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Undercover investigation shows how criminals buy guns at gun shows

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  • #16
    Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
    Michael Bloomberg? Hardly the impartial player here. Little Mikey is a known and dedicated anti-gun wonk. He has financial and social ties to George Seros, the millionaire anti-gun wonk who would have us all be sheep, and who actively pushes the UN, One World Government Agenda. The basic inconsistancy here is, Bloomberg and those of his persuasion are protected by platoons of armed police, live in gated communities, and share few of the concerns of us common folks..
    Why Thank you Sarge Of 20+ years as a LEO....... May I define Bloomberg in two words ?

    COMMIE HYPOCRITE
    Originally posted by mookster
    Sully, usually I hafta glance over your posts cuz my brain would have issues with the imagery you portray, however with that one I get it. I agree one hundred percent with ya.
    Originally posted by CityCopDC
    I swear to god you are not human. I know a rogue VI when I see one.
    Originally posted by OfficerDotCom
    I think no one is probably happier than Sully and I that we ARE NOT the same person.(seriously thanking God for that one).
    -Frank




    Old Physicists neva' die, they just hop on a horsey and fly away inta' an infinitely massive black ho ...

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    • #17
      Last year at Livingston Montana, there was a gun show there. I was told of a guy who asked several different vendors to sell outside the grounds, person to person so that the BATF form 4494 was bypassed. To their credit, not one would do it. Once the word got around, no one would sell to him anything for any reason.

      This is why I seriously doubt Bloomberg's stats. Most of the venders at these shows are very law compliant. The few that aren't, don't do it long before they are caught. And person to person, I don't know a single person that would knowingly sell to someone they thought was a felon or otherwise not eligible. No one wants to be on the 6 o'clock news as the idiot that sold the guns that were used to kill people.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by willbird View Post
        The EASIEST way to cover yourself if your really worried, is to ONLY sell to people who have your states CHL/CCW/CPL. That weeds out almost anybody who is prohibited from buying or owning a gun.

        It is an important fact to remember however that SOME people cannot legally buy from an FFL dealer, but they MAY legally buy from a private party. One example of this is people between 18 and 21 in states that allow them to own handguns. Federal law prohibits an FFL from selling to them, but a private party may legally do so.

        "I'm not sure I can pass a background check" is NOT saying you are a prohibited person.

        Bill
        Also, some states like Montana return the right to own a firearm as soon as the felon has done his time, paid the fine, and is released from DOC restraints. So this person can legally buy a firearm in Montana even though he would not pass the BATF background check for several months. Most other states have some sort of firearm restoration process the ex-felon must go through, but not Montana. Montana crimes only.
        Last edited by montanahogrider; 10-08-2009, 06:33 AM.

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        • #19
          The form used to buy a firearm is a 4473 ;-).

          Also if the buyer says "I must be a crackhead to pay this much for an AR-15" the sale would be just as shaky legally as the ones the bloombirds cooked up.

          hey I wonder if the people who made the tapes can be sued like Acorn is suing the people that made tapes about them suborning prostitution ?


          Bill
          Last edited by willbird; 10-08-2009, 07:41 AM.
          Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

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          • #20
            The private sellers should be aware of gun laws there's only about 20,000 of them.

            Give me a brake!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by willbird View Post
              The EASIEST way to cover yourself if your really worried, is to ONLY sell to people who have your states CHL/CCW/CPL. That weeds out almost anybody who is prohibited from buying or owning a gun.

              It is an important fact to remember however that SOME people cannot legally buy from an FFL dealer, but they MAY legally buy from a private party. One example of this is people between 18 and 21 in states that allow them to own handguns. Federal law prohibits an FFL from selling to them, but a private party may legally do so.

              "I'm not sure I can pass a background check" is NOT saying you are a prohibited person.

              Bill
              That's sounds good until you have a state that doesn't require one or here in Ohio how many private sellers know that when I do my LEOSA qualification they run check each year.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by big mak attack View Post
                when did the Mayor of NY city have jurisdiction to conduct investigations in Nevada, Ohio, and Tennessee
                Doesn't appear to be a criminal investigation. Anyone could do that.
                For the cops out there: You are an adult. If you want to write someone, write them. If you don't want to write someone, then don't write them.

                "Jeff, you are the best cop on this board"-Anonymous Post

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by dadyswat View Post
                  That's sounds good until you have a state that doesn't require one or here in Ohio how many private sellers know that when I do my LEOSA qualification they run check each year.
                  I live in Ohio too, and the fact that you passed a check last week, or last month does not mean you are not prohibited today :-). I am also an FFL so I know how the NICS check system works, it can flag people for things that happened fairly recently.

                  I am 100% in favor of private parties being able to sell their property to others with no govt involvement. If I saw your Ohio DL and you did not appear to be a meth head you would be good to buy a gun from me as an individual. If you had an Ohio CHL I would feel even better, IMHO every Ohio gun owner should have an Ohio CHL whether you need it or not, all you would have to do is apply, you have already met the educational requirements, many sherrifs even do it free for LE.

                  Bill
                  Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by willbird View Post
                    I live in Ohio too, and the fact that you passed a check last week, or last month does not mean you are not prohibited today :-). I am also an FFL so I know how the NICS check system works, it can flag people for things that happened fairly recently.

                    I am 100% in favor of private parties being able to sell their property to others with no govt involvement. If I saw your Ohio DL and you did not appear to be a meth head you would be good to buy a gun from me as an individual. If you had an Ohio CHL I would feel even better, IMHO every Ohio gun owner should have an Ohio CHL whether you need it or not, all you would have to do is apply, you have already met the educational requirements, many sherrifs even do it free for LE.

                    Bill
                    Don't get me wrong here I don't want the government involved any more than they are. I recall reading there are some 20,000 firearms laws nationally and we don't need any more. Bloomingidiot only wants to amke an issue to more gun control. It is all all about CONTROL.
                    Last edited by dadyswat; 10-08-2009, 03:53 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Some of you all are apparently drinking the kool-aid. Ever hear of the 2nd amendment? There are those out there who are actively seeking to abolish it. Bloomberg is one of them!

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                      • #26
                        I'd like to see a video of how criminals buy guns on the streets of New York.
                        Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                        Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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                        • #27
                          This would be news except everyone knows it. There is a reason why there are u/c officers/agents from 7463523734 agencies tripping over each other at gun shows.
                          "You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall... I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it."

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                          • #28
                            Gun shows here in Colorado; or those that I have been to for that matter. Have a Place in the center set up that runs background checks. You cannot sell a gun to someone unless they pass the check at the central station.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Her's another thought, I believe most of us as Cops can agree on. While being an enthusiastic supporter of the 2nd Ammendement, I can appreciate the feelings of someone who doesn't wish to own a firearm. I totally support that individual in his right NOT to own a firearm, should that be his choice. Then, you have people like Little Mickey, Bill and Hillary Clinton, others, who not only don't like firearms , but feel they have the right to impose that view on us. There is a noticeable double standard at work here as. these figures, anti-gun as they are, are protected by armed police everywhere they go.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Follow-up to this story: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010...arns_mike.html

                                West Virginia has a message for Mayor Bloomberg: Don't come 'round here to buy our guns.

                                A legislator there wants to ban the type of undercover stings that Bloomberg has used to showcase illegal gun sales in other states - and throw the mayor's investigators in jail if necessary.

                                "It's for us to handle within our own borders," said state Sen. Jeffrey Kessler, who is running for governor in 2012. "We jealously guard our gun rights, and we're vocal advocates for the Second Amendment."

                                He calls his proposal the "Bloomberg bill" - a reflection of how Bloomberg's anti-gun crusade has made him public enemy No. 1 to gun lovers.

                                The mayor has spent millions hiring private investigators to videotape gun dealers seemingly violating federal law - selling weapons to people who say they couldn't pass a background check, or who appear to be straw purchasers on behalf of others.

                                "It may be good for getting headlines, but it may well be compromising actual law enforcement activities," Kessler said. "He's not a federal law enforcement officer."

                                Bloomberg has defended the stings as necessary to keep out-of-state guns from ending up on New York streets and in the hands of criminals.

                                He has put the videos on YouTube and mailed copies to Congress. A spokesman refused to say whether more are in progress.

                                Kessler's bill would ban those stings, making a felon out of anyone who "persuades, encourages or entices" a gun dealer to make an illegal sale.

                                "It's not appropriate for any other law enforcement, absent the feds, to engage in gun buys - or try to entrap with gun buys - within our borders," Kessler said.

                                "If there are violations, they should be investigated by clearly recognized law enforcement in our state, rather than by bringing in hired goons to do it."

                                Bloomberg spokesman Jason Post fired right back, saying the mayor won't stop his fight.

                                "This legislation gets it exactly backward. The city has never broken the law, but we have caught unscrupulous gun dealers selling in violation of federal law," Post said.

                                "Because 90% of guns used in crimes in New York City come from out of state, we have been forced to go outside our own borders to keep New Yorkers safe."

                                Kessler said he introduced the bill after the National Rifle Association told him of similar proposals in other states. The NRA didn't return a call for comment, but Kessler said he expects his bill to become law.

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