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For those who still believe all CCW permit holders are "good guys"

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  • #16
    Originally posted by DAL View Post
    I read that some cities in Vermont have local laws prohibiting or regulating the carrying of handguns.
    Wrong. If you have any proof of this I'd love to see it.

    There are 48 states with some sort of ccw permit, most of those are "shall-issue". The ccw law in Indiana isn't so unique.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by velobard View Post
      Wrong. If you have any proof of this I'd love to see it.
      Time for you to provide your exhaustive search of all local Vermont gun laws.

      http://www.dps.state.vt.us/vtsp/faq1.html#VermontGun

      Vermont Gun Laws

      We get many requests regarding gun laws in Vermont. For information on this subject we refer you to the Vermont Attorney General's Office for a relatively comprehensive list of the laws pertaining to guns in Vermont.

      Please be aware that Vermont does not at this time require or issue gun permits. Some Vermont towns and cities do have local ordinances, so if you are planning on visiting, it would be wise to contact the local police chief to find information pertaining to local information.
      Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by velobard View Post
        There are 48 states with some sort of ccw permit, most of those are "shall-issue". The ccw law in Indiana isn't so unique.
        "So unique" is an oxymoron. Each state's shall-issue law is unique, and Indiana's seems to be rather weak in its standards and checks.
        Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
        Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #19
          Well, let's see--if the only crime ever committed with a registered full-auto weapon was committed by a police officer, should we blame
          a) The gun
          b) Police officers
          c) Gun owners in general
          d) All of the above
          e) None of the above
          Anyone trying to answer 'a' and 'c' is probably a member of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Guns, Period.

          All sarcasm aside, what the article suggests to me is that Indiana SP needs to get with the program as far as issuing CCW permits.
          --
          Capital Punishment means never having to say "you again?"

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by DAL View Post
            Time for you to provide your exhaustive search of all local Vermont gun laws.

            http://www.dps.state.vt.us/vtsp/faq1.html#VermontGun

            Vermont Gun Laws

            We get many requests regarding gun laws in Vermont. For information on this subject we refer you to the Vermont Attorney General's Office for a relatively comprehensive list of the laws pertaining to guns in Vermont.

            Please be aware that Vermont does not at this time require or issue gun permits. Some Vermont towns and cities do have local ordinances, so if you are planning on visiting, it would be wise to contact the local police chief to find information pertaining to local information.
            Nice and vague.

            I'm sure you're bound to love this source, but if you bother looking at all you'll find it validated by a number of sources. I'm quoting Wikipedia because in this case it's nice and concise.
            Vermont has very few gun control laws. Gun dealers are required to keep a record of all handgun sales. It is illegal to carry a gun on school property or in a courthouse. State law preempts local governments from regulating the possession, ownership, transfer, carrying, registration or licensing of firearms.[216]

            The term "Vermont Carry" is used by gun rights advocates to refer to allowing citizens to carry a firearm concealed or openly without any sort of permit requirement. Vermont law does not distinguish between residents and non-residents of the state; both have the same right to carry while in Vermont.

            The Vermont constitution of 1793, based partly on the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights, guarantees certain freedoms and rights to the citizens: "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State — and as standing armies in time of peace are dangerous to liberty, they ought not to be kept up; and that the military should be kept under strict subordination to and governed by the civil power."[217]
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law...state)#Vermont

            There's also this:
            24 V.S.A. § 2295. Authority of municipal and county governments to regulate firearms, ammunition,
            hunting, fishing and trapping
            Except as otherwise provided by law, no town, city or incorporated village, by ordinance, resolution or other
            enactment, shall directly regulate hunting, fishing and trapping or the possession, ownership, transportation,
            transfer, sale, purchase, carrying, licensing or registration of traps, firearms, ammunition or components of
            firearms or ammunition. This section shall not limit the powers conferred upon a town, city or incorporated
            village under section 2291(8) of this title. The provisions of this section shall supersede any inconsistent
            provisions of a municipal charter.
            (Added 1987, No. 178 (Adj. Sess.), eff. May 9, 1988.)
            http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/vermont.pdf
            Last edited by velobard; 10-12-2009, 08:47 PM.

            Comment


            • #21
              First of all, I asserted: "I read that some cities in Vermont have local laws prohibiting or regulating the carrying of handguns." The source I cited supports this assertion -- i.e., that I read what I said I read.

              Second, Wikipedia is a less reliable source than the state police website.

              Third, you have not proved your point because the statute you quote expressly states: "This section shall not limit the powers conferred upon a town, city or incorporated village under section 2291(8) of this title." We are left in the dark about what those powers are.
              Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
              Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by DAL View Post
                "So unique" is an oxymoron. Each state's shall-issue law is unique, and Indiana's seems to be rather weak in its standards and checks.
                You base this on what? As a civilian with a ccw I have researched a number of other states' ccw laws. I am responsible for abiding by their laws when I travel, I have investigated the factors involved with states that issue permits to residents other states, and the laws that were researched when the Missouri ccw was written, and the differences in the law when I considered moving. Indiana ccw law has been strongly considered as a number of other states (including Missouri) wrote their laws.

                Comment


                • #23
                  First of all, you did not disprove what I said, because I said what I read.

                  Second, Wikipedia is not an authoritative source, and I would be less inclined to rely upon it than the State Police.

                  Third, the statute you quote contains an express qualification as to powers conferred under another section.

                  BUT THE MORE IMPORTANT POINT IS: WHO CARES? Is Indiana Vermont? Are conditions the same in Indiana as in Vermont?
                  Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                  Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by velobard View Post
                    You base this on what? As a civilian with a ccw I have researched a number of other states' ccw laws. I am responsible for abiding by their laws when I travel, I have investigated the factors involved with states that issue permits to residents other states, and the laws that were researched when the Missouri ccw was written, and the differences in the law when I considered moving. Indiana ccw law has been strongly considered as a number of other states (including Missouri) wrote their laws.
                    I base my assertion that "so unique" is an oxymoron on Webster's Third New International Dictionary. "Unique" is an unqualifiable adjective. "Unique" means "being the only one : SOLE" or "being without a like or equal : single in kind or excellence". Thus, something is either unique or it isn't.

                    I base my assertion that the laws in the various states on my review of several websites, such as usacarry.org, and its predecessor site that describe the gun laws in different states. I also looked at several states' websites regarding their implementation and interpretation of H.R. 218, and those websites often discussed their respective state's CCW laws. And your description of what you did shows nothing to indicate that you have compared the law in Indiana to the laws of other states.

                    Apart from the criteria for issuance, there is a lot of variation among states in what agency is responsible for issuing permits and monitoring their holders, the frequency with which they must be renewed, the fees, the background checks, what weapons are covered, and whether proof of proficiency and firearms qualification are required.

                    If the details of a state's CCW law are a major factor in your decision about where to live, then you have a very strange psyche indeed.
                    Last edited by DAL; 10-12-2009, 10:01 PM.
                    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I saw the questions for buying a gun, or maybe it was for a CCW permit. One of the questions was "Are you a legal citizen of the United States" and then another was something like "Do you have any active felony warrants" LMAO.

                      Comment

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