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10th Circuit court rules on Open carry.

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  • 10th Circuit court rules on Open carry.

    10th Circuit court rules that Open carry is not grounds for detaining a citizen.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=7856

    http://www.examiner.com/x-2782-DC-Gu...-carrying-guns.

  • #2
    This is not a decision of the Tenth Circuit.

    By its terms, it is a decision of a District Court in the 10th Circuit, and it turns in part on New Mexico state law.
    Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      According to the documents, the Court simply enforced the 4th Amendment issues at hand and affirmed that a violation of the 4th Amendment happened.

      The Court said the officers exceeded their authority with respect to that one issue and did not affirm a claim of false arrest or unlawful force.

      If the theatre owner had a sign posted that prohibits the carrying of weapons, I think the officers would have been supported by the court.

      Too bad! The officers simply performed an investigatory act but went beyond in doing so.
      Be courteous to all, but intimate with few, and let those few be well tried before you give them your confidence!

      [George Washington (1732 - 1799)]

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      • #4
        +1 to the Sgt

        This actually doenst say anything about investigative stops for open carry or any such thing. Nothing at all.

        Check the underlying facts of the case, its actually a pretty clear situation. I feel bad for the officers because at the time im sure they thought they were doing the right thing. This will simply serve to make a guy a little money and reinforce the line on actions for future officer contacts in that department on how to handle investigations on private property, etc.

        If the building were posted or the owner / employees had first asked them to leave (creating possible trespassing if they refused) it would have completely been a different story.

        And this was a federal district case, not a circuit level appeal, which would be of more impact to the general region.
        Last edited by Oddball-Six; 09-11-2009, 10:46 AM. Reason: Spelling Fix
        -------------------------------
        You can't fix stupid, but you can arrest it. - LINY

        "Their house, their rules. And when they get robbed, they can call 911 and ask them to send a hippie to protect them." - ateamer

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        • #5
          What damages can Mr. St. John claim or prove in his civil suit? The cost of his movie ticket? And what are New Mexico's laws on indemnification for the officers?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dinosaur32 View Post
            What damages can Mr. St. John claim or prove in his civil suit? The cost of his movie ticket? And what are New Mexico's laws on indemnification for the officers?
            Depends what the jury awards, damages can be punitive too. How long was he detained ?? Was he arrested and booked ?? Etc.

            Bill
            Just pay your dues, and be quiet :-)

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            • #7
              No arrest, detention limited to time it took for officers to escort him out of theater, pat him down and tell him he could return to theater if he put gun in his truck. He did that and went back into theater.

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              • #8
                Any officer who stops someone simply for open carry is an over-zealous officer who probably just wants to exert some sort of authority over a poor citizen who is probably upstanding and just carrying a firearm to help protect themselves. Some officers just think that no one except them should have a gun, sad.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by coolhead64 View Post
                  Any officer who stops someone simply for open carry is an over-zealous officer who probably just wants to exert some sort of authority over a poor citizen who is probably upstanding and just carrying a firearm to help protect themselves.
                  Putting aside the fact that open carry is illegal in many states, and in certain places in other states, I can certainly see how openly carrying a firearm can be sufficiently out of the ordinary to warrant a citizen contact in some circumstances. For example:
                  • Man carries two holstered pistols and an AR-15 while walking through the business district of Atlanta.
                  • Man carries a holstered pistol into a bank in a city.
                  • Man carrying a gun walks up and down the street outside the portion of a jail from which prisoners are released.
                  • Man carrying a gun follows you around while you are on foot patrol.


                  It has to do with the fact that the circumstances are highly unusual and there is a heightened risk of violence.

                  In this case, the police responded only because of a complaint from the movie theater where, apparently, management or patrons were disturbed by the behavior.
                  Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                  Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DAL View Post
                    Putting aside the fact that open carry is illegal in many states, and in certain places in other states, I can certainly see how openly carrying a firearm can be sufficiently out of the ordinary to warrant a citizen contact in some circumstances. For example:
                    • Man carries two holstered pistols and an AR-15 while walking through the business district of Atlanta.
                    • Man carries a holstered pistol into a bank in a city.
                    • Man carrying a gun walks up and down the street outside the portion of a jail from which prisoners are released.
                    • Man carrying a gun follows you around while you are on foot patrol.


                    It has to do with the fact that the circumstances are highly unusual and there is a heightened risk of violence.

                    In this case, the police responded only because of a complaint from the movie theater where, apparently, management or patrons were disturbed by the behavior.
                    1. In Georgia, Not illegal nor PC, nor RAS, as long as it isnt at church, public gathering.
                    2. Same as #1
                    3. As long as he is outside the guard line see #1
                    4. As long as he isn't pointing it at someone, see #1

                    Nothing out of the ordinary about a citizen carrying a gun, especially in the open(which is legal in GA)

                    As for your other statement about legality, stopping someone because you see them doing something illegal isn't the same as simply stopping someone because they have a gun.
                    Last edited by coolhead64; 09-12-2009, 05:41 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by coolhead64 View Post
                      1. In Georgia, Not illegal nor PC, nor RAS, as long as it isnt at church, public gathering.
                      2. Same as #1
                      3. As long as he is outside the guard line see #1
                      4. As long as he isn't pointing it at someone, see #1

                      Nothing out of the ordinary about a citizen carrying a gun, especially in the open(which is legal in GA)

                      As for your other statement about legality, stopping someone because you see them doing something illegal isn't the same as simply stopping someone because they have a gun.
                      You do not have to see someone do something illegal to have legal justification to stop and question them. You only need reasonable suspicion to believe that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. "Reasonable suspicion" is a lower standard than "probable cause." You have to consider all the surrounding circumstances.

                      I think that if you found someone walking up and down the street with a gun outside the jail, you would be remiss in your duties not to stop and question him. Would you have to wait for him to shoot the person being released?
                      Last edited by DAL; 09-12-2009, 06:04 PM.
                      Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

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                      • #12
                        Of course, you can always stop and talk to anyone, but they dont have to talk to you and you have no ability to make them. In Georgia in the instances you provided.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          jeez, why dont we all just follow the 2nd and that's it. we have to have the second so that we can have the first amendment.it's simply as that. the hell i dont understand alot of you people of both sides dont understand..get over it!!
                          break censorship chains

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pfchell View Post
                            jeez, why dont we all just follow the 2nd and that's it. we have to have the second so that we can have the first amendment.it's simply as that. the hell i dont understand alot of you people of both sides dont understand..get over it!!
                            But we do follow the Second Amendment; ee don't all interpret it the same way. Furthermore, the Second Amendment is only marginally involved.
                            Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
                            Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity. -- Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DAL View Post
                              Putting aside the fact that open carry is illegal in many states, and in certain places in other states, I can certainly see how openly carrying a firearm can be sufficiently out of the ordinary to warrant a citizen contact in some circumstances.
                              Open carry is legal in 42 states. How do you figure that open carry is illegal in many states?
                              sigpic

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