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Interesting Comparison between U.S. and Chinese Police Casulties

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  • Interesting Comparison between U.S. and Chinese Police Casulties

    By studying the website tracking U.S. police casulties----Offiers Down Memorial Page (http://www.odmp.org/)and its Chinese counterpart----Public Security Heroes and Martyrs(http://app.mps.gov.cn:8088/yinglie/index.jsp), I found some very stark contrasts between U.S and Chinese cops.

    I. For casulties in direct violent confrontation, most U.S. cops were killed by guns, while most Chinese cops were killed by knife (or other cold weapons).

    Reason: Chinese government exercises almost the strictest gun control policy in the world. Therefore, there are very few military weapons among the civilians, and thus the best weaponry for the civilian criminals is no better than daggers or kitchen knives.

    In the States, however, it is quite another story, with guns abundant among U.S. citizens.

    Typically, most U.S. cops killed by non-gun-related violence are usually correction officers, since the inmates attacking them can only use knife, club or even bare fists.

    Interestingly, in 1994, Benny Lee Lawson raided the Washington Police, killing two FBI agents and one local police detective. His weapon was a fully automatic MAC-11. The score is 1:3.

    Yet, in 2008, Yang Jia from Beijing raided a Shanghai Police building, killing 6 police officers and wounding another 4, as well as a private security guard. His weapon is nothing but a short knife. The score is 1:6.

    Why? 1:3 for a gun-toting killer, yet 1:6 for a "knife-toting" one?

    The answer is: there is a flip side of the coin----just because China has strict gun control and thus there are few guns in the hands of civilians, the Chinese police also has a very strict gun policy on its own officers.

    As a result, the Chinese cops (even including some field officers) are usually not armed.

    And the 6 officers killed by a single knife were all totally unarmed, despite the fact that most of them have either a SWAT or patrol background.

    Hence there comes the balance: the U.S citizens have guns, so the U.S. cops are well armed. The Chinese citizens have few guns (for those who have, the so called guns are usually shotguns for civilian use or simply primitive guns made out of civilian R&D), so Chinese cops are not well-armed.

    And, usually, when it comes to violent confrontation. The odds are usually----U.S cops with guns VS. U.S. criminals with guns, in contrast to Chinese unarmed cops VS. Chinese criminals with knives.

    You can justify yourself by saying that American police-criminal fight is more like a gunbattle movie, while Chinese police-criminal fight is more like an ancient martial arts film.

    Because I have something else to do, so I just stop here.

    I will come back later, with a second topic----why there are fewer detectives casulties in American than in China?

    汪若海
    Last edited by cncop; 09-24-2009, 10:20 PM.

  • #2
    Wow, 1:6 suspect with knife against police!

    Do-jeh-leh, (or is it Sheh-sheh?) for sharing that information, I look foward to hearing more.

    I met three Chinese SWAT officers while they stopped in Los Angeles between their assignments as U.N. Peacekeepers in Haiti. Nice guys. Spent a lot of money in the Los Angeles Police Academy store.

    You be safe, now!
    "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

    Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

    Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Kieth M. View Post
      Wow, 1:6 suspect with knife against police!

      Do-jeh-leh, (or is it Sheh-sheh?) for sharing that information, I look foward to hearing more.

      I met three Chinese SWAT officers while they stopped in Los Angeles between their assignments as U.N. Peacekeepers in Haiti. Nice guys. Spent a lot of money in the Los Angeles Police Academy store.

      You be safe, now!
      Haha.

      It is "xie xie" for "thank you."

      While actually, the Chinese "SWAT" officers you met may not be real tactical officers.

      That is to say, although their jobs in Haiti are the SWAT team or riot unit, these cops are usually not SWAT officers back in China.

      Many of them are actually from the Entrance and Exit Administration (part of the police, similar to U.S immigration and naturalization service), because the cops sent overseas are supposed to be able to speak foreign languages.

      Some of them are active-duty military, because they are from the Border Police, which is a totally military organization, though it is under the control of civilian police. Still, they are not SWAT guys, either. In nature, they are more like your Border Patrol agents or Coast Guards.

      And there are those guys who used to be Patrol or SWAT officers in China, but the number shall not be very large, because most Chinese SWAT cops cannot speak foreign languages and, more awkwardly, they are not "formal" police officers, but merely auxiliary cops without any law enforcement powers, usually not considered as "real cops'. They will only work with the police for around 5 years by contract, and no one older than 30 will be further hired by the police (the case in most tier-2 and tier-3 Chinese cities and all counties).

      The U.S police cut SWAT budget by forming "part-time" SWAT, while the Chinese police achieve the same goal through hiring auxiliary cops.

      And for the score of 1:6 with a knife, that is really surprising to most people.

      Before that guy, one Chinese fugitive armed with one pistol and some grenades killed 5 and wounded 6 in a very brief encounter with the police.

      It is worthy of mentioning because the ones he killed are not only regular police officers, but also Armed Police officers and soldiers, who are military personnel in fact, similar to the French Gendarms or Italian Carabinieri. And before this incident, he also shot a patrol officer dead in another city.

      Why is this guy so tough?

      Because he used to be a professional athlete for shooting. Almost all cops killed by him were shot in the head accurately.

      Wish all cops safe...
      Last edited by cncop; 09-24-2009, 10:44 PM.

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      • #4
        Perhaps they used "SWAT" to either impress me, or make their explanation easier. They were very taken with how many Chinese there were in Los Angeles. and very surprised at how many Chinese-American LAPD officers could speak no Chinese, and only understand a few words that their parents would yell at them when they were kids!
        "You're never fully dressed without a smile."

        Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

        Three things I know for sure: (1) No bad deed goes unrewarded, (2) No good deed goes unpunished, and (3) It is entirely possible to push the most devoted, loyal and caring person beyond the point where they no longer give a 5h!t.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kieth M. View Post
          Perhaps they used "SWAT" to either impress me, or make their explanation easier.
          Haha.

          The comparison is hard to make, because, technically speaking, the Chinese "SWAT" and American SWAT are two quite different things.

          I think it will surprise any American law enforcement officer if I tell him that one Chinese tier-3 city alone employs 4,000 SWAT officers. Haha.

          4,000 SWAT cops. That is a hell of an army!!!----U.S. cops tend to feel like this, I am afraid.

          The point is, the Chinese SWAT is not SWAT in real sense, namely, small-scale commando team composed of elite tactical officers.

          Rather, Chinese SWAT combines the functions of both tactical commandos and riot cops.

          Namely, its main function is crowd control, etc.

          Thus numerical superiority is a must.

          And just because of its large size, the police cannot afford hire so many sworn officers, so they choose to hire more auxiliary cops for the SWAT unit, because these guys are much cheaper.

          Comment


          • #6
            So.....the lesson here is that American cops are better suited to handle violent confrontations than their Chinese counterparts?


            I don't know whether to feel better about that or appauled...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ChevySSP View Post
              So.....the lesson here is that American cops are better suited to handle violent confrontations than their Chinese counterparts?
              Not necessarily.

              It is just that Chinese cops cannot use guns as often as the American cops, due to policy reasons.

              As for capability, Chinese cops can often leverage the "economies of scale".

              In other words, in U.S. counties, the Sheriff's Department only employs a limited number of deputies (several dozens at most? excluding the State Troopers coming for help), whereas in a Chinese county you got hundreds of cops and one company of Armed Police troops.

              Although China has got more cops because of its larger population, but do not forget that the criminals (no matter in U.S. or China) are usually numbered by 1 or 2, at a time.

              Say if you got a gun-toting suspect who opens fire on the officers, American cops can shoot back 50 bullets at the same time?

              Yet in China, 300 bullets might be waiting for him (in such a scenario, there would be no limitation on the use of firearms for the police).

              Of course, that is just an extreme example, just to highlight the rough difference----for the same number of criminals, when you got more cops, things are much easier to do.

              However, American officers do enjoy better tactical advantage than the Chinese cops.

              Just because U.S. have some many guns in the hands of citizens, if someone makes a threatening gesture to the police (like pulling out a gun), there will be enough grounds for the officers to open fire, with zero tolerance.

              Yet, in China, since there are not so many guns, if a citizen put his hand into his pocket while being questioned by the police, the officers might give him the "benefit of doubt', assuming he has no gun to produce. And so no lethal actions shall be taken directly. The officers can only "subdue" him, instead of killing him directly.

              Thus, when the American officer opens fire on the gunman, the Chinese cop is rushing to the gunman, trying to hold his arm...
              Last edited by cncop; 09-25-2009, 03:13 AM.

              Comment

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