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  • #16
    Originally posted by texaschickeee View Post
    Though I know the differance of what firecop has said, and how JSODEP responded, I thik it was fire cop that took it to personally.
    Wow pretty amazing assumption being you don't know me "personally" Please enlighten me on how you can tell this by what I have posted. Seriously I want how you came to this conclusion.
    This is my Glock, there are many like it, but this one is mine

    "Anything is possible to he who dares" A.G. Spalding

    Comment


    • #17
      I wish someone had quoted your original post. It did come off as being a bit angry, and somewhat rude. I found it slightly offensive, and I'm not even a cop. Your answer to JSO was irritating too.

      You're still young, aren't you? If you already have a weight problem at 22, how are you going to look after 20 years of stress on the job, grabbing meals when and if you can, and having limited food options when you're working nights? If you've managed to get fat and out of shape by your early 20s, you may very well turn out to be one of the cops you're so concerned about. Is that why this is so personal for you?

      I too would like to see officers get more encouragement and assistance with improving their health. But I avoid getting all ****y about it. I suggest you do the same.
      ..................................................

      The Donut Shop : A Cop-Friendly Forum

      (Please PM me for faster admittance.)

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by FireCop86 View Post
        Why is it that departments are so strict on weight into proportion to height and passing a PAT but do not keep up with it once you get hired? From some of the LEO's I have seen on TV (and I could be completely wrong) are so fat I can not understand how they can perform their job effectively. I know this could be a huge officer safety issue if your back up can not even get out of the car with out huffing and puffing.
        I don't know the answer entirely but much of it is internal politics coupled with bad union policy and PC (the poor fat cop deserves a job too). I agree that departmental entrance exams should be given annually, you don’t pass, your out, no make-ups and no second chance.

        The unions have enough power to say that the department cannot make a cop pass a test he wasn’t required to pass part of continued employment when he was hired. Half of the command staff could not pass most tests so they themselves would be put out of work. Too late for implementing policy that should have been in place since the departments inception.

        Comment


        • #19
          There is nothing you could say that would bother me. This is the internet. I deal with idiotic people all the time in the real world. What's one more in cyber land? Judging by your hostility, I can only assume you have alot more maturing to do before you should even consider a job in the field of law enforcement. But then again, what do I know?
          "Valor would cease to be a virtue, if there were no injustice." -Agesilaus the Great

          Comment


          • #20
            I think you have to differentiate between fat or overwieight and truly obese.

            Now without getting into citing specific hieght to weight ratios there are a lot of officers who are overwieght but can more than effectively carryout their job and could probably whoop the poo outta some of the more athletic looking officers. One of the of the officers I was particularly close to in my explorer post was on the overwieght side but he jogged on a regular basis and I saw him TCB a few times. You dont need abs and that pretty little vien on your bicep to be an effective cop.

            However every once in awhile you see an officer that is so big you expect to see them carrying around the 02 bottle around behind them. Although seeing officers this big is rare, I think I've seen a few in my life and I just assume that they are probably working behind a desk at that point anyways.
            Last edited by Citizen85; 09-23-2008, 01:32 PM.
            "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

            — John Stuart Mill

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by FireCop86 View Post
              What's wrong with watching Cops? So let's say I made a mistake in judgement and that these officers can still preform the basic skills of an officer. What about other cops who can not? Why are they still allowed to be a police officer? Why do more departments not have physical agility standards?
              Again, how can you judge an LEO out there on whether they can perform their duties? You simply can not! Get the job first, then you might have some input. Until then, quit with the assumptions on LEO's who are over weight. I know of several LEO's that have been on the job for 15 plus yrs and have difficulty at some of their job functions, however they will back you up any day, anytime, anywhere and will perform their job to the fullest. Do you think that you are the teh best at the job you have now (if you do?) since you mentioned you are overweight? Why not get off the internet and go run a mile? Go work out, get your goal that you seem to strive for and stop being so negative about certain LE types!

              There are many agencies that have agility/PT requirements to get hired. However it's up to the individual to maintain their physical readiness after training, etc.

              I just think you have taken one little tv show to the extreme, even after changing your original post. Chill out.
              "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

              Comment


              • #22
                anyone else happen to see an episode of cops, i believe they were in rialto, california and they were in a foot chase with a skinny guy, and the cop was caught him was very fat, and they fat cop said about 3 times, "whats it like to know you got caught by a fat cop". "im fat and i caught you, you cant run from the fat cop and get away" Must have been a big ego boost for the cop with the cameras rolling. it was pretty funny

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by irishlad2nv View Post
                  Again, how can you judge an LEO out there on whether they can perform their duties? You simply can not! Get the job first, then you might have some input. Until then, quit with the assumptions on LEO's who are over weight. I know of several LEO's that have been on the job for 15 plus yrs and have difficulty at some of their job functions, however they will back you up any day, anytime, anywhere and will perform their job to the fullest. Do you think that you are the teh best at the job you have now (if you do?) since you mentioned you are overweight? Why not get off the internet and go run a mile? Go work out, get your goal that you seem to strive for and stop being so negative about certain LE types!

                  There are many agencies that have agility/PT requirements to get hired. However it's up to the individual to maintain their physical readiness after training, etc.

                  I just think you have taken one little tv show to the extreme, even after changing your original post. Chill out.
                  Pretty sure this was well said. +1

                  #2: MaineSqueeze, there was a Police Officer that caught a skinny guy with one foot. One Foot > Fat Cop.
                  The statements posted on here are of my own and does not represent any agency that I am in process with, was in process with or will be in process with.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wow, Interesting responses.

                    I'm a Sworn Cop, Have been for almost 10 years with a brief 6 year jaunt into a different job.

                    I guess that gives me the right to say:

                    Cops should not be fat.

                    That's right. The "I would rather have a fat old guy than a skinny rookie" line is crap.

                    Whichever one of you took the Psych class should also be familiar with the term "Rationalization"

                    Let me clarify what “Fat” is as well. If you gain five pounds in the winter because you cannot run and you like football, Fine. That’s not the fat I’m talking about.

                    I’m talking about “Wow, I need a larger size duty belt.” Fat.

                    Fat Cops:

                    q Die of heart Attacks/Diabetes/Strokes.

                    q Hurt themselves trying to do easy things like climb over fences, or even getting out of the car.

                    q Do not run as fast as they could if they were lighter (you might think you’re fast enough, but wouldn’t it be nice to be faster?)

                    q Give a visual impression of weakness/sloppiness, = poor authoritave presence.

                    I know there’s the “Try to eat right and exercise on my schedule” argument. That’s great and all but we are talking about DYING here. Anyone who has time to post on the internet has time to take a couple laps.

                    And yes, I know what it’s like. I have a two year old, I work 10 hour days here in Okinawa and I work 16-20 hour days the 200+ days I am working off the island.

                    It’s great that overweight cops can still do their job, but they could do it better and have a generally easier time with life if they were lighter.

                    M-11
                    “All men dream...... But not equally..
                    Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                    but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                    for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                    TE Lawrence

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Opening Pandors'a Box

                      Originally posted by FireCop86 View Post
                      Could be. I know an officer that works in that department I should ask. Does your dept now have a yearly PT test or something like that?
                      This is kind of a no win situation. (This is also one of my long winded posts, so sit back.)

                      About 85% of the people in my agency go out on disability retirements and we have some pretty high workers comp bills. In an attempt to reduce those numbers, around 20 years ago we implemented mandatory physical performance testing on an annual basis. Everyone hired after that time had to pass the test if they wanted to keep their jobs. Everyone hired before that date was grandfathered in and was exempt. As a bonus, you got an extra $130 per month for passing the test.

                      The logic here was that people would maintain physical fitness throughout the year. Weight would be kept down, heart, blood pressure and stress claims would be minimized, back and other ortho injuries from altercations, foot pursuits, lifting, etc. all would be reduced. It was also believed that the reduction in workers comp and disability retirement costs that would result, would more than cover the cost of the program. Boy, were they wrong.

                      Humans tend to be lazy. Few officers kept in shape year round. Instead, officers started working out a month or two before the testing period began, in a crash course to get back into shape. But, trying to get back into shape too quickly is the easiest way to injure yourself. Because staying in shape to pass the annual test was now a job requirement, injuring yourself while maintain your physical condition now became a work related injury. The workers comp and disability retirement costs for "getting in shape" injuries far exceeded any savings we were seeing from the original program and we had to abandon the mandatory physical performance requirement.

                      Whether you test everyone or just officers you have specific concerns about, the next question is, what will your physical standards be? You will have to carefully define the tasks that must be performed by all officers but more importantly, show that they are realistic and have a valid relationship to the job. That takes lots of time, research and money that many small agencies don't have.

                      If you don't test everyone, then you need to decide what the criteria will be for testing those officers you have concerns about. Remember, we are talking about physical abilities, making this a medical issue, which brings the Americans with Disabilities Act into play. You are going to have to define a reasonable basis for subjecting the officer to the test. Just because they are overweight or you "think" they can't do the job isn't going to cut it. To avoid an ADA discrimination lawsuit, you must articulate specific facts (failed to perform on a call, observed inabilties, etc.) before you mandate a test.

                      The next issue is, what do you do with the officer if he fails the test? If you are in California, refuse him further employment and he can show that there is a work relationship (no matter how slight) to the condition that renders him unable perform your critical physical tasks, your department is on the hook for his disability retirement and workers comp costs. Bear that in mind as you check your budget.

                      Next comes the discrimination issue. If you force him out, what about the other officers who have similar limitations but are not working in the field? For example, in 1998 I sustained a work related injury. The department doctor told me it was serious enough that he would recommend a disability retirement if I wished him to do so. At the time I was in an administrative position that I enjoyed and the limitations imposed by the injury only had a minimal impact on my work, so I declined his offer. I was able to work for another seven years in an admin slot before things became bad enough that I had to retire. There are tons of people like myself in police agencies across the country. If you mandate that one impaired officer must go, you face discrimination charges unless you weed out and terminate all of the others with similar limitations, even if they are not in active enforcement positions. If you do this, you may lose 1/4 of your department overnight. Again, this may pose severe budgetary issues, not only in workers comp and disability retirement costs, but also in recruiting, academy and FTO costs, not to mention the brain drain in older, experienced personnel who have accumulated so many injuries over the years.

                      The whole point to this is, once you are in, there are so many obstacles to removing unfit employees that unless you give your employer significant legal cause, there is little that can be done to remove you. Even if it was easy, it is not practical from a financial and operational point of view.
                      Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Here's an easy solution.

                        Everyone has a year to get ready.

                        Everyone has to do one "Good" pullup every week at turnover.

                        That's all. That's the test. Goes for women too. If my wife can do them, anyone can.

                        No run, stretch, stairs, nothing. Just one pullup and I think you'd be in good enough shape for anything.

                        It could easily be tied to the "Ability to do the job"

                        M-11
                        “All men dream...... But not equally..
                        Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                        but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                        for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                        TE Lawrence

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by M-11 View Post
                          Wow, Interesting responses.

                          I'm a Sworn Cop, Have been for almost 10 years with a brief 6 year jaunt into a different job.

                          I guess that gives me the right to say:

                          Cops should not be fat.

                          That's right. The "I would rather have a fat old guy than a skinny rookie" line is crap.

                          Whichever one of you took the Psych class should also be familiar with the term "Rationalization"

                          Let me clarify what “Fat” is as well. If you gain five pounds in the winter because you cannot run and you like football, Fine. That’s not the fat I’m talking about.


                          It’s great that overweight cops can still do their job, but they could do it better and have a generally easier time with life if they were lighter.

                          M-11

                          Didn't know AD military were "sworn LE".

                          Anyway, I think all of us on here are going to weigh in on our opinions. I stick by mine. If you are in LE and can perform your job and are "fat" as this seems to be the proper word, well only that individual officer will need to change their appearance if needed. However that can be up to the specific agency as well.

                          However then their are the LEO's out there that are alcoholics, drug addicts, bad health, smokers....shall I do on? Do you think that a smoker should be in a uniform or let alone be a LEO, since not are LE wear uniforms or ride in patrol cars? Just curious as to your opinion here.

                          I not fat, nor will I ever be. However I take care of myself, but there are and wil be several days if not weeks where I do not have the time to take care of my body. So be it, part of my career path. And the "fat" ones as well.
                          "An excuse is worse and more terrible than a lie, for an excuse is a lie guarded."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Didn't know AD military were "sworn LE".
                            They are not.

                            I am.

                            FLETC, Badge, Creds, Concealed, the whole She-bang. They'll let anybody in this place.

                            M-11
                            Last edited by M-11; 09-23-2008, 04:24 PM.
                            “All men dream...... But not equally..
                            Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                            but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                            for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                            TE Lawrence

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I am not rationalizing anything. I have always been on the larger size. I graduated the academy @ 260 lbs. Lucky for me I am 6'4 and played football until I graduated from college. I am sure there are plenty of people who think I am fat. I am sure there are plenty others that think I am a massive individual. I don't really care either way. I do my job to the best of my abilities everyday.
                              In as far as the pull up test, I would rather you had to go toe to toe with somebody for 5 minutes every year to include ground fighting and grappling to show that you can hold your own until the cavalry arrives. You may be able to do 100 pull ups, if you can't fight your way out of a wet paper bag it means nothing.
                              "Valor would cease to be a virtue, if there were no injustice." -Agesilaus the Great

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by M-11 View Post
                                Wow, Interesting responses.

                                I'm a Sworn Cop, Have been for almost 10 years with a brief 6 year jaunt into a different job.

                                I guess that gives me the right to say:

                                Cops should not be fat.

                                That's right. The "I would rather have a fat old guy than a skinny rookie" line is crap.

                                Whichever one of you took the Psych class should also be familiar with the term "Rationalization"

                                Let me clarify what “Fat” is as well. If you gain five pounds in the winter because you cannot run and you like football, Fine. That’s not the fat I’m talking about.

                                I’m talking about “Wow, I need a larger size duty belt.” Fat.

                                Fat Cops:

                                q Die of heart Attacks/Diabetes/Strokes.

                                q Hurt themselves trying to do easy things like climb over fences, or even getting out of the car.

                                q Do not run as fast as they could if they were lighter (you might think you’re fast enough, but wouldn’t it be nice to be faster?)

                                q Give a visual impression of weakness/sloppiness, = poor authoritave presence.

                                I know there’s the “Try to eat right and exercise on my schedule” argument. That’s great and all but we are talking about DYING here. Anyone who has time to post on the internet has time to take a couple laps.

                                And yes, I know what it’s like. I have a two year old, I work 10 hour days here in Okinawa and I work 16-20 hour days the 200+ days I am working off the island.

                                It’s great that overweight cops can still do their job, but they could do it better and have a generally easier time with life if they were lighter.

                                M-11
                                I agree with you.

                                If you take a look of the member counts in the forums. The firearms forum is one of the most active forums. The health and fitness forums is one of the slowest.

                                Comment

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