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  • Undercover investigation shows how criminals buy guns at gun shows

    NEW YORK CITY MAYOR BLOOMBERG ANNOUNCES RESULTS OF UNDERCOVER INVESTIGATION INTO ILLEGAL SALES OF FIREARMS AT GUN SHOWS

    74% of Gun Show Sellers Failed the Undercover Integrity Test

    Online Undercover Video Available at www.nyc.gov/gunshow

    Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg today announced the results of a wide-ranging undercover investigation by the City of New York into illegal gun sales. The investigation, which covered seven gun shows in three states, proves on video how easy it is for criminals to buy firearms at gun shows. 35 of 47 gun sellers sold to people who said either they probably could not pass a background check or to apparent “straw purchasers.” The videos will be available on www.nyc.gov/gunshow. The accompanying report, Gun Show Undercover, also available online, documents the extent of the gun show problem, the City’s investigative techniques, and offers recommendations on how illegal sales can be prevented.

    The undercover investigation sent professional investigators to seven gun shows in Nevada, Ohio, and Tennessee to determine whether sellers would engage in two types of illegal transactions. The first involves private sellers selling guns to people who they thought could not pass a federal background check. The second involves licensed dealers conducting illegal straw sales, which are sales made to accomplices posing as buyers in order to help the real buyer avoid a criminal background check.

    “The gun show loophole is a deadly serious problem – and this undercover operation exposes just how pervasive and serious it is,” said Mayor Bloomberg. “We are sending a copy of our detailed report Gun Show Undercover to every member of the United States Congress. We’ll work with Congressional leaders to pass legislation closing the gun show loophole. This is an issue that has nothing to do with the Second Amendment; it’s about keeping guns from criminals, plain and simple.”

    Private Sellers Exploited the Gun Show Loophole

    Even though private unlicensed sellers are not required to run background checks using the FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check system, it is a federal felony for them to sell guns to people they have reason to believe are prohibited purchasers (such as felons or the mentally ill). In purchases attempted on 30 private sellers, the undercover investigator showed interest in buying a gun by asking about stopping power or by dry-firing the weapon. After agreeing on a price, the undercover would indicate that he probably couldn’t pass a background check. At that point, the seller is required by law to refuse the sale – but only 11 out of 30 sellers did so. Investigators found private dealers who failed these integrity tests at every show, including two sellers who failed at multiple shows. In total, 19 of the 30 private sellers approached failed the integrity test.

    The 11 sellers who terminated the sale confirmed that private sellers know the law. As one seller in Columbus, Ohio, explained “I mean even as a private citizen, I’m kind of allowed a certain latitude, but once you say that [you can’t pass the background check], I’m kind of obligated not to….I think that’s what the rules are.”

    The investigation also revealed that some private sellers are in fact apparently “engaged in the business” of selling firearms without a federal license, in violation of the law. For example, one seller sold to investigators at three different gun shows and acknowledged selling 348 assault rifles in less than one year.
    “Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on.” - Robert F. Kennedy.

  • #2
    Hey! Nevada! That's my state! We're famous! I actually just read a press release in our local paper on this exact thing this morning.

    Comment


    • #3
      And Mayor Obvious spends thousands in taxpayer dollars on expenses and overtime to prove what many Feds and local officers are already aware of.

      If the money wasnt going into gun show enforcement before, do you really think the NY report is going to make dollars appear out of no where to mount an education and enforcement campaign?

      I frankly agree that gun shows are a vulnerability in appropriate law enforcement. I grow more concerned when we spend taxpayer dollars on trying to get legislation which potentially makes it more difficult to excersize basics like me selling a rifle to a friend, etc.

      Not sure where Mayor Bloomberg really intends to go with this one. 1 day splash in a few papers. Congratulations. With a city millions in deficit and billions in debt, I hope that money was worth it.
      Last edited by Oddball-Six; 10-07-2009, 04:50 PM.
      -------------------------------
      You can't fix stupid, but you can arrest it. - LINY

      "Their house, their rules. And when they get robbed, they can call 911 and ask them to send a hippie to protect them." - ateamer

      Comment


      • #4
        Michael Bloomberg? Hardly the impartial player here. Little Mikey is a known and dedicated anti-gun wonk. He has financial and social ties to George Seros, the millionaire anti-gun wonk who would have us all be sheep, and who actively pushes the UN, One World Government Agenda. The basic inconsistancy here is, Bloomberg and those of his persuasion are protected by platoons of armed police, live in gated communities, and share few of the concerns of us common folks..

        Comment


        • #5
          His stats don't jibe with the ATF stats or anyone else. This is a bunch of rigged BS he is using to get his anti-gun stance across. He should be run out of office on a rail.
          Free Deke O'Mally!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            I question how many private parties know all the laws. It's an easy sting.

            Knowing the game and the pain in the neck it is I would never get rid of any of my firearms without going through an FFL. I'd rather his neck be on the block.

            I cant even sell a motorcycle without it coming back to me (buyer not putting it in his name and running up parking tickets). Heck if I'm going to sell without an FFL in the mix.
            _____________
            "Corruptisima republica plurimae leges."

            "The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."
            - Cornelius Tacitus

            Comment


            • #7
              when did the Mayor of NY city have jurisdiction to conduct investigations in Nevada, Ohio, and Tennessee
              Democracy is worth dying for, because it's the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man.
              -Ronald Reagan

              Heroes may not be braver than anyone else. They're just braver five minutes longer.
              -Ronald Reagan

              Big Mak Attack AKA Big Mac Attack

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                Michael Bloomberg? Hardly the impartial player here. Little Mikey is a known and dedicated anti-gun wonk. He has financial and social ties to George Seros, the millionaire anti-gun wonk who would have us all be sheep, and who actively pushes the UN, One World Government Agenda. The basic inconsistancy here is, Bloomberg and those of his persuasion are protected by platoons of armed police, live in gated communities, and share few of the concerns of us common folks..
                What does this have to do investigation results? Are you assuming that because of his probable bias that all the facts in the investigation are incorrect?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by marcusindc View Post
                  What does this have to do investigation results? Are you assuming that because of his probable bias that all the facts in the investigation are incorrect?
                  The bias is NOT probable, it's tangible and evident. Certainly, there may be a small grain of truth in Bloomberg's investigation. Much propaganda has a minimal amount of truth in it. What does it have to do with investigation results? Everything!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ok so here's my question. I know the rule (now, previously I didn't) that I'm not supposed to sell a gun to someone whom I suspect to be a felon or mentally ill, but without them making ridiculous statements like "not sure I can pass the background" (not a very realistic scenario) how the hell am I supposed to know?
                    Seriously, the only reason I wanted to be a cop was so I could post anywhere on this forum.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not that I am a great Bloomberg fan....but you are discussing a civil matter....anyone who wants can check on the legal/illegal operation at any sort of "show". And Bloomberg has gotten a couple of gun dealers to settle with him on these gun sale lawsuits.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FiremanMike View Post
                        Ok so here's my question. I know the rule (now, previously I didn't) that I'm not supposed to sell a gun to someone whom I suspect to be a felon or mentally ill, but without them making ridiculous statements like "not sure I can pass the background" (not a very realistic scenario) how the hell am I supposed to know?
                        Apparently you're not, and it's unlikely a felon who actually wants to get a gun will make a statement like that.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dinosaur32 View Post
                          Not that I am a great Bloomberg fan....but you are discussing a civil matter....anyone who wants can check on the legal/illegal operation at any sort of "show". And Bloomberg has gotten a couple of gun dealers to settle with him on these gun sale lawsuits.
                          I understand the Civil Matter aspect. My simple point is that Michael Bloomberg is totally anti-gun. He doesn't want law abiding citizens to own a firearm. Yet, here he is protected by armed police. Not saying the protection provided by NYPD is improper, but simply that there's a whole lot of the old double standard at work here.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Idea: Someone makes a statement indicating they know/should know they're disqualified from buying a firearm, and the seller arranges for the would-be buyer to have a conversation with someone who can run a background check on them--via NCIC/III.
                            And any stories about "I'm doing an investigation for Mayor Bloomingidiot" will cut no ice until their identity is verified and their lack of criminal history, warrants, etc. is confirmed.

                            I think that's what those sellers should have done anyway, but maybe that's just me.
                            --
                            Capital Punishment means never having to say "you again?"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FiremanMike View Post
                              Ok so here's my question. I know the rule (now, previously I didn't) that I'm not supposed to sell a gun to someone whom I suspect to be a felon or mentally ill, but without them making ridiculous statements like "not sure I can pass the background" (not a very realistic scenario) how the hell am I supposed to know?
                              The EASIEST way to cover yourself if your really worried, is to ONLY sell to people who have your states CHL/CCW/CPL. That weeds out almost anybody who is prohibited from buying or owning a gun.

                              It is an important fact to remember however that SOME people cannot legally buy from an FFL dealer, but they MAY legally buy from a private party. One example of this is people between 18 and 21 in states that allow them to own handguns. Federal law prohibits an FFL from selling to them, but a private party may legally do so.

                              "I'm not sure I can pass a background check" is NOT saying you are a prohibited person.

                              Bill
                              Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

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