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  • Training Video

    How many of you have seen the videotape of Deputy Kyle Dinkheller's (Laurens County S.O.) last traffic stop? I realize this tape may not be shown to many agencies outside of Georgia, but it IS being used as a training video and I was wondering how many other people out there have seen it.

    [ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Legal Assistant ]
    This post has been rated PG-13 for your viewing pleasure.

  • #2
    That will hit close to home for ICE 35, since he was on the same unit with him.



    I've not seen it, and don't think I want to. I already know the (painful) lesson learned-seeing it "live" will not make me feel any better.

    I do wish it could be required for any civilian review board member, or any administrator serving over a police department. They still will jump on the excessive force bandwagon though if an officer goes too far in controlling someone, since "nothing ever happens here in __________-and besides, that _________ isn’t a criminal... "

    It's sad that even though WE learn from these painful and costly mistakes, we have people over us and people in the community that apply unrealistic "Andy Griffith" standards to our job, and hold us back. Their climate of "liability fear" predestines some officers to be hurt/killed.

    I'm not condoning slamming everyone that resists in any minor way right off the bat-I’m old enough and experienced enough to know that there is a line between “good officer that knows when to lay hands on someone” and “over aggressive.” The HARDEST thing I’ve found to teach a new officer is when to “lay hands on someone.” Like me, most are ready to fight by being gung-ho and new, but the climate we’ve created tends to “scare” some officers. I say this because it's generally assumed that an underlying fear of getting sued or getting "in trouble" might have caused DEP Dinkheller to "hold back."

    I wanted to fight when I entered LE, but the “lawsuit, lawsuit, lawsuit” mentality scared me so bad, I became a pacifist almost. It was only AFTER I got hurt trying to “baby” a BM I was trying to arrest in the projects (ended up letting it go TOO far, when I should have ENDED it sooner-ended up having to tackle him on the edge of a steep hill, and we both fell a long way) and I finally realized how bad it was, and opened his scalp up with a Maglite about two minutes into it*, and ended it.

    I was home on sick leave with a sore shoulder I had dislocated and a knee that hurt constantly from having muscles torn that it hit me. I sat at home for three days in bed, and ONLY getting up to go to the bathroom (and that hurt like a mother****er) that I decided-“Screw them-I will NEVER be hurt like this again-I will end it before it starts-I will NEVER NEVER NEVER be hurt like this again over the POS’s. They can fire me, they can sue me, they can charge me, but I will never allow a POS to cause me to be hurt like this again.” I repeated this to myself about 500 times over those three miserable days. After that, I was a different officer, and I’ve never had a scratch put on me over a BG. I’ve learned when to lay hands on them, how to end it quickly, and how to articulate in my reports WHY I felt the need to use whatever level/means of force I use, and have been fine ever since, even though I have had a couple of EF complaints filed to my department, I was always found to have been justified.

    Thanks liberals for causing DEP Dinkheller’s mind to be on getting sued. Not that you care or anything though; after all, you usually say "he had took the oath-he was paid to take risks... "


    (*ATTN-Newer officers-I learned the hard way-you shouldn’t have to. An attempt to subdue someone by physical force should NEVER go that long-if you are not actively winning, you are ACTIVELY LOSING. Subdue-don’t “fight.” Yes, there is still “excessive force” but if you are attempting a technique that is not working after a few seconds, you MUST escalate. Just BE SURE you document what you tried that DIDN”T work-this is so important and often overlooked.)
    People have more fun than anybody.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think I saw this one. If it is the one where the guy who dances in the roadway befor he loads the rifle in front of the officer then it is.
      If it's not it does not matter. I really do not like watching those tapes. But I will say that after I watch them it recharges my senses and reminds me what could happen in this job.

      That Guy
      Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The views expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer [This sig stolen from Brickcop who stole it from Frank Booth].

      Comment


      • #4
        I apologize about not knowing about this incident. Could you please fill me in on the details of what happened, what should have been done and what was done wrong? I would much appreciate it.

        God Bless

        [ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: NeckCrank ]

        Comment


        • #5
          First off, let me say that I probably should have put this post in "Ask A Cop" instead of here and if any moderator wishes to move it, please do so.

          This was taken straight from a memorial site for Deputy Dinkheller:

          Deputy Dinkheller was shot and killed after pulling over a man on a rural road about 6 miles north of Dublin, GA. During the traffic stop he called in for backup. Before the backup arrived he was shot by the man with a rifle. He was able to return fire, striking the suspect in the stomach. The suspect was found during a search the next morning and taken into custody. The incident was videotaped by an a camera in the cruiser. On January 28, 2000, the suspect was found guilty of murder and on January 30 was sentenced to death. Deputy Dinkheller is survived by his pregnant wife and 22-month-old daughter. Deputy Dinkheller's son was born in early September, 1998.

          The story goes that Deputy Dinkheller had pulled the subject over the day before and saw him again on this day and pulled him again. As soon as the subject got out of the car and started acting up Deputy Dinkheller called for backup. The male subject went back to the truck with repeated verbal commands from the officer to stay where he was. He then came out with a 30 carbon at which point Deputy Dinkheller stated several times for the male subject to drop the gun. At this point the male subject began firing, striking Deputy Dinkheller a total of 7 times (the last of these shots was a shot to the head fired as Deputy Dinkheller lay on the ground w/ 6 shots already in him). Deputy Dinkheller was only able to return 1 shot.

          Now, the point of the tape is not to Monday morning quarterback or anything like that. We are not here to criticize Deputy Dinkheller but rather to learn from this situation. The biggest point that was made was the liability issue. A lot of the newer deputies have the liability issue beaten into their heads so much that they tend to think TOO much when faced w/ this type situation. That hesitation cost Deputy Dinkheller his life.

          That Guy, you are talking about the correct tape.
          This post has been rated PG-13 for your viewing pleasure.

          Comment


          • #6
            I haven't seen the video in question, but I agree 100% with Sgt. Dave. Especially the newer officers out there, don't ever, if there is any way you can help it, let yourself get hurt over some POS! My point being if you have to use force, do it. Don't play with them and worry about being sued. As long as you are justified and you document everything, you should be fine. I don't mean any of this as a criticism of the deputy that was killed because I wasn't there and I agree we should try to learn from his tragedy. I know what you mean Dave. My leg still hurts every day. Be careful everyone.

            Comment


            • #7
              I have not seen this particular tape, but have seen similar ones.

              It is a whole lot easier to apologize for drawing down on someone, than end up a casualty.

              I decided a long time ago, that I would win, even if I had to "fight dirty".

              As someone's sig line says: "Don't fight fair, fight to win"
              Optimistic pessimist: Hope for the best, but expect the worst.

              Jack

              [email protected]

              Comment


              • #8
                The sad thing is it does not matter if he had a vest on or not the bullet resistant type vests that most law enforcement officers wear do not have the capability to stop most high power rifle rounds. I am glad the officer at leat got off one shot to at least injure if not take out the BG

                Klar
                Are you a Veteran? If so join AMVETS the only organization that accepts all vets no matter when or where they served. Contact me for more info.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It should be an unwritten rule that if you point a gun at a cop NO verbal commands will be given, you WILL BE IMMEDIATELY SHOT.

                  Its the same old story-
                  Whenever a cop is killed he is called a hero who fell in the line of duty.

                  Whenever a cop manages to survive an attack and kill the suspect he is: profiling and/or rushing to judgement and/or using excessive force. And may God almighty help the officer if the suspect is a minority.

                  I have not seen or heard of this tragic incident until I saw it on this BB. I 100% agree that the tape should be shown to any civilian review type boards. I also think it should be introduced into any court proceeding where an officer had to shoot a suspect to defend himself.

                  Through TV the public is spoon fed unrealistic Hollywood cop fables along with a heap of self serving liberal lawyers and cop-hating "activists" and "Reverends". The general public never gets to witness the horror on that tape, sadly thats the only thing powerful enough to changes some attitudes out there.

                  My thoughts and prayers are with Kyle's family.
                  Disclaimer: The writer does not represent any organization, employer, entity or other individual. The first amendment protected views/commentary/opinions/satire expressed are those only of the writer. In the case of a sarcastic, facetious, nonsensical, stirring-the-pot, controversial or devil's advocate-type post, the views expressed may not even reflect those of the writer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It should be an unwritten rule that if you point a gun at a cop NO verbal commands will be given, you WILL BE IMMEDIATELY SHOT.

                    In my four years of LE work I have NEVER had a gun pointed at me. If someone ever does point a gun at me they wont here a word come out of my mouth.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BRICKCOP:
                      It should be an unwritten rule that if you point a gun at a cop NO verbal commands will be given, you WILL BE IMMEDIATELY SHOT.

                      .

                      It has been an unwritten rule. No one else can make that call.

                      Jim Burnes

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank the lawyers

                        [ 01-16-2002: Message edited by: MikeTx ]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's real easy to say what you would do if ever faced with a set of circumstances. I had a Lt. in the Academy who drummed into our heads the quote, "Far better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." I always believed that if I had to face a deadly weapon, I would not hesitate. Then I came into the real world of Policing and saw friends arrested for shooting unarmed suspects, careers put on shelves in limbo because of what outsiders believed to be unjust shootings. I have had to face weapons pointed at me...knives, guns, bats...and the fear of being left out in the cold is a factor in determining what type of force you will use. It shouldn't be but it is. It's a dreadful sign of the times. One that will cost someone their life.
                          "The streets of Philadelphia are safe...it's the people that make them unsafe"---Frank Rizzo
                          http://hometown.aol.com/ppd9886/PhillyCopSpot.html

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                          • #14


                            [ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Legal Assistant ]
                            This post has been rated PG-13 for your viewing pleasure.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Legal Assistant:
                              We had a situation a few months back where one of our PD officers was forced to shoot and kill a male subject that was charging his partner w/ knife in hand.
                              That happened here a couple years ago as well. The officer in question had once been shot in the line of duty, and I had the opportunity to ride with him a couple times. In this situation, while the investigation ruled that the officer was justified, the minority community wasn't happy with that. To appease them, the Chief decided that the officer had suffered too much psychological trauma after being shot, and could no longer continue his job in LE. He was forced to take early medical retirement.

                              Comment

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