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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
    Errr.....that's changing..... A lot of Instillations have civilians running the show now......
    As I said, my response was based upon the way things were many, many years ago.
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DAL View Post
      As I said, my response was based upon the way things were many, many years ago.
      I was just tossing out an FYI..... as things are changing.....and going to change even more in the near future...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
        I was just tossing out an FYI..... as things are changing.....and going to change even more in the near future...
        And they probably should, because law enforcement is far too complicated and requires far too much discretion and judgment to be entrusted to average 19-year-olds with little training. Public expectations have increased over the years.

        I was in the Navy, which did not even attempt to use sailors or marines for law enforcement, for good reason.
        Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
        Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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        • #19
          I was an Army MP from 71-74 and our typical response to someone who out ranked us and was involved in criminal activity was "don't confuse your rank with my authority".
          Asked a Texas Ranger why he carried a .45 and he told me, because they dont make a .46!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Bearcat357 View Post
            Errr.....that's changing..... A lot of Instillations have civilians running the show now......
            Ya, my step dad was talking with a buddy that just got out of the Corp about a month or two ago that was an MP. When he went to sign up to continue his enlistment he was told he would have to go to infantry because they are replacing ALL of the MP's with civilian officers, with the topic of this thread being one of the reasons. A high ranking officer can't try to intimidate someone that's not anywhere in their chain of command.

            How DAL explained just seems really inefficient, and sounds like it would tie a lot of people up and get everyone, up to and including the base commander, involved over one person or incident for notifications and approvals. That's a lot of trouble to go through when a regular civilian officer could just "cuff him and stuff him."
            Last edited by OrlandoExp103; 09-18-2009, 04:54 AM.
            When passenger of foot heave in sight, tootle the horn. Trumpet him melodiously at first, but if he still obstacles your passage then tootle him with vigor.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by OrlandoExp103 View Post
              How DAL explained just seems really inefficient, and sounds like it would tie a lot of people up and get everyone, up to and including the base commander, involved over one person or incident for notifications and approvals. That's a lot of trouble to go through when a regular civilian officer could just "cuff him and stuff him."
              Of course it is inefficient; it's the military. But it's not as bad as you think. I distinguished between the "officer in charge" and the CO or XO. The "officer in charge" is usually a junior officer who is on call. When I had the duty, I rarely got called. Situations where officers got apprehended were rare, as were situations where there was a need to keep the person apprehended in custody. The procedure bears some similarity to those in state courts in Virginia and Maryland, where a person who is physically arrested must be taken before a magistrate immediately.
              Last edited by DAL; 09-18-2009, 10:47 AM.
              Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
              Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                I've arrested military officers and I've never had a problem with rank.

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                • #23
                  I always tell them "don't confuse your rank with my authority". Also, we get our arresting authority from congress. No one can tell us otherwise, of course there is always politics involved. Our old commander said we couldn't apprehend any officer. Our new commander says "take care of business". A lot of officers get butt hurt when they get tickets or are detained because they think they are god.

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                  • #24
                    Actually Tank our authority to apprehend comes form article 7(B) of the UCMJ and rule 302(B) of the Rules for court martial. And it roughly states that whenever enlisted persons including police and security guards, and civilian police or security guards apprehend a commissioned or warrant officer they should immediately report to the commissioned officer to whom they are responsible to.

                    Any other enlisted person not acting in law enforcement capacity may apprehend a commissioned or warrant officer to prevent disgrace to the armed forces or upon a lawful order of a commissioned officer.

                    So therefore personnel acting a law enforcement capacity do not need to have permission from an officer to apprehend an officer. And acting in a law enforcement capacity we bear the full authority of the installation commander.
                    Professionalism always, courtesy until it's time not to be.

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                    • #25
                      On 30 June 1775, the Second Continental Congress established 69 Articles of War to govern the conduct of the Continental Army.

                      Effective upon its ratification in 1789, Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution provided that Congress has the power to regulate the land and naval forces.[1] On 10 April 1806, the United States Congress enacted 101 Articles of War (which applied to both the Army and the Navy), which were not significantly revised until over a century later. The military justice system continued to operate under the Articles of War until 31 May 1951, when the Uniform Code of Military Justice went into effect.

                      The UCMJ was passed by Congress on 5 May 1950, signed into law by President Harry S. Truman, and became effective on 31 May 1951. The word Uniform in the Code's title refers to the congressional intent to make military justice uniform or consistent among the armed services.

                      From: wikipedia

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by tank83 View Post
                        On 30 June 1775, the Second Continental Congress established 69 Articles of War to govern the conduct of the Continental Army.

                        Effective upon its ratification in 1789, Article I, Section 8 of the United States Constitution provided that Congress has the power to regulate the land and naval forces.[1] On 10 April 1806, the United States Congress enacted 101 Articles of War (which applied to both the Army and the Navy), which were not significantly revised until over a century later. The military justice system continued to operate under the Articles of War until 31 May 1951, when the Uniform Code of Military Justice went into effect.

                        The UCMJ was passed by Congress on 5 May 1950, signed into law by President Harry S. Truman, and became effective on 31 May 1951. The word Uniform in the Code's title refers to the congressional intent to make military justice uniform or consistent among the armed services.

                        From: wikipedia

                        You really need to go back to the jailhouse and reread your blue book. Along with AFI 31-201
                        I don't answer recruitment messages....

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                        • #27
                          But hey Orlando he's a hot **** SF member. Who knows everything.
                          Professionalism always, courtesy until it's time not to be.

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                          • #28
                            Where did this post go wrong?

                            Orlando, don't you have to go supervise your gate guards? And ccthompsfs, you must be in the guard because you make no sense at all. Guard card!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tank83 View Post
                              Where did this post go wrong?

                              Orlando, don't you have to go supervise your gate guards? And ccthompsfs, you must be in the guard because you make no sense at all. Guard card!
                              Actually I do not have to, its my day off. Plus my guards know their job and where they get the authority. It is obvious you do not. Go back to working the flightline.
                              I don't answer recruitment messages....

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                              • #30
                                I already showed you were we get authority from. We get our direct authority to enforce the law on military and civilian personnel on military property.

                                We don't have flightline duty here.

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