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  • That Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by OFC Dave Speed View Post
    I am sure that will be your attitude right up until your "high quality" floor mats get stuck under the accelerator and kill you.
    At least they came standard and I didn't have to pay extra ........

    Leave a comment:


  • OFC Dave Speed
    replied
    Originally posted by That Guy View Post
    I much rather give my $$ to the guy on the line then the CEO who takes home a million dollar severance package when he gets fired. I buy American when I know it lasts. Where were these high quality vehicles 20 or even 10 years ago?
    I would buy once a quality product is there and has constantly shown its worth. I have owned Fords, Dodges, Chevys, Volkswagons, Toyotas, and Hondas in my lifetime and Honda and Toyota always preformed. The issue isnt taking a model already made its developing one.
    The quality issue is a thread on its own. My loyalty stands with brands that preform like Cutco knives. Pricey yes but a forever guarantee can't be beat! AWD would be perfect for up here.
    I am sure that will be your attitude right up until your "high quality" floor mats get stuck under the accelerator and kill you.

    Leave a comment:


  • kc12
    replied
    The difference between an American car company and a foreign manufacturer building cars here is where the profit goes. An American car company all of the profit comes back here. Not so with a foreign company.

    Leave a comment:


  • Benno
    replied
    We use the Toyota Camry here in NSW, Australia. Personally I think for a four cylinder they are a great car. The six cylinder Aurion is also used by the Highway Patrol in QLD, Australia, and has 260 odd horsepower.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • ICEAGENT
    replied
    Originally posted by eaglegrad View Post
    Not true. Ford, for example, has 4 cars (sold in America) that are assembled out of the US. Fusion- Hermosillo, Mexico, Edge and Flex- Oakville, Ontario, Crown Vic- St. Thomas, Ontario (I didn't count the cars like the Mercury Milan and Lincoln Town Car with their counterparts, the Fusion and Crown Viv even though they are assembled in the same place). The other 12 are assembled right here in the US. Sure, some of the same cars assembled here are also assembled overseas, but those aren't sold here.



    Actually I can, and I provided the links for proof.
    I'm confused, the Fusion is assembled in Mexico, so that means Mexican workers are benefiting from buying the Fusion, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • roadrenegade
    replied
    Originally posted by VA Dutch View Post

    As for the "Buy American" view out there......that poses a dilemma. What type of vehicle is more American, a Toyota assembled here or a Dodge assembled in Mexico? Toyota has factories here in the USA where they employ US workers to build the Camry, Corolla, Tundra and Tacoma. The "all American" Jeep Grand Cherokee & Dodge Ram trucks are hecho en mexico.



    The line between 'domestic' and 'import' has grown quite blurry lately.


    P.S. Kentucky (where the Camry has been made for years) used to have some marked Camry sedans on the road with their state police troopers. Never saw one myself, but did see a picture of one in an automotive magazine.
    I don't know about the rest of the vehicles you mention, but Dodge Rams are not "hecho en mexico". They are assembled in St. Louis, MO and in a new plant they opened recently in Warren, MI. Now some of the parts may be built or fabricated in Mexico. I just don't know about that.

    Leave a comment:


  • eaglegrad
    replied
    Originally posted by ICEAGENT View Post
    It does matter where the car is assembled because if it is assembled in the U.S. (like many supposed foreign cars) that is Americans doing the work. If it is assembled in a foreign country (like many supposed American cars) that is foreigners doing the work.
    Not true. Ford, for example, has 4 cars (sold in America) that are assembled out of the US. Fusion- Hermosillo, Mexico, Edge and Flex- Oakville, Ontario, Crown Vic- St. Thomas, Ontario (I didn't count the cars like the Mercury Milan and Lincoln Town Car with their counterparts, the Fusion and Crown Viv even though they are assembled in the same place). The other 12 are assembled right here in the US. Sure, some of the same cars assembled here are also assembled overseas, but those aren't sold here.

    Originally posted by ICEAGENT View Post
    You can't just broadly say any car with a Ford, GM or Dodge nameplate must have involved more American workers than any car with a foreign nameplate. If you are really concerned about maximizing the American worker element, you have to look at the individual make and model and find out exactly where the parts came from and where it was assembled.
    Actually I can, and I provided the links for proof.

    Leave a comment:


  • ICEAGENT
    replied
    Originally posted by eaglegrad View Post

    I'll reiterate this again. It doesn't matter where the car is assembled. The majority of the parts for the American car companies are made in America, thus making them more American. More American labor and more American hands were used in making the whole of the car.
    It does matter where the car is assembled because if it is assembled in the U.S. (like many supposed foreign cars) that is Americans doing the work. If it is assembled in a foreign country (like many supposed American cars) that is foreigners doing the work.

    You can't just broadly say any car with a Ford, GM or Dodge nameplate must have involved more American workers than any car with a foreign nameplate. If you are really concerned about maximizing the American worker element, you have to look at the individual make and model and find out exactly where the parts came from and where it was assembled.

    Personally, I would never buy any GM or Chrysler product due to the bailout money. I give Ford credit for not taking the money, but I have been driving Hondas for my entire adult life and I don't plan on changing. Conversely, every G-ride I've been issued has been either a Ford or a Chrysler and they have all been pieces of crap.
    Last edited by ICEAGENT; 11-15-2009, 09:23 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • eaglegrad
    replied
    Originally posted by ICEAGENT View Post
    I think buying whatever car I damn well please is more American than buying an inferior product simply because it is assembled here or if more of the parts are made here.

    Besides, as someone else pointed out, you can buy an "American" car assembled foreign and a "foreign" car assembled here, so how do you really know what you are buying. Plus, buying imports helps the government as customs duties are a major source of revenue.
    Yes, buying whatever you want is very American. But I said buying an American made product is more PATRIOTIC. I didn't say anything about buying foreign cars being un-American. Are you saying that's it's not more patriotic to support more American workers than foreign workers?

    I'll reiterate this again. It doesn't matter where the car is assembled. The majority of the parts for the American car companies are made in America, thus making them more American. More American labor and more American hands were used in making the whole of the car. That is not true of the foreign car companies. If you'd like to see where each style of car is assembled, follow the links I provided and click on the assembly plants. You can also see how many parts plants there are, where they are located, and what they produce. If you want to see where an individual car was assembled, you can always look on the sticker under the hood.

    Buying American made products will increase government revenue more than importing. More people buy American products= Higher demand for American made products= More Americans going back to work= More income tax revenue for the government + More tax revenue from the money the workers who will put more money back into the economy. The largest percentage of government revenue does come from individual income taxes.
    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/brief...rs/revenue.cfm

    Leave a comment:


  • ICEAGENT
    replied
    Originally posted by eaglegrad View Post
    However, if you don't, I think it's unpatriotic to not support American made products when you can. Buying foreign made goods amounts to giving away our countries wealth. Buy American.
    I think buying whatever car I damn well please is more American than buying an inferior product simply because it is assembled here or if more of the parts are made here.

    Besides, as someone else pointed out, you can buy an "American" car assembled foreign and a "foreign" car assembled here, so how do you really know what you are buying. Plus, buying imports helps the government as customs duties are a major source of revenue.

    Leave a comment:


  • eaglegrad
    replied
    Originally posted by VA Dutch View Post

    As for the "Buy American" view out there......that poses a dilemma. What type of vehicle is more American, a Toyota assembled here or a Dodge assembled in Mexico? Toyota has factories here in the USA where they employ US workers to build the Camry, Corolla, Tundra and Tacoma. The "all American" Jeep Grand Cherokee & Dodge Ram trucks are hecho en mexico.



    The line between 'domestic' and 'import' has grown quite blurry lately.


    P.S. Kentucky (where the Camry has been made for years) used to have some marked Camry sedans on the road with their state police troopers. Never saw one myself, but did see a picture of one in an automotive magazine.
    In America:
    GM: 41 Plants (9 Assembly Plants, 32 Parts Plants)
    http://www.gmdynamic.com/company/gma...acilities/list
    Ford: 29 Plants (12 Assembly Plants, 17 Parts Plants)
    http://media.ford.com/plants.cfm?reg...&make_id=trust
    Toyota: 14 Plants (12 Assembly Plants, 4 Parts Plants - they do a little of both at some plants)
    http://www.toyota.com/about/our_busi...manufacturing/
    Honda: 4 Plants (Their plants do a little of both)
    http://www.ohio.honda.com/manufacturing/index.cfm

    I think its pretty clear what's more American. Mind you, all companies will bring in parts from outside the country, but clearly Ford and GM make far more parts in the US, making their cars far more American. Yeah, Toyota has quite a few assembly plants in the US, but that doesn't make the car American made. When you buy a grill and you have to assemble it, that doesn't mean its made in your garage.

    Assembly plants, like the one in Kentucky, brings the parts made from different places (mostly overseas) and puts it together. Just like putting the grill together in your garage, that does not mean it's made in Kentucky.

    I will say, if you live in an area where there is a Toyota or Honda plant, I have no problem with you buying one of those brands. Its supporting your local economy. However, if you don't, I think it's unpatriotic to not support American made products when you can. Buying foreign made goods amounts to giving away our countries wealth. Buy American.
    Last edited by eaglegrad; 11-15-2009, 03:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • VA Dutch
    replied

    As for the "Buy American" view out there......that poses a dilemma. What type of vehicle is more American, a Toyota assembled here or a Dodge assembled in Mexico? Toyota has factories here in the USA where they employ US workers to build the Camry, Corolla, Tundra and Tacoma. The "all American" Jeep Grand Cherokee & Dodge Ram trucks are hecho en mexico.



    The line between 'domestic' and 'import' has grown quite blurry lately.


    P.S. Kentucky (where the Camry has been made for years) used to have some marked Camry sedans on the road with their state police troopers. Never saw one myself, but did see a picture of one in an automotive magazine.

    Leave a comment:


  • JSD73
    replied
    Originally posted by Unit453 View Post
    I'd like to see an American product. I doubt Toyota could build anything that could handle the abuse of day to day patrol and not fall into a million pieces.

    Run a Camry or Avalon for 100k miles and run it hard and lets see how well it hold up.
    Hmm, did that. Had a 1989 Toyota Camry, ran it hard, ran it often, ran it to 225,000 miles before I sold it. The only thing that went kaput was the A/C at 120,000 miles. I was on patrol one day and saw 'my' car and pulled up next to the girl driving it. I told her it was my old car and asked how many miles it had on it....running strong at 235,000, still no A/C.

    We run the hell out of our CVs, 12 hours per day, and they fall apart just fine...they are no more sturdy than any other car that could be 'built' for police purposes.

    Leave a comment:


  • That Guy
    replied
    I do have a subscription and they do list the top cars as Toyota, Honda, and Subaru. Ask any of the owners and they will tell you the same. This years 2009 Car mag did list several American cars as "top picks" for the year. They also list reliability on used cars and Americans fall behind. I have been an avid reader and they are spot on with a lot of stuff and I have yet to be disappointed with their ratings and I take them into consideration on ALL products they test. Most of the foreign car data is also complied by Motor Trend.......

    They did have an issue several years ago which they said they corrected due to a rushed report but I don't recall what the product was. CR works for me and until I buy something that doesn't work then I will think twice.

    Leave a comment:


  • kc12
    replied
    Consumer Reports lost all creditability with me when they came out and admitted they rarely tested Toyota's vehicles because their quality was so high. They were making recommendations based on the reputation of the company not on the facts of the vehicle. They said they were going to stop doing this, but that one incident raised one serious question, what else are they fudging on.

    I read an article the other day co-opted from CR that was supposedly ranking cars based on reliability and providing recommendations, but surprisingly they were unable to test certain cars. The cars were still listed based on other company's research but did not received a CR recommendation. Personally I would have held the article or simply listed the cars at the end of the section they belong to stating the vehicles were not tested and no information would be included. If the manufacturers want their cars listed (free advertising and promotion) then they would provide the vehicles for comparison. Conversely if the reporter/editor/photographer can't provide information about all of the cars in a timely manner don't publish an incomplete report.

    Leave a comment:

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