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  • Cubfan
    replied
    I mean who's gonna fight when once the miltary moves in?
    Okay, so a hurricane isn't moving them, they refused local authorites order to move. What makes you think the military is going to persuade them? How does urban assault training make the military qualified to evacuate a civilian community?
    Brilliant rebuttal.
    Except for one thing.
    The point.
    If I am missing the point, perhaps you can clarify it for me with links to laws pertaining to this or recent examples of such evacuations?
    Ever see Shindlers List? I'm pretty sure a massive evac could go a lot like that scene in which he see's the girl in the red dress.
    I'm not trying to be a smart***, I just cannot see how Nazi's clearing a Jewish Ghetto would be similar to our military evacuating a civilian populace out of the path of a storm. Are you saying they go in with assault rifles and dogs, yelling and screaming and shoot anyone that does not obey? That is "the point" I do not get.

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  • midnight_v
    replied
    Brilliant rebuttal.
    Except for one thing.
    The point.
    The point is that forced evactuations are entirely enforcable.
    (regardless if you try to use reducio ad absurdem or not).
    A military force can round up a non-military populace with relative ease.

    (Misdirection is a powerful tool though. Keep practicing. )

    Leave a comment:


  • Cubfan
    replied
    Originally posted by midnight_v View Post
    Ever see Shindlers List? I'm pretty sure a massive evac could go a lot like that scene in which he see's the girl in the red dress.
    I mean our military has spent the last 6 years dealing with fighting in domestic areas against variably armed natives.
    Seems reasonable that if they sent in an army unit they'd be able to do a pretty thourough round up. Further, many people will just line up to be evactuate. I mean who's gonna fight when once the miltary moves in? You?

    Oh yeah its enforceable alright...
    Except for 2 things;
    (a)This isn't a movie
    (b) This is not Nazi occupied Poland.
    Last edited by Cubfan; 09-28-2008, 05:01 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • midnight_v
    replied
    Ever see Shindlers List? I'm pretty sure a massive evac could go a lot like that scene in which he see's the girl in the red dress.
    I mean our military has spent the last 6 years dealing with fighting in domestic areas against variably armed natives.
    Seems reasonable that if they sent in an army unit they'd be able to do a pretty thourough round up. Further, many people will just line up to be evactuate. I mean who's gonna fight when once the miltary moves in? You?

    Oh yeah its enforceable alright...

    Leave a comment:


  • midnight_v
    replied
    Ever see Shindlers List? I'm pretty sure a massive evac could go a lot like that scene in which he see's the girl in the red dress.
    I mean our military has spent the last 6 years dealing with fighting in domestic areas against variably armed natives.
    Seems reasonable that if they sent in an army unit they'd be able to do a pretty thourough round up. Further, many people will just line up to be evactuate. I mean who's gonna fight when once the miltary moves in? You?

    Oh yeah its enforceable alright...

    Leave a comment:


  • DaOneandOnly
    replied
    An instructor of mine in the academy told us an effective way getting people to evacuate their house. You kindly explain that they need to leave and ask them to do so. If they say no, then ask them for their next of kin information. He said that it works like a charm.

    Leave a comment:


  • mdrdep
    replied
    Originally posted by Citizen85 View Post
    See now what you guys are saying is pretty much what I thought. There may technically be laws in that the government can evacuate people against their will but it is not actually practiced in that manner.

    Some of the stuff I read seemed like governors and mayors are usually the ones who declare evacuations although on some level it seems like first responders do as well.
    Most of the laws are written so that ENTRY into a disaster area is illegal. Already being there is kind of a loophole.

    Leave a comment:


  • Citizen85
    replied
    See now what you guys are saying is pretty much what I thought. There may technically be laws in that the government can evacuate people against their will but it is not actually practiced in that manner.

    Some of the stuff I read seemed like governors and mayors are usually the ones who declare evacuations although on some level it seems like first responders do as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • LA DEP
    replied
    As MDRdep said, all we can do is try and convince them to leave......

    Pretty much all a 'mandatory evac' means here is that if you leave the area, you are not getting back in; and if you dont leave, we arent risking much in the way of resources to come rescue you......

    Leave a comment:


  • TexasAggieOfc
    replied
    There is no real mandatory evacuation in Texas... Texas operates under Spanish common law, not English common law, and under Spanish law, your house is your house and you cannot be compelled to leave it under any circumstances, except for the constiutionally allowed eminent domain

    Leave a comment:


  • texaschickeee
    replied
    ^ He did that to four people (2 couples) and that was it. the rest...well...
    are gone but not found yet. I read MSNBC that they think it did like katrina, washed them out to sea. I hope we dont spend millions looking for them out there.

    Leave a comment:


  • mdrdep
    replied
    You try and convince everyone to leave. If they refuse you make sure they understand they are on their own and that we will not risk our lives to come back and save them.

    I saw an interesting one on the news during Ike. A chief of police was trying to get people to evacuate. One couple refused. He then asked that they at least write their name and social security numbers on their arms in permanent marker so he could easily identify their remains after the storm. They got the point and agreed to leave.

    Leave a comment:


  • texaschickeee
    replied
    I can't think of the "legal terms" that are used but its called...marshall law to mandate, and its for safety sake.
    LE go door to door and make sue people that are not gone at this point go, and no they do not do it at gun point. Its enacted by the County Judge and the mayors of cities. This is done only for safety sake. I Know at Galveston what happen was they cleared themselves as they stated we enacted it, you were told and if you have any emergencies- your on your on. If we CAN get to you after wards we will try.
    that pretty much clear as mud?

    Leave a comment:


  • velobard
    replied
    As I understand it, the law allowing enforcement of this varies from state to state.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fëanor
    replied
    Originally posted by Citizen85 View Post
    In reading some material on the subject it seems there are some who think that people who disobey evac orders and then need subsequent rescueing should be subject to a fine
    While this sounds all fine and dandy it doesn't quite work. In the middle of a giant disaster who will document all the people who refused to be evacuated?

    What if a rescuer dies during the rescue of someone who refused to evacuate? How much of a fine will we charge in exchange for that rescuer's life?

    Leave a comment:

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