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  • Duke
    replied
    This topic brings up an issue which I always seem to some back to...in my mind.

    Why don't all PD's and SO's use two officer car plans? Had this deputy had a partner on scene, he might be alive today.

    I know the reason. Budgets make it better for the agencies pocketbooks. Putting two cops in a car may slow down response times to hot calls. They'd have to hire more officers (at least that's what I imagine they're thinking) to compensate for the lost coverage. Plus 2 officers puts half as many black and whites in the field, so the illusion will be that there are twice as many officers out there.

    I'm just babbling here, but the bottom line is that the majority of departments consider your safety a cost issue. It costs them too much $$ for you to work with a partner. Kind of makes you wonder how much your life is really worth to them? Sad.

    I agree with LB Bomb's old Lt. I would rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. I've already made up my mind: If someone points a weapon at me, the time for voice commands is gone. I will shoot without hesitation and let the lawyers do what they will later.

    [ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: Duke ]

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  • PeelerUSA
    replied
    (*ATTN-Newer officers-I learned the hard way-you shouldn

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  • klar
    replied
    Yes while it is hard to take anothers life sometimes it is a nessessary evil that we have to do to protect others. I have yet to talk to a officer who really enjoyed pulling that trigger while aiming at another human being. All I can say is stay safe out there for the BG's are not going to cut you a break.

    Klar

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  • Legal Assistant
    replied


    [ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Legal Assistant ]

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  • Delta_V
    replied
    Originally posted by Legal Assistant:
    We had a situation a few months back where one of our PD officers was forced to shoot and kill a male subject that was charging his partner w/ knife in hand.
    That happened here a couple years ago as well. The officer in question had once been shot in the line of duty, and I had the opportunity to ride with him a couple times. In this situation, while the investigation ruled that the officer was justified, the minority community wasn't happy with that. To appease them, the Chief decided that the officer had suffered too much psychological trauma after being shot, and could no longer continue his job in LE. He was forced to take early medical retirement.

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  • Legal Assistant
    replied


    [ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Legal Assistant ]

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  • LBomb
    replied
    It's real easy to say what you would do if ever faced with a set of circumstances. I had a Lt. in the Academy who drummed into our heads the quote, "Far better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." I always believed that if I had to face a deadly weapon, I would not hesitate. Then I came into the real world of Policing and saw friends arrested for shooting unarmed suspects, careers put on shelves in limbo because of what outsiders believed to be unjust shootings. I have had to face weapons pointed at me...knives, guns, bats...and the fear of being left out in the cold is a factor in determining what type of force you will use. It shouldn't be but it is. It's a dreadful sign of the times. One that will cost someone their life.

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  • Mike Tx
    replied
    Thank the lawyers

    [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: MikeTx ]

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  • Jim Burnes
    replied
    Originally posted by BRICKCOP:
    It should be an unwritten rule that if you point a gun at a cop NO verbal commands will be given, you WILL BE IMMEDIATELY SHOT.

    .

    It has been an unwritten rule. No one else can make that call.

    Jim Burnes

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  • SpecOpsWarrior
    replied
    It should be an unwritten rule that if you point a gun at a cop NO verbal commands will be given, you WILL BE IMMEDIATELY SHOT.

    In my four years of LE work I have NEVER had a gun pointed at me. If someone ever does point a gun at me they wont here a word come out of my mouth.

    Leave a comment:


  • BrickCop
    replied
    It should be an unwritten rule that if you point a gun at a cop NO verbal commands will be given, you WILL BE IMMEDIATELY SHOT.

    Its the same old story-
    Whenever a cop is killed he is called a hero who fell in the line of duty.

    Whenever a cop manages to survive an attack and kill the suspect he is: profiling and/or rushing to judgement and/or using excessive force. And may God almighty help the officer if the suspect is a minority.

    I have not seen or heard of this tragic incident until I saw it on this BB. I 100% agree that the tape should be shown to any civilian review type boards. I also think it should be introduced into any court proceeding where an officer had to shoot a suspect to defend himself.

    Through TV the public is spoon fed unrealistic Hollywood cop fables along with a heap of self serving liberal lawyers and cop-hating "activists" and "Reverends". The general public never gets to witness the horror on that tape, sadly thats the only thing powerful enough to changes some attitudes out there.

    My thoughts and prayers are with Kyle's family.

    Leave a comment:


  • klar
    replied
    The sad thing is it does not matter if he had a vest on or not the bullet resistant type vests that most law enforcement officers wear do not have the capability to stop most high power rifle rounds. I am glad the officer at leat got off one shot to at least injure if not take out the BG

    Klar

    Leave a comment:


  • JKT
    replied
    I have not seen this particular tape, but have seen similar ones.

    It is a whole lot easier to apologize for drawing down on someone, than end up a casualty.

    I decided a long time ago, that I would win, even if I had to "fight dirty".

    As someone's sig line says: "Don't fight fair, fight to win"

    Leave a comment:


  • Pig
    replied
    I haven't seen the video in question, but I agree 100% with Sgt. Dave. Especially the newer officers out there, don't ever, if there is any way you can help it, let yourself get hurt over some POS! My point being if you have to use force, do it. Don't play with them and worry about being sued. As long as you are justified and you document everything, you should be fine. I don't mean any of this as a criticism of the deputy that was killed because I wasn't there and I agree we should try to learn from his tragedy. I know what you mean Dave. My leg still hurts every day. Be careful everyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • Legal Assistant
    replied
    First off, let me say that I probably should have put this post in "Ask A Cop" instead of here and if any moderator wishes to move it, please do so.

    This was taken straight from a memorial site for Deputy Dinkheller:

    Deputy Dinkheller was shot and killed after pulling over a man on a rural road about 6 miles north of Dublin, GA. During the traffic stop he called in for backup. Before the backup arrived he was shot by the man with a rifle. He was able to return fire, striking the suspect in the stomach. The suspect was found during a search the next morning and taken into custody. The incident was videotaped by an a camera in the cruiser. On January 28, 2000, the suspect was found guilty of murder and on January 30 was sentenced to death. Deputy Dinkheller is survived by his pregnant wife and 22-month-old daughter. Deputy Dinkheller's son was born in early September, 1998.

    The story goes that Deputy Dinkheller had pulled the subject over the day before and saw him again on this day and pulled him again. As soon as the subject got out of the car and started acting up Deputy Dinkheller called for backup. The male subject went back to the truck with repeated verbal commands from the officer to stay where he was. He then came out with a 30 carbon at which point Deputy Dinkheller stated several times for the male subject to drop the gun. At this point the male subject began firing, striking Deputy Dinkheller a total of 7 times (the last of these shots was a shot to the head fired as Deputy Dinkheller lay on the ground w/ 6 shots already in him). Deputy Dinkheller was only able to return 1 shot.

    Now, the point of the tape is not to Monday morning quarterback or anything like that. We are not here to criticize Deputy Dinkheller but rather to learn from this situation. The biggest point that was made was the liability issue. A lot of the newer deputies have the liability issue beaten into their heads so much that they tend to think TOO much when faced w/ this type situation. That hesitation cost Deputy Dinkheller his life.

    That Guy, you are talking about the correct tape.

    Leave a comment:

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