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  • Learn To Fight

    Hello all,

    I'm currently Sponsored through my agency and starting week 10 of 20 in the Academy. They have been teaching us some good tactics through our PT/DT that we do 4 times a week but I'm a little unsatisfied with the actual tactics. Like I said, they are good and I understand that we are only learning the basics not advanced tactics but.... I was out with a friend who takes some fighting classes every once and a while and was a little unsettled when I find out that everything I've been taught, he has a way out of in no time. So now I want to go out and get as much training as I can. My question is: what are some of your recommendations on advanced training. I'm already talking to my Lt. about some things we have going on at our agency but I want more. I know some people train in Krav Maga, some in MMA, and many other things. One of the problems we are facing is that more and more people are going out and learning to fight while other sit around and do nothing. I would rather not be the one who goes up against someone and get my rear end kicked just because I didn't take the time to apply myself outside of my work hours. Any suggestions on training or DVDs or anything would be greatly appreciated.

    -Nick

  • #2
    nmahon1,

    Krav maga and Ed Parker Kenpo is the way to go. Krav maga is more in use and suggest it over anything because it takes realistic situations is more pragmatic. Ed Parker Kenpo is also a candidate because is basically American Street Fighting. The only problem with Kenpo is the lack of ground fighting techniques which where Krav maga comes in.

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    • #3
      Thanks for your advice Raiden. I've never heard of Ed Parker Kenpo before. I'll look that up. I'm going to try and find some DVDs too just so I can spend time with those too. I'm trying to find a good place around Orlando to train that works into my schedule.

      -Nick

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      • #4
        First off, I'm not a cop yet. But I've done some beginner Krav Maga training on and off. One time a lady brought her son who she said was an MMA fighter and nothing she learned in Krav Maga could work against him. To demonstrate his point the instructor volunteered to have the "MMA guy" put him in a rear naked choke. He gave the MMA dude a quick tap to the nuts and was back in fighting stance in a second.
        So my question is, have you asked your friend how he "gets out" of a nut shot? Does he regularly train against OC spray or Tazers? How are his body shot against someone wearing a vest? And how well does he do against 2 or 3 opponents with guns?
        I'm not saying you shouldn't get more training. But don't be too quick to dismiss what you're learning. My guess is half of what you're learning is what to do before the fight to maybe avoid the fight. Not to mention, you're not fighting for style points or pride. You're victory is survival. If the guy gets away, it's not that big a deal. If you're truly in deep sh**, you're gonna do what you can to live, up to and including shoot the dumbarse.
        My point with the story about the MMA guy in my class was that in a fight you won't have to play by the rules.
        "No one can make you feel like a turd without your permission." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nmahon1 View Post
          Thanks for your advice Raiden. I've never heard of Ed Parker Kenpo before. I'll look that up. I'm going to try and find some DVDs too just so I can spend time with those too. I'm trying to find a good place around Orlando to train that works into my schedule.

          -Nick
          Go for it! Most places give a LEO discount too. I'm waiting til the academy starts to go back to Krav Maga for the 15% discount. The place I go even gives a free LEO only class once a week.
          "No one can make you feel like a turd without your permission." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by adeutch View Post
            First off, I'm not a cop yet. But I've done some beginner Krav Maga training on and off. One time a lady brought her son who she said was an MMA fighter and nothing she learned in Krav Maga could work against him. To demonstrate his point the instructor volunteered to have the "MMA guy" put him in a rear naked choke. He gave the MMA dude a quick tap to the nuts and was back in fighting stance in a second.
            So my question is, have you asked your friend how he "gets out" of a nut shot? Does he regularly train against OC spray or Tazers? How are his body shot against someone wearing a vest? And how well does he do against 2 or 3 opponents with guns?
            I'm not saying you shouldn't get more training. But don't be too quick to dismiss what you're learning. My guess is half of what you're learning is what to do before the fight to maybe avoid the fight. Not to mention, you're not fighting for style points or pride. You're victory is survival. If the guy gets away, it's not that big a deal. If you're truly in deep sh**, you're gonna do what you can to live, up to and including shoot the dumbarse.
            My point with the story about the MMA guy in my class was that in a fight you won't have to play by the rules.
            Ha. Absolutely. I'm not so much dismissing it because they are just showing us the basic principles and I understand that. They just don't show much on ground fighting because they try to emphasize not getting on the ground. Which is understandable and always a goal, I just want to be ready for the time it ends up on the ground. We're looking at about a 7 minute response time for backup so I don't want to rely to heavily on having 2 to 3 guys on the 1. If I do have that all the better though ha. Thanks Adeutch.

            -Nick

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            • #7
              Originally posted by nmahon1 View Post
              Ha. Absolutely. I'm not so much dismissing it because they are just showing us the basic principles and I understand that. They just don't show much on ground fighting because they try to emphasize not getting on the ground. Which is understandable and always a goal, I just want to be ready for the time it ends up on the ground. We're looking at about a 7 minute response time for backup so I don't want to rely to heavily on having 2 to 3 guys on the 1. If I do have that all the better though ha. Thanks Adeutch.

              -Nick
              O.k., I understand. I don't know a damn thing about groundwork. I hope to learn some when I sign up for an MMA class and take the belt test to get out of beginner Krav Maga.
              7 min. response time! Yikes. I guess there's parts of sectors at the PD I want to work for that might have a 5 min. or more response time. For the most part though, backup is very near by. On a ride along I noticed there was hardly ever even a minor traffic stop without back up.
              I really like the ride along officer's advice to me on confrontations. He said he avoids most fights by never showing his hand until he has to. That is, when he's first on a call and makes contact with an aggressive person he's super friendly. He's that guy's buddy. But as soon as another officer or two arrives (and assuming the guy is still defiant) he puts his gloves on and no more mr. nice guy. Smart, considering he's not the biggest guy. But he's not afraid to go hands on when it makes sense to.
              "No one can make you feel like a turd without your permission." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

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              • #8
                Just keep in mind EVERY fight you have while on duty will end up on the ground. While some MMA style fighting is useful for police work. We aren't looking to tap someone out. I think Krav Mago style fighting is most useful for Police Work.

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                • #9
                  Not all fights end up on the ground, and if you're solo and there's more than one opponent, you can't afford to have it happen. All fighters should be able to fight on the ground, but only some should try to bring a fight to the ground, and those should not do so in all situations. Every fighter should try to be able to address the tactics and capabilities presented by every kind of opponent.

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                  • #10
                    Yeah I have the training in Krav maga. But, guess what, if I am faced with a 3 on 1; I ain't fighting without my tools. Taser, OC, ASP, or if I am really threatened and there is no alternative, I turn it into a 3 on 3 with my boys Smith & Wesson.

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                    • #11
                      nmahon1,
                      first of all, congrats in your academy and starting your career in Law Enforcement arena.
                      When I took my defensive tactics, it involved minimal amount of movements and training and ultimately, you are responsible for your own safety and developing skills.

                      Since I was a young child, I was exposed to Judo, Taekwondo, Hapkido and few others. It really has helped me in my field of work.

                      Talk to your instructors and fellow officers and see what's available in your area.

                      Good luck!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Monty Ealerman View Post
                        Not all fights end up on the ground, and if you're solo and there's more than one opponent, you can't afford to have it happen. All fighters should be able to fight on the ground, but only some should try to bring a fight to the ground, and those should not do so in all situations. Every fighter should try to be able to address the tactics and capabilities presented by every kind of opponent.

                        Curious, How many fights as a cop have you had that have not ended up on the ground? The only fights I have ever had where it didn't end up on the ground is when we both got a few punches in then we went into foot pursuit, which when caught ended on the ground.

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                        • #13
                          Practice with the baton a lot and become as proficient and effective with it as possible. The baton is a fantastic way to end a lot of fights.
                          Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                          I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

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                          • #14
                            Agreed. A lot of people let their baton skills slip, and thats a big mistake. Being able to apply joint shattering, bone fracturing force with precision is an excellent way to end fights quickly.

                            Krav Maga is great. Fast, efficient, violent force applied with precision. Excellent for taking down attackers in a quick and effective manner.

                            Something that shouldn't be forgotten is excellent personal fitness. It does you no good to become an excellent fighter if your going to tire out before your enemy does. Being able to keep up & excel physically is just as important - you could be the best fighter in the world, but if you can't breathe or move your muscles, your toast.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Feb2nd1979 View Post
                              Curious, How many fights as a cop have you had that have not ended up on the ground? The only fights I have ever had where it didn't end up on the ground is when we both got a few punches in then we went into foot pursuit, which when caught ended on the ground.
                              Just so you know, I'm not regular police, and haven't made many arrests. In most of my resister arrests, the arrestee has gone to the ground, and in about half of those instances I've gone to the ground too. Last time I had a foot pursuit, the guy went to the ground after about a half-mile due to exhaustion, and I didn't have to go to the ground.

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