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  • Arrest set-up by opencarry.org

    http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/58639842.html

    Man May Have Set Police Up To Arrest Him

    By Michael George
    RACINE - Gun rights advocates OpenCarry.org contacted TODAY'S TMJ4, saying a man in Racine was arrested Wednesday for carrying a gun on his own front porch. In Wisconsin, the open carry of weapons is legal.

    Racine police, however, say not everything is as it seems. They're wondering if the whole incident was set-up.

    Racine police say it started when an anonymous woman reported someone shooting at raccoons. When officers arrived in the neighborhood, they found Frank Hannan-Rock wearing a holstered handgun and standing on his front porch, just three houses from where the shots were reported.

    Police tried to question him, but claim he wouldn't give them his name.

    "He basically indicated that he was refusing to talk to us because J.B. Van Hollen, as the state attorney general, had told him he didn't have to speak with us," said Sgt. Bernie Kupper.

    Police took the man to jail for obstruction. They claim it wasn't for carrying a gun, but for refusing to provide his name.

    Hannan-Rock's family believes it was an unlawful arrest.

    However, police say the original call of shots fired originated from Hannan-Rock's own house. They say he was also carrying a digital recorder and an open carry rights pamphlet.

    "It kind of makes us wonder if this gentleman was trying to set us up as a police agency and see how we were going to react to the open carry situation," Sgt. Kupper said.

    Hannan-Rock did not return attempts to reach him by TODAY'S TMJ4 reporter Michael George. Off camera, his wife said if the 911 call came from their house, someone did it without their knowledge. She also added Hannan-Rock frequently carries a tape recorder because he is concerned about arrests when he openly carries his weapon.

    Hannan-Rock argued to police that he wasn't required to give his name to police. Racine police say when they get a report of shots fired and see a man nearby with a gun, he should at least provide his name to prove he is carrying the weapon legally.




    Surprising, but not. Charge for false report?
    "I would suggest that when a person has a thought of doing anything serious against the law, that before they did, that they should go to a quiet place and think about it seriously."

    William George Bonin - Executed in Calfornia Feb 23rd 1996

  • #2
    There have been several incidents in California where open carry supporters decided to try to get the police to harass and, hopefully, arrest them. Open carry in most parts of California is sheer lunacy because it is legal only if the weapon is unloaded, and police have a statutory right to examine any weapon that is openly carried to make sure that it is unloaded.
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Idiots. They literally are idiots. They are trolling for trouble. All they care about is media attention, they don't give a damn about protecting themselves or their families.
      Those who believe, ye shall receive.

      Comment


      • #4
        http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/58583422.html

        The "first" story above from that website says nothing about opencarry.org advocating that this guy do what he did. Maybe that's the reason why the original writer, Micheal George, was replaced?

        Here's another two reports on the same story with more information. In these, the stories change quite a bit to state that opencarry.org is where the man (Hannon-Rock) met others in the area. Not that opencarry.org encouraged anyone to setup the local police as the original headline states.

        http://www.journaltimes.com/news/loc...tml?mode=story

        "Officers later determined Hannan-Rock was not the offender in the shots-fired call."

        http://racinenews.org/2009/09/10/rac...ch/#more-33932

        Seems like the tmj is trying to garner readership through sensational headlines, not through factual reporting. Not surprised, many papers do that.

        I do not condone baiting of LEOs or swatting. There are crazy radicals who WOULD do such a thing. - yes I edited this post a number of different times to include new information.
        Last edited by bohdiopencarry; 09-11-2009, 08:16 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bohdi,

          You have to admit this really doesn't help your case. These are the events I outlined in my post earlier in the other topic, the baiting of LEO's for what purpose? We aren't the enemy. 9 times out of 10 we contact the OC person due to complaint or 911 call, not because we want to.
          In Memory of A Fallen Hero

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bohdiopencarry View Post
            I do not condone baiting of LEOs or swatting.
            "Swatting"?
            "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pulicords View Post
              "Swatting"?
              It refers to making a false call in order to get a SWAT team or other Police response unit sent to someone's home.

              Comment


              • #8
                Oh, I thought it was like spanking.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JPSO Recruit View Post
                  Bohdi,

                  You have to admit this really doesn't help your case. These are the events I outlined in my post earlier in the other topic, the baiting of LEO's for what purpose? We aren't the enemy. 9 times out of 10 we contact the OC person due to complaint or 911 call, not because we want to.
                  JSPO - Agreed. The story is not exactly a positive one for OC, or for the website OCDO. Especially if one goes only by the headline. Infact, OCDO may actually have grounds for a slander, libel, and copyright infringement case against TMJ if they really wanted to pursue that line....back on track though.

                  One has to read the story carefully to get to the facts. There are some pretty interesting details between four different reports, to really get an understanding of what happened.

                  If you read carefully, Hannon-Rock ends up not being the offender. In fact, there hasn't been any information on the person who may have fired the shots, execpt where a phone call came from, and that no one answered the door at that address.

                  So far the only facts that have come out are:

                  1. A shot/s may have been fired
                  2. Someone at an address is suspected of doing so
                  3. That person wasn't there or didn't answer the door when LEO's arrived
                  4. LEO's cased the neighborhood - "One man matched the suspect's description and was standing next to Hannan-Rock, who was openly carrying a holstered gun on his side."
                  5. They let Hannon-Rock go because LEO's determine he was not the suspect after all - "Officers said they began asking Hannan-Rock questions and said they were investigating a weapons-discharge complaint. He answered their questions about the type of gun he was carrying but refused to give his name or any other information. Police reports said the man told police that Wisconsin Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen told him he didn't have to answer their questions. Police then handcuffed and arrested Hannan-Rock for obstructing."
                  6. Suspect is still at large - "Officers later determined Hannan-Rock was not the offender in the shots-fired call. No one had been arrested for that crime Thursday, but police are issuing a warrant recommendation for a man who lives at 405 Luedtke Ave."
                  7. opencarry.org is where Hannon-Rock has met others - "Hubert Hoffman of Onalaksa called Hannan-Rock's arrest a persecution. Hoffman, who made headlines as the organizer of an open-carry picnic in Onalaska earlier this year, met Hannan-Rock on an online forum at http://opencarry.org."

                  8. opencarry.org has not been quoted or even suggested as advocating the baiting of LEO's in any of the four news reports provided

                  9. What actually happened is still unclear. What we know is that police were called to the scene. It still is unclear if a weapon was actually discharged or not. - Police said officers were called to 405 Luedtke Ave. at 6:30 p.m. Wednesday for a report of a man with a gun. An anonymous caller told dispatchers that a man was shooting at raccoons in his backyard and was walking out to the street to reload his gun. The caller said she was concerned because there were children playing outside in the neighborhood.
                  --- Reports said officers found blood on the sidewalk in front of that house and believe someone could have been shooting at raccoons.

                  ---- What it hasn't been determine is that shots were actually fired, and that a racoon is actually dead, and that the blood on the sidewalk is actually racoon blood.

                  Why is any of that relevant? Well, maybe the anonymous caller just doesn't like guns, and doesn't feel like anyone should have them other than police. So when they see someone carrying a gun who obviously isn't a LEO, it gets them all spun up and they place a call to the local station to come out and question someone doing nothing wrong. It's a pain in the butt for the LEO, it's a pain in the butt for the legally carrying citizen. That's what happens when someone doesn't like what you are doing, even if it's legal.

                  I dislike dumb *** gun owners. Certain folks should not be allowed to own weapons, cars, or breed. I dislike citizens who are willing to use LEO's to harrass citizens who are doing nothing wrong even more. If you don't like what someone is doing, work to get the law changed. In the mean time, don't make more work for LEO's because what you see makes you uncomfortable if it's legal. LEO's have a hard enough job.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bohdiopencarry View Post
                    http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/58583422.html

                    The "first" story above from that website says nothing about opencarry.org advocating that this guy do what he did. Maybe that's the reason why the original writer, Micheal George, was replaced?

                    Here's another two reports on the same story with more information. In these, the stories change quite a bit to state that opencarry.org is where the man (Hannon-Rock) met others in the area. Not that opencarry.org encouraged anyone to setup the local police as the original headline states.

                    http://www.journaltimes.com/news/loc...tml?mode=story

                    "Officers later determined Hannan-Rock was not the offender in the shots-fired call."

                    http://racinenews.org/2009/09/10/rac...ch/#more-33932

                    Seems like the tmj is trying to garner readership through sensational headlines, not through factual reporting. Not surprised, many papers do that.

                    I do not condone baiting of LEOs or swatting. There are crazy radicals who WOULD do such a thing. - yes I edited this post a number of different times to include new information.
                    SO, the guy carries a voice recorder when he carries a gun (so do I), and somebody in his house called the police because somebody in the neighborhood was shooting a gun. SO we decide the guy baited the cops, well the FACTS say he probably did NOT.

                    "Officers later determined Hannan-Rock was not the offender in the shots-fired call."
                    Somebody ELSE was firing shots then ??

                    Bill
                    Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bohdiopencarry View Post
                      Well, maybe the anonymous caller just doesn't like guns, and doesn't feel like anyone should have them other than police.
                      Oh, I'm pretty sure the guy who called doesn't think that:

                      Article posted on front page of OCDO that you yourself posted already.

                      However, police are looking into whether the whole incident was a set-up by Hannan-Rock to test officers' reaction to him openly carrying a gun. They have determined the initial call to police about a weapons violation in the neighborhood came from his house.
                      ~Gun control has always been about punishing the people that didn't shoot anyone.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm sick of these civil disobedience / "educating" police types. There is exercising your rights then there is plain stupidity and breaking the law. The "few" who use this practice gives gun owners everywhere a bad name.
                        Last edited by brad8e; 09-11-2009, 07:48 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It seems to me that if this guy called on himself, or had someone in his household do so, just to test what the Police response would be, then by virtue of not having reported the staged and scripted nature of the preliminary events, he's made a false Police report.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BigMyk View Post
                            Oh, I'm pretty sure the guy who called doesn't think that:

                            Article posted on front page of OCDO that you yourself posted already.
                            http://www.journaltimes.com/news/loc...cc4c002e0.html

                            From paragraph 2
                            Frank Hannan-Rock, 52, of 417 Luedtke Ave.

                            From paragraph 6
                            They have determined the initial call to police about a weapons violation in the neighborhood came from his house. (Hannan-Rock)

                            From paragraph 8
                            Police said officers were called to 405 Luedtke Ave. at 6:30 p.m

                            From paragraph 9
                            The caller provided a description and said she thought the offender lived in the upper unit of a home at 405 Luedtke Ave

                            IF Hannon-Rock did set this up, and I'm not saying he did or didn't, that was a dumb *** move on his part. Just not enough information to say one way or another. Maybe someone in Hannon-Rock's house saw someone shoot a racoon across the street and that made THEM feel uncomfortable - Hence the anonymous call. Or maybe not.

                            As a gun owner if I saw someone do that I'd probably call the LEO's and let them deal with it too, annonymously. I just don't see enough information to say he set it up at this time, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Stop Resisting View Post
                              http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/58639842.html

                              Man May Have Set Police Up To Arrest Him

                              By Michael George
                              RACINE - Gun rights advocates OpenCarry.org contacted TODAY'S TMJ4, saying a man in Racine was arrested Wednesday for carrying a gun on his own front porch. In Wisconsin, the open carry of weapons is legal.

                              Racine police, however, say not everything is as it seems. They're wondering if the whole incident was set-up.

                              Racine police say it started when an anonymous woman reported someone shooting at raccoons. When officers arrived in the neighborhood, they found Frank Hannan-Rock wearing a holstered handgun and standing on his front porch, just three houses from where the shots were reported.

                              Police tried to question him, but claim he wouldn't give them his name.

                              "He basically indicated that he was refusing to talk to us because J.B. Van Hollen, as the state attorney general, had told him he didn't have to speak with us," said Sgt. Bernie Kupper.

                              Police took the man to jail for obstruction. They claim it wasn't for carrying a gun, but for refusing to provide his name.

                              Hannan-Rock's family believes it was an unlawful arrest.

                              However, police say the original call of shots fired originated from Hannan-Rock's own house. They say he was also carrying a digital recorder and an open carry rights pamphlet.

                              "It kind of makes us wonder if this gentleman was trying to set us up as a police agency and see how we were going to react to the open carry situation," Sgt. Kupper said.

                              Hannan-Rock did not return attempts to reach him by TODAY'S TMJ4 reporter Michael George. Off camera, his wife said if the 911 call came from their house, someone did it without their knowledge. She also added Hannan-Rock frequently carries a tape recorder because he is concerned about arrests when he openly carries his weapon.

                              Hannan-Rock argued to police that he wasn't required to give his name to police. Racine police say when they get a report of shots fired and see a man nearby with a gun, he should at least provide his name to prove he is carrying the weapon legally.




                              Surprising, but not. Charge for false report?
                              specifically trying to answer your question as it applies where I enforce the law.
                              First off It is idiotic and sheer lunacy to try and set the Police up when there is a gun in play other than the one already on the Officers Hip. You are asking for trouble just to prove your point if it's about open carry laws.

                              Having said that, as it again applies to my state law: it' is not against the law if the guy did not want to provide his information to the Police who were doing an investigation. Making it harder for the Police is not obstruction in the beginning stages of an investigation when there is no PC for an arrest. Obstructing would be if false information or purposely mis-leading information was given and i think you would have a better chance of convicting the actual caller who called in the "fake" shots fired call than the guy sitting on his own poarch obeying the law.
                              "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. The MARINES don't have that problem." ....Ronald Reagan

                              Comment

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