Cop killed by LEO

[TheKansan]

Ofc. James McGee Jr.

Ofc. Thomas Hamlette Jr.

Some of you dont understand the nature of this beast. Is not as simple as the officers should have recognized him as an officer. When you are in plain clothes, unless you are working in a vice or tac unit where in general you all roll together, drawing your weapon in plain clothes is a very very bad thing.

It is a very bad thing because you just effectively became a man-with-a-gun. You know you are a cop, no one else knows. Adrenaline and tunnel vision is almost always a factor. It is imperative as the plain clothes officer to be aware of your surroundings and listen to whats going on.

I hate seeing this.

[LeanG]

Damn!!!

This is too tragic to really comment on. The perp deserves what's coming to him.

[ComicGuy]

Such a sad, tragic event. I hope the burglar gets charged for manslaughter.

Manslaughter?

1. Burglary from a motor vehicle is a felony.
2. The suspect was in immediate flight from said felony.
3. Someone died as a direct result of the felony.

1+2+3=Felony Murder.

[Glock'sRock]

R.I.P. Omar Edwards my sympathy goes out to his family. Don't listen to the papers ask someone on the job.

[Spoken]

That is not an opinion, it is a fact. And I will be judged by 12 than carried by six.

Do you have proof of this fact? I'll kill (in defense of my self or a 3rd person) a white person just as fast as I would a black, hispanic, asian, chinese, etc. person!

[Spoken]

I respectfully disagree with your comment. The number of minority officers that are shot each year by mistake is disproportionate. Why do you suppose that is?

That's fine, everyone has their opinion. I treat everyone with a gun the same, you point it at me and the last sound your going to hear is POP, regardless of your race.

[CityCopDC]

Ofc. James McGee Jr.

Ofc. Thomas Hamlette Jr.

Some of you dont understand the nature of this beast. Is not as simple as the officers should have recognized him as an officer. When you are in plain clothes, unless you are working in a vice or tac unit where in general you all roll together, drawing your weapon in plain clothes is a very very bad thing.

It is a very bad thing because you just effectively became a man-with-a-gun. You know you are a cop, no one else knows. Adrenaline and tunnel vision is almost always a factor. It is imperative as the plain clothes officer to be aware of your surroundings and listen to whats going on.

[marcusindc]

RIP.

I wish this thread could have just been our thoughts and prayers to the family and department, instead of the shoulda, coulda, woulda's.

[R.A.B.]

I wish all the best for the officer's family and friends. I'm still in the police academy so I'm confused about the incident. The on-duty officer discharged six rounds into the off-duty officer whom was chasing the assailant with his firearm is the on-duty officer justified in shooting him? from what I've learned from the academy was deadly force has to meet the criteria of A-O-J; Ability, opportunity and jeopardy. And of course deadly force has to be reasonable and justifiable. In this case, the armed off-duty officer did posses a firearm but did not pose a direct threat to the on-duty officers nor does the article clarify if the on-duty officers identified themselves as law enforcement. Any thoughts?

Anyone armed with a firearm poses a serious threat, just because it isn't pointed at you, or being discharged at you doesn't mean it is any less of a threat. This is just such a tragic event.....prayers to the deceased officers family and to the anti-crime officers involved as well.

[shovel88]

Unfortunately the story changed about 3 or 4 times before this account. At first it was reported that the on duty officer jumped out of the vehicle and just proceeded to fire at officer edwards while he was running after the perp.

right now nobody knows what the facts are, they said he was shot in his arm and back, now its his arm and chest. The medical examiner is saying the fatal shot entered his back.

This story is all over the place

it will be interesting once we finally have the complete and truthful story, the only problem is officer Edwards still won't be going home no matter what the outcome.

[PAPD 8-2]

this from the NY Times............


"Officer Dunton, one of three white officers in an unmarked police car patrolling the neighborhood, saw him racing down the street with his pistol in the air, and emerged from the car to shout, “Police! Drop the gun.”

Officer Edwards, according to the account, turned to face his unwitting colleagues, his gun pointed their way.

Several witnesses told the police that Officer Edwards never said a word. But one witness, according to a law enforcement official with knowledge of the case, said Officer Edwards might have managed to begin to say one word — “Police.” "


if this part is true it should explain why the officer would take the shot, tragic none the less.


link.....http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/30/ny...pagewanted=all

Unfortunately the story changed about 3 or 4 times before this account. At first it was reported that the on duty officer jumped out of the vehicle and just proceeded to fire at officer edwards while he was running after the perp.

right now nobody knows what the facts are, they said he was shot in his arm and back, now its his arm and chest. The medical examiner is saying the fatal shot entered his back.

This story is all over the place

[Nikk]

There is no real arguing with the info you cited however, in the study you cited you stated that the police ...."were consistently less likely to actually fire, as they are trained to watch for behaviors, which tended override a personal bias." I submit the training reflects one thing, and the repeated reality dictates another.

I understand, and appreciate your thoughts. I'm half-minority, (not a proper term, I know! lol) but as a woman the challenges are a bit different. I don't think this is the thread to go too far into this sort of thing, but what has been said has been insightful and respectful.

[cityblusuit]

In regards to the race issue, wouldn't the area also make a difference? In some areas, such as where there is a lot of "black on black" crime, it would be statistically logical for a black gunman to be seen as a danger. For a reverse example, serial killers are predominantly white males, you would concentrate first on white males rather than minorities or women. (Which may be why it took longer to find the Washington snipers as serial killing is, statistically, an unusual crime for blacks to commit. They don't fit the profile.)

There have been studies where you have a split second to decide to use deadly force or not (in a virtual scenario). They studied a range of people and occupations, and the majority of them (including other blacks) were quicker to tighten up on the trigger at the sight of a black man than a white man (or a woman, of any race). Police, however, were consistently less likely to actually fire, as they are trained to watch for behaviors, which tended override a personal bias.

Regardless, this is a horribly tragedy and I feel deep sadness for all involved. The family who lost a loved one, the officer going through the horror knowing he took this life - even if it was understandable in the circumstances, and the brothers and sisters in blue of both...are all in my thoughts.

There is no real arguing with the info you cited however, in the study you cited you stated that the police ...."were consistently less likely to actually fire, as they are trained to watch for behaviors, which tended override a personal bias." I submit the training reflects one thing, and the repeated reality dictates another.

[Nikk]

In regards to the race issue, wouldn't the area also make a difference? In some areas, such as where there is a lot of "black on black" crime, it would be statistically logical for a black gunman to be seen as a danger. For a reverse example, serial killers are predominantly white males, you would concentrate first on white males rather than minorities or women. (Which may be why it took longer to find the Washington snipers as serial killing is, statistically, an unusual crime for blacks to commit. They don't fit the profile.)

There have been studies where you have a split second to decide to use deadly force or not (in a virtual scenario). They studied a range of people and occupations, and the majority of them (including other blacks) were quicker to tighten up on the trigger at the sight of a black man than a white man (or a woman, of any race). Police, however, were consistently less likely to actually fire, as they are trained to watch for behaviors, which tended override a personal bias.

Regardless, this is a horribly tragedy and I feel deep sadness for all involved. The family who lost a loved one, the officer going through the horror knowing he took this life - even if it was understandable in the circumstances, and the brothers and sisters in blue of both...are all in my thoughts.

[cityblusuit]

it's possible race may have played a part in this. now hear/read me out before you click ignore. i am in no way calling the officer who fired the shots a racist. however, it is possible, had the off-duty officer been white with a "high and tight" there might have been a delay long enough for a safe ending.

now i'm not saying he had any ill-will towards black people. but most of my coworkers are white. the possibility that a white guy (of course depending on how he looks) chasing a guy with a gun might be a cop would flash through the brain more quickly than it would for a black guy with a gun.

this comes from me getting stopped by other cops that dont know me at the station asking what my business is there. i've talked to other black cops that have also had the same experience. it happens a hell of a lot more than it does to my white counterparts (again, i'm not counting those that work in an undercover capacity and have to look dirty).

im not judging what anyone did, just throwing out a possibility. ultimately this incident was a tragedy for all parties involved.

Sir your words ring true, very true, not with the intent of labeling a whole group but the reality of our everyday exposure. Other postings on these forums address race in a very different manner and are typically seen as very onesided. This is the other side and it is VERY REAL.

This is a truly sad and tragic event. We all take the mindset of saying that we do not know what was giong through the other officers mind and we try to refrain from monday morning quarterbacking. This is where the schism begins and sometimes things do become as clear as black and white. As a minority officer I can recount countless incidents in plain clothes (on and off duty) that had the potential to go south. The only thing that kept it from going south was my brass pass. In a hot situation no one has that luxury, they really do not. Among others, NYPD had had an extraordinary amount of friendly fire OIS's in which the casualty was a non white plainclothes or off duty officer.

The makeup of black police officers is not representative of the populations they serve. In Chicago the black population is about 40%, in the police department it is about 18%. In the state of Arizona the black population is about 3%....in Arizona Law Enforcement it is considerably less. If we look at other cities and states the number would be just as limited. We profess our disgust and denial when it comes to racial profiling but in the end it is what it is and it is done everyday, in this case with catastrophic results.