card. That being the key issue, it is a horrible idea.
                        Haha .
                        Originally posted by Law100
                        I didn't realize you were the chump that reported me. In that case, I hope you die slowly.
                        "Treat your password like your toothbrush. Don't let anybody else use it, and get a new one every six months."
                        —Clifford Stoll

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is real simple. If you combine training and experience the officer can make a - this is ground breaking, sit down- a judgement call!

                          The very same methods an officer would use to turn a traffic stop into a stolen property being recovered or a missing child recovered.

                          I know it's an amazing ground breaking concept. Law enforcement officer would detect a crime, investigate and prosecute. I believe a few of the 9-11 attackers could have been on a traffic stop if the the officer would have had some ARS and been allowed to check immigration status
                          Any views or opinions presented by this prenomen are solely those of a burlesque author and do not necessarily represent those of a LEA or caementum couturier.

                          nom de plume

                          This is the internet- take all information with a grain of salt. Such could be valid and true or could be typed just for playing devils advocate.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            or we could just mandate all employers to use e-verify. It is cheap and it actually works.

                            Comment

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