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Open Carry On Its Way Out In California?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by willbird View Post
    John Dillinger once shot a cop he saw hitch up his belt after he got out of his car. Of course that was before most of us were born..........

    The HATRED of OC that some people have is very illuminating..................it shows that that person REALLY does not like having CONTROL of other peoples self defense rights. The same folks would probably favor Criminal protection zones where only "special" people can carry.............and also probably favor long and intensive, and expensive training before a person gets a CCW.

    In short they are fine with CCW or armed citizens as long as there are very strict rules and controls in place on the process. These folks I would imagine are very uneasy about states like Alaska, VT, and now AZ that pretty much let anybody carry....and in many instances....carry mostly everywhere.

    LEO folks that HATE OC.........I would suggest that you study up on the laws before you make a move for a job opportunity..............in OH we have OC rights, and we will KEEP them too, so if you cannot stomach that....stay where you live now. Some folks for a variety of reasons cannot get a CCW (recent move to a state for one example) and these folks should not be disarmed.

    Blaming the draconian laws of CALI on people who protest them.............man that is a hoot...............I suppose slavery was the fault of those folks who were opposed to it ??


    There are two kinds of people vocally opposed to OC................those that really hate citizens having guns to begin with, and folks who prefer to keep a lower profile in hope that bowing and scraping will keep them off the radar of the gun banners.

    I think during the Revolutionary war those that sought to appease their oppressors were called "Tories" ? And I'm sure in every OTHER time of civil rights movements of other kinds there were those that screamed and cried about those stirring things up.........................and clapping their hands with glee when some of those folks got lynched "told you so.............. doesn't pay to stir folks up.............he got what he deserved"



    Bill
    Enjoyable post Bill

    Comment


    • #47
      willbird, I wish I could rep ya here.
      NRA Life Member

      The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence. - Sir Robert Peel

      Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. - H. L. Mencken

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by opencarry View Post
        Told us what, it isn't over yet This is not going to end us passing IMO, incorporation is right around the corner

        I agree incorporation is probably right around the corner, but it isn't going to be a free for all. They will still allow the states to have some control over who, what, where, and maybe even when. They pretty much said that already in overturning DC's total ban.

        I disagree however if you think this law won't pass. You just don't understand the "gun paranoia" in California. Remember we already ban trans fats from resteraunts. If they don't trust us to even decide what we want to eat, do you really think they are going to let the masses carry guns around?

        By the way what I had said before was that if the OC movement pulled their publicity stunts here, the people and politicians would get their panties in a bunch and pass a law banning OC, generally making life harder on all of us that are pro gun ownership instead of the "enlightment" they were selling.
        Last edited by mdrdep; 06-04-2010, 01:55 PM. Reason: forgot something
        Today's Quote:

        "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
        Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by mdrdep View Post
          I agree incorporation is probably right around the corner, but it isn't going to be a free for all. They will still allow the states to have some control over who, what, where, and maybe even when. They pretty much said that already in overturning DC's total ban.

          I disagree however if you think this law won't pass. You just don't understand the "gun paranoia" in California. Remember we already ban trans fats from resteraunts. If they don't trust us to even decide what we want to eat, do you really think they are going to let the masses carry guns around?

          By the way what I had said before was that if the OC movement pulled their publicity stunts here, the people and politicians would get their panties in a bunch and pass a law banning OC, generally making life harder on all of us that are pro gun ownership instead of the "enlightment" they were selling.
          Well I guess I really cannot argue the mentality of a state I have never been in, I will have to take your guy's word as to how they are there and I will bow out of this debate for lack of a proper understanding of the Cali culture and the realization I may just be speaking out of my rear if they are as bad as you say they are.

          Comment


          • #50
            Pave Pusher. suppose you answer the rather loaded questions you have posed. I suspect another of those "agenda's" trolls so often bring to this site. The "issue" of open carry is not one limited to the State of California. For you to suggest otherwise, really demonstrates an ignorance of the issue. Keep in mind that the great preponderance of members of this forum are pretty pro-Second Ammendment, so it really makes little sense for you to single out California. If you're still confused, do a little research. You'll find it very informative and rewarding.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by willbird View Post
              John Dillinger once shot a cop he saw hitch up his belt after he got out of his car. Of course that was before most of us were born..........

              The HATRED of OC that some people have is very illuminating..................it shows that that person REALLY does not like having CONTROL of other peoples self defense rights. The same folks would probably favor Criminal protection zones where only "special" people can carry.............and also probably favor long and intensive, and expensive training before a person gets a CCW.

              In short they are fine with CCW or armed citizens as long as there are very strict rules and controls in place on the process. These folks I would imagine are very uneasy about states like Alaska, VT, and now AZ that pretty much let anybody carry....and in many instances....carry mostly everywhere.

              LEO folks that HATE OC.........I would suggest that you study up on the laws before you make a move for a job opportunity..............in OH we have OC rights, and we will KEEP them too, so if you cannot stomach that....stay where you live now. Some folks for a variety of reasons cannot get a CCW (recent move to a state for one example) and these folks should not be disarmed.

              Blaming the draconian laws of CALI on people who protest them.............man that is a hoot...............I suppose slavery was the fault of those folks who were opposed to it ??


              There are two kinds of people vocally opposed to OC................those that really hate citizens having guns to begin with, and folks who prefer to keep a lower profile in hope that bowing and scraping will keep them off the radar of the gun banners.

              I think during the Revolutionary war those that sought to appease their oppressors were called "Tories" ? And I'm sure in every OTHER time of civil rights movements of other kinds there were those that screamed and cried about those stirring things up.........................and clapping their hands with glee when some of those folks got lynched "told you so.............. doesn't pay to stir folks up.............he got what he deserved"



              Bill
              well said willbird.
              let me ask a question.. folks get all sirred up and the government got rid of 2nd . suppose that happen, and how the hell should i get rid of my "mini private amory" ??... well,i dont really care since im kind of old and i will fight to keep my guns just like i fought in the war. and i aint fought for nothing .
              Last edited by pfchell; 06-04-2010, 05:10 PM.
              break censorship chains

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by L-1 View Post
                I don't believe anyone here has suggested they are, although you have implied it by your question. Perhaps you can explain it.




                I don't think anyone here suggested that either, although again, you have implied it by the wording of your question. Perhaps you can explain your either/or logic and why there might not be other reasons involved.



                I don't know, can you please tell me? (You are the only one who has suggested this, so I assume you will exlain it to us.)



                Yes you are. You ask us multiple choice questions but the only answer option you afford us do not fit. It's like asking us if Mickey Mouse is a cat or a dog and expecting an intelligent response.

                I don't think it is appropriate for you to come into a forum, imply a certain set of beliefs or philosophy in a set of questions and then challenge the group to defend against your assumptions with such limited answer options. You sir are a troll. Go away.

                I'm not trying to imply anything, these are the conclusions that I see implied by the pending legislation. If you have other conclusions, please suggest them, I fully admit I may be missing something.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Perhaps I do need to rephrase my question. (By the way, my apologies for seeming to single out California, but they are the ones currently in the limelight. The same topic applies to states such as New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, Florida, Texas... anywhere Open Carry is forbiden or heavily discouraged by agents of the state.)

                  Why do the politicians so distrust the Citizens to bear arms, and so distrust the Police to act correctly to the visible exercise of a Civil Right?

                  And again, I'm not trying to slam LEO's here, I'm questioning the motives of politicians, as apply to current legislation in California.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by willbird View Post
                    John Dillinger once shot a cop he saw hitch up his belt after he got out of his car. Of course that was before most of us were born..........

                    The HATRED of OC that some people have is very illuminating..................it shows that that person REALLY does not like having CONTROL of other peoples self defense rights. The same folks would probably favor Criminal protection zones where only "special" people can carry.............and also probably favor long and intensive, and expensive training before a person gets a CCW.

                    In short they are fine with CCW or armed citizens as long as there are very strict rules and controls in place on the process. These folks I would imagine are very uneasy about states like Alaska, VT, and now AZ that pretty much let anybody carry....and in many instances....carry mostly everywhere.

                    LEO folks that HATE OC.........I would suggest that you study up on the laws before you make a move for a job opportunity..............in OH we have OC rights, and we will KEEP them too, so if you cannot stomach that....stay where you live now. Some folks for a variety of reasons cannot get a CCW (recent move to a state for one example) and these folks should not be disarmed.

                    Blaming the draconian laws of CALI on people who protest them.............man that is a hoot...............I suppose slavery was the fault of those folks who were opposed to it ??


                    There are two kinds of people vocally opposed to OC................those that really hate citizens having guns to begin with, and folks who prefer to keep a lower profile in hope that bowing and scraping will keep them off the radar of the gun banners.

                    I think during the Revolutionary war those that sought to appease their oppressors were called "Tories" ? And I'm sure in every OTHER time of civil rights movements of other kinds there were those that screamed and cried about those stirring things up.........................and clapping their hands with glee when some of those folks got lynched "told you so.............. doesn't pay to stir folks up.............he got what he deserved"



                    Bill
                    This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

                    Name one true advantage of OC over CCW.
                    Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by PavePusher View Post
                      Perhaps I do need to rephrase my question. (By the way, my apologies for seeming to single out California, but they are the ones currently in the limelight. The same topic applies to states such as New York, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, Florida, Texas... anywhere Open Carry is forbiden or heavily discouraged by agents of the state.)

                      Why do the politicians so distrust the Citizens to bear arms, and so distrust the Police to act correctly to the visible exercise of a Civil Right?

                      And again, I'm not trying to slam LEO's here, I'm questioning the motives of politicians, as apply to current legislation in California.
                      This is my thoughts on why politicians are getting rid of OC in CA.

                      1) Law enforcement diverted to deal with call of a "man with a gun" versus responding to a different call or doing some pro-active work. Takes time to 97, legally detain to verify that it is an OC and the weapon is clear, give it back, and then hop back in the car and off to the other calls. Times that by how many units have to respond for cover when they get a "man with a gun call". That's 2-4 officers down from calls.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by PavePusher View Post
                        Why do the politicians so distrust the Citizens to bear arms, and so distrust the Police to act correctly to the visible exercise of a Civil Right?
                        Again, you offer assumptions not supported by the facts.

                        Within every piece of proposed legislation is a section defining legislative intent. Can you quote me legislative intent from any of those bills stating the legislation is being proposed because the legislature does not trust Citizens to bear arms, or distructs the Police to act correctly to the visible exercise of a Civil Right?

                        You are creating a straw man and asking us to amuse you by doing battle with it. Again sir, you are a troll. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
                        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by avalon42 View Post
                          This is my thoughts on why politicians are getting rid of OC in CA.

                          1) Law enforcement diverted to deal with call of a "man with a gun" versus responding to a different call or doing some pro-active work. Takes time to 97, legally detain to verify that it is an OC and the weapon is clear, give it back, and then hop back in the car and off to the other calls. Times that by how many units have to respond for cover when they get a "man with a gun call". That's 2-4 officers down from calls.
                          Imagine a lawful assembly or several individual OCer's in Cal OCing airsoft or replicas. This has the potential to cripple a municipality or even the entire county. I suspect open carry of airsoft unloaded/replica is legal in Cal. If this is the case maybe the Cal General Assembly should look at outlawing OC of look alike toy handguns. Perhaps they may issue a CC airsoft/replica for the same.

                          Now ask, what was the man with the gun doing, shopping, filing the car up, mowing his lawn going to the gun shop to purchase ammo, holding up the bank.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Chief Wiggum View Post
                            This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read.

                            Name one true advantage of OC over CCW.

                            More of a visual deterrent, more comfortable, easier to carry a larger firearm if preferred, faster draw for most people

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by surfer View Post
                              Imagine a lawful assembly or several individual OCer's in Cal OCing airsoft or replicas. This has the potential to cripple a municipality or even the entire county. I suspect open carry of airsoft unloaded/replica is legal in Cal. If this is the case maybe the Cal General Assembly should look at outlawing OC of look alike toy handguns. Perhaps they may issue a CC airsoft/replica for the same.

                              Now ask, what was the man with the gun doing, shopping, filing the car up, mowing his lawn going to the gun shop to purchase ammo, holding up the bank.
                              You're right. PD or SO don't have time to waste on that sort of thing.

                              I understand that SOME of the OCers are following the law, even contacting the PD to let them know that they going to be demonstrating (like Tustin). I understand that they are advocating for gun rights, and I can respect that (I am a gun nut myself) but they went about it the wrong way. Walking around Starbucks or a grocery store isn't the way to press the issue for CCWs.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by avalon42 View Post
                                You're right. PD or SO don't have time to waste on that sort of thing.

                                I understand that SOME of the OCers are following the law, even contacting the PD to let them know that they going to be demonstrating (like Tustin). I understand that they are advocating for gun rights, and I can respect that (I am a gun nut myself) but they went about it the wrong way. Walking around Starbucks or a grocery store isn't the way to press the issue for CCWs.
                                Keep in mind some people do not OC just for advocating the right to do it, some do it to have a means of self defense on their person. How many OCers in Cali were found to actually have been OCing loaded weapons? Even checking may have just been a colossal waste of time anyhow. ( That was a serious question, I am not sure if any were found to be OCing loaded )

                                I do know some people OC just for the shock factor and try to get attention doing it, but a lot of OCers do it for just lawful self defense

                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngsKzdKNAmo <-- Fun video
                                Last edited by opencarry; 06-05-2010, 02:11 PM.

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