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  • England's weapons amnesty...

    Stumbled across these on the beeb's website, and was amused/scared:

    <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/2986279.stm>

    and

    <http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/2952591.stm>

    I'm puzzled by the second one, though; the site states it was an "used rocket launcher", while the officer in the picture appears to be holding a single-shot, disposable antitank weapon. While I expect that the cannon was probably illegal, can someone confirm that a expended LAW is actually proscribed? I've seen such for sale in the U.S., and would thus assume that they're, at lease, conditionally legal in an expended state.

    Too, wasn't it a LAW that was fired at one of the intelligence ministries (MI-something) a few years back?
    Sarcasm: Just another valuable service I provide.

  • #2
    I was in the UK a month ago, and just about every other radio "advert" (commercial) was of the UK's Gun Amnesty Program. A female narrator tells you to set the gun down (presumably on a police station front counter) and "walk away." The line is repeated several times during the commercial, and if that wasn't enough they even dubbed in sounds of a substantial metal object being slid across a counter, then fading footsteps...

    What was rather eye-opening was how they also talk about the potential punishment: Five years in prison FOR MERE POSSESSION OF A HANDGUN [Eek!] [Eek!]

    Perhaps this would be better for the Gun Topics forum, but with the UK's rather strict gun laws, why is it that gun-related crime in some parts of the UK is fast approaching that of the US?

    Comment


    • #3
      In reply to the above. Rocket launchers in England (and I guess the rest of the UK) are "prohibited weapons", the sale or possession of which is unlawful without the permission of the Secretary of State for Defence. They need not actually be capable of discharging a missile. Though a number of "used" LAWs have been handed in, we have also had at least one RPG launcher surrendered (which was the weapon used to attack the HQ of MI6/the Secret Intelligence Service - the organisation James Bond is supposed to work for - a few years ago). Though that building escaped almost without a scratch, I doubt the same would be true if one was fired at my police station ... or a hospital ... or a school.

      Personally I can't see the problem with criminals getting five years for possession of a handgun (this would be illegal possession of a handgun after all). I don't know whether there is a little confusion about the above - people have been allowed to hand in handguns etc and just "walk away". That is the point of an amnesty. Now however that people have had the chance to clear the slate, it is scarcely unfair to up the tarriff to 5 years.

      People have been carping on about the fact that hard core crims haven't been handing in their firearms - well obviously they wouldn't, and no-one believed that they would. But if people are clearing out their old war souvenirs or whatever, these guns won't be around for criminals to steal when they burgle houses or for people to plug each other with when they have had a little bit too much to drink. I was in the nick the day before yesterday when a sawn off and two revolvers were handed in, and I have to say I feel much better knowing we have hold of them than anyone else.

      [ 05-02-2003, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: Cockney Corner ]
      I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

      Comment


      • #4
        quote:
        Perhaps this would be better for the Gun Topics forum, but with the UK's rather strict gun laws, why is it that gun-related crime in some parts of the UK is fast approaching that of the US?
        If you take away the right of the average citizen to protect themselves then crime will rise,
        criminals will always be able to get guns so, the UK's gun laws are utterly ridiculous.
        since they have banned gun ownership violent crime has risen by over 150% (I could be wrong on that estimation but it is something close to that). Criminals will have an easier time attacking/robbing/raping/terrorizing if they know that chances are their victim cannot defend themselves.
        May G-d bless you, keep you safe, and always keep you in his loving care

        Comment


        • #5
          I'd just like to mention that a complete ban on legal ownership of firearms is one of the reasons I left the UK.

          I was increasingly feeling more vonerable (sp?) in London as violent crime continued to rise, and not allowed ANY means to defend ones self.

          Infact, I was actualy ARRESTED and CHARGED with ABH (Actual bodily Harm) after I was attacked by a man more then 1 foot taller then me, and weighing at least 50lbs more then me. He came at me, shoved me into a corner with such force that i had a 6x6' browny-green bruise on my arm. After he took a couple swings at my face, with me avoiding them (I was sober - he was obviously wasted), I hit him square in the face with a closed fist (which happened to have my drink in it) to get him off of me - Next thing I know i was in handcuffs and locked up for 36 hours.

          The charges wre dropped after several court apperences.

          What drove me insane, was that even though there were 6 witnesses that saw what happened, because i drew blood I was at fault. So much for self-defence!

          Comment


          • #6
            People have been carping on about the fact that hard core crims haven't been handing in their firearms - well obviously they wouldn't, and no-one believed that they would. But if people are clearing out their old war souvenirs or whatever, these guns won't be around for criminals to steal when they burgle houses or for people to plug each other with when they have had a little bit too much to drink. I was in the nick the day before yesterday when a sawn off and two revolvers were handed in, and I have to say I feel much better knowing we have hold of them than anyone else.

            Its a good thing that"you" have them. God forbid that anybody DEEFEND themselves from a crook with a burgled weapon.
            "The American People will never knowingly adopt Socialism. Under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every segment of the socialist program,until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened."

            Norman Thomas

            Comment


            • #7
              What drove me insane, was that even though there were 6 witnesses that saw what happened, because i drew blood I was at fault. So much for self-defence!

              Apparently this is a mindset that is not allowed in England.
              "The American People will never knowingly adopt Socialism. Under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every segment of the socialist program,until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened."

              Norman Thomas

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm just hopein that Englands veiws on self-defence dont harm my chances of pursueing my law enforcement career in my home nation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It is, at best, a gross simplification to say that the increase in violent crime is due to the tightening of firearms laws in England. There are lots of factors in play here.

                  However, I think it is fair to say that the change in the law hasn't really made a difference, because criminals here do not nip down the gun shop to get their guns (they always seem to get them from a mysterious geezer in a pub - if we could only catch him, our gun crime problem would be over tomorrow).

                  That said, I wouldn't trust a few of my fellow Police Officers with a water pistol, let alone a firearm, and as for the idea that any numpty in the street could have a pistol under his bed, ready to wave about whenever he got ****ed ... that does leave me cold.
                  I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    could have a pistol under his bed, ready to wave about whenever he got ****ed ... that does leave me cold.

                    Do people do that a bunch over there ?

                    Must be the beer...
                    "The American People will never knowingly adopt Socialism. Under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every segment of the socialist program,until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened."

                    Norman Thomas

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Er, Watchman. Just to get this straight, are you actually saying people should be allowed to possess sawn-off shotguns? And yeah, in my experience, lots of people when they get ****ed, be it in their homes or elsewhere generally pick up the most dangerous thing near them and waive it at whoever they're arguing with - be it their partner or the Police. At the moment in the UK this is often a kitchen knife. But if they have guns, they'll use them (and do).

                      [ 05-02-2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Cockney Corner ]
                      I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        AOW - Any Other Weapon

                        Basicly you just need to get a sign-off from your local PD and pay some tax.

                        Click me

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          quote:
                          I feel much better knowing we have hold of them than anyone else.

                          I mean no disrespect to any LEO's In this next remark as besides for being the chaplain I am also a sworn DS.

                          What makes the police in the UK "better" than the average citizen that you feel better knowing that you all have the guns? so now citizen Joe cannot defend himself?

                          remember being a police officer is a sacred job. it does not make the police g-d, the job of the police is to enforce the law, stop crime where they see it etc... being a police officer doesn't not give us the right to "look down" on other people, it gives us the privilege to help and protect them and if i am correct most PO's in england are not armed so how are the police supposed to protect these people?

                          The right to self defense is a god given right,
                          no government should be able to take away that right from, law abiding citizens.
                          Should every law abiding person be able to carry a CCW? that's debatable, However the government has no right to tell us that we cannot defend ourselves.

                          Statistically speaking a knife on the street is more dangerous than a firearm.
                          May G-d bless you, keep you safe, and always keep you in his loving care

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cockney Corner;

                            It really not the weapon that matters. Its the MINDSET.

                            As far as weapons go, I can legally own a "sawedoff", a full auto M-16 or even a 9mm with a silencer.

                            Does that make me a threat to the police ?

                            However the government has no right to tell us that we cannot defend ourselves.

                            Apparently it does. Just ask the English.

                            First its the guns.
                            Tommorow it'll be knives(if it aint already)
                            The day after...who knows ?

                            [ 05-02-2003, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: Watchman ]
                            "The American People will never knowingly adopt Socialism. Under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every segment of the socialist program,until one day America will be a socialist nation without knowing how it happened."

                            Norman Thomas

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Wow, this is really heating up.

                              OK, a number of points there. No-one (well not me anyway) is saying that there should be no right of self defence. Nor do I "look down" on non Police Officers. However, as a Police Officer, I have been selected from a large number of candidates, vetted, interviewed and then trained in the use and the implications of the use of less lethal weapons. That's why I get to carry weapons about and non Police don't (and I don't carry anything off duty). And as to how we protect people from gun-wielding nutters - we arrest people carrying guns without lawful excuse. And we do that incidentally by getting armed officers to come and help us (we have officers in armed response vehicles or ARV's out and about). It isn't perfect but what is in life.

                              I agree that the important thing is the intention of the person with a weapon. But how do we determine that future intention when we dole out the weapons? It seems to me that there is pretty simple link between having a gun and shooting someone and not having a gun and not shooting someone. As the US's figures for deaths by gunshot demonstrate, if I may be so bold.

                              Not sure what the point about the lethality of knives is all about. I know. I arrest people carrying knives without good reason too.
                              I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

                              Comment

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