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  • bigcop97
    replied
    Originally posted by Biggy Smallz
    So when you arrest someone, your not punishing them? Your taking their freedom to do as they please away. I would say that's a pretty harsh punishment (to some folks.)
    We only charge them with a crime... they are not guilty of anything at the time of arrest... we dont decide the punishment for what they have done...

    Reference initially taking freedom: Our arrest action is determined by the courts and county attorneys preference, not ours.. whether we can cite and release on the spot, arrest and have them booked and released, or arrested and requiring them to post bail... (is not a discretionary tool we can use to inflict additional sanctions for our arrest) We are simply an agent of a bigger "system"... taking freedom is what judges and jurys do..

    Leave a comment:


  • ateamer
    replied
    -The deputy was way out of line. He should have handled her a lot better. And yes, I am a law enforcement officer. Twenty years and counting, and have been in my fair share of fights. There was no way he needed to slam her face into the wall, or the floor, or punch her repeatedly. He was out of control.

    -It is not our job to punish, especially physically. Tuneups went out on March 3, 1991. Anyone who thinks that it is still okay for an officer to give an attitude adjustment beyond what is reasonable force to end the fight better have a good attorney on retainer.

    Leave a comment:


  • 11b101abn
    replied
    I simply cannot defend the LEO on this. Bad o him.

    That said, some folks should take a hard look in the mirror. Hurting people is on occasion, a necessary part of the job. Not an evil part, just part. Being remorseful about it is non-productive. I have no idea why some folks get so bent out of shape when it comes to putting the Habeus Grabus on someone.

    Leave a comment:


  • ISPY4U2
    replied
    I have defended most officer actions like this shown on this site. In most cases, I think the cops do a fantastic job of minimizing the force used against people with no intent of minimizing the force they use against the cops.

    In this case, I can't find a way to defend this guy. I agree with the LEOs on here who said, "Just close the door." I wouldn't even have a problem with him cuffing her, restraining her, whatever.

    My problem with this is that he didn't JUST do that. He retaliated in anger. I am thankful the LEOs I and my family have dealt with have been more professional and restrained than this guy.

    Leave a comment:


  • JimCorrigan
    replied
    I am a citizen with 16 years in the private security industry.

    Below are two links that give further details about this incident. They are from the Seattle PI that broke the story and obtained and released the original video.

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/..._schene28.html

    http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/s...sp?source=mypi

    Apparently the county prosecutor will press misdemeanor assault charges against the officer. The girl was examined by paramedics and found to have suffered no injuries. If she had the charges would have been a felony assualt.

    "The girl was arrested after she was caught in her parents' car, which had been reported stolen from her parents' Tukwila home. Deputy Travis Brunner spotted the car driving without headlights about 3:45 a.m. on 32nd Avenue South in SeaTac and pulled it over.

    She and another 15-year old girl were arrested and taken to SeaTac City Hall to be fingerprinted before being transported to the youth detention center."


    At the time of the arrest they did not know that she had only taken her parents car without their permission.

    I usually try to get friends and co-workers to withhold judgments that are hostile to police officers when these type of videos come up, like the BART incident shooting, from which very little can be inferred i.e. they were not there, the video shot was from a hand held cell phone that was jittery and told nothing of what was going on before.

    The same for take downs shown from police dashboard cams, usually b&w, without sound and involving a person that is not in yet in restraints. I try to get them to remember that just watching a video does not give you all the facts and police officers are also innocent until proven guilty.

    But this video is difficult to defend. It is from an official police video camera. I am sure she had a really bad attitude and was using foul language to the officers, but to me, simply shutting the door would have diffused the situation. I might think differently if this was some punk scumbag that needed to be taught a lesson, but this little wisp of a girl? That is a judgment call to be sure and I would hope all police officers strive for just that. After all, I think most officers, if they can, would like to avoid taking someone down if only for their own safety's sake.

    This kind of behavior, if it in fact turns out to be unjustified, hurts all police in the eyes of the public.

    Be safe out there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fëanor
    replied
    Originally posted by timmyturner View Post
    Because they have done such a great job already right?
    Irrelevant (besides, you're jumping to conclusions).

    Originally posted by juicesnn4e2
    She assaulted him first, and he restrained her.
    In addition to restraining her he also:

    Kicked her
    Punched her
    Bashed her face against the wall
    Pulled her to the ground using her hair
    Punched her twice in the head while she was pinned face-down on the ground by two officers and unable to move
    Picked her up using only her hair

    He could have accomplished the same thing by forcefully pulling her arms behind her back and cuffing her. That is the definition of excessive use of force.

    But beyond that, as others have pointed out there was no need to even restrain her. She was already in a cell. He could have just closed the cell door and added another charge to her sheet for the 'assault'.
    Last edited by Fëanor; 03-01-2009, 12:06 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nightshift va
    replied
    Originally posted by alexg View Post
    She's 15. I don't care how much she knows about martial arts or what drugs she's on or anything else, two adult male cops can kick her ***, no questions asked. If you think that level of force if necessary, maybe you should find a different career path before you get yourself put in jail and sued.
    Anyone can be sued. If we thought like that we would not react at all. The question is did she receive any real injuries as a result. If not what are you going to sue for she was already in the jail. There should be a more serious reaction to actions like she displayed in a correctional or jail facility because of the danger to the other people working in the jail by the other inmates. Otherwise everyone could just do what they wanted to do. If you are in the jail, a great deal of lattitude needs to be allowed to the jailers and the guards or deputies that work in such a volitle position surrounded by dangerous people. I doubt she will throw her shoes at him again.

    Leave a comment:


  • timmyturner
    replied
    Originally posted by Looker View Post
    Uhhh.... closed the door and called for mom and dad????
    Because they have done such a great job already right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Looker
    replied
    Uhhh.... closed the door and called for mom and dad????

    Leave a comment:


  • Nightshift va
    replied
    Originally posted by Chuofan View Post
    Wow. He picked her up by her hair.
    He took her down by her hair. We were trained to use hair as well when doing take downs and vehicle extractions because there is no permanent harm or injury in hair pulling and it works. I know it looks bad though. It all does but look at her actions also. It never looks pretty when someone is taken down even if the person doing it is very skilled and not sloppy in that action. We always are in the wrong when someone is handled. It's not a pretty job. What would any of you have done that would have looked any better?

    Leave a comment:


  • jeffIL
    replied
    Originally posted by alexg View Post
    She's 15. I don't care how much she knows about martial arts or what drugs she's on or anything else, two adult male cops can kick her ***, no questions asked. If you think that level of force if necessary, maybe you should find a different career path before you get yourself put in jail and sued.
    Weird how I can read someone's post and know theyaren't a cop. Thanks for your opinion but maybe before you come to a law enforcement site and explain the facts to us you should become a cop first.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nightshift va
    replied
    A front snap kick followed by a series of punches (take down not so bad) is all a no-no when you have another deputy their. She is no angel and something has to be done otherwise every other inmate in there will act how ever they want to the guards much less kicking their shoes off intentionally at the guard in spite. He should have just unloaded OC gas in her and closed the door and let her flop around like a fish.
    Last edited by Nightshift va; 03-01-2009, 10:11 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Looker
    replied
    Originally posted by juicesnn4e2
    She assaulted him first, and he restrained her.
    Originally posted by juicesnn4e2
    You dont know this girls skills. For all I know shes a 10 degree black belt. Just because someones a girl, or little, dont take it easy on them. Thats when YOU get hurt.
    You don't really believe that do you?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jester69
    replied
    Id like to know what he was thinking...Im with the guy that says 2 adult males should be able to handle a 15 yr old female regardless of what she is on or what training she has...if not they might not be in the right field.

    Leave a comment:


  • Irishluck31
    replied
    Originally posted by Biggy Smallz
    Although the little brat deserved to be punished for kicking her shoe at the officer, this was NOT the appropriate punishment. The officer put himself and his partner in a very bad position.
    Last time I checked, we don't punish people or kids for anything, thats the courts job.

    Excessive, no matter what happened prior, no matter what we didn't see in the video.

    Better him than me when it comes to the IA.

    Leave a comment:

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