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  • Evacuations

    I was talking with some of my friends the other day about evacuations and how enforceable a mandatory evacuation is. My understanding is the mandatory evacuations are technically binding but I was hard pressed to recall an example of the police literally going door to door and using force to evacuate unwilling people, particularly in relation to a storm.

    I guess our conversation was mainly regarding massive evacuations but in practice I could see that the broader issue comes up everyday, say when the house next to yours catches on fire I could see the police forcibly removing you from your residence in that case.

    In reading some material on the subject it seems there are some who think that people who disobey evac orders and then need subsequent rescueing should be subject to a fine and some who think it is more reasonable to force people to evacuate if they have children.

    I wanted to see what everyone thought:
    "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

    — John Stuart Mill

  • #2
    Originally posted by Citizen85 View Post
    In reading some material on the subject it seems there are some who think that people who disobey evac orders and then need subsequent rescueing should be subject to a fine
    While this sounds all fine and dandy it doesn't quite work. In the middle of a giant disaster who will document all the people who refused to be evacuated?

    What if a rescuer dies during the rescue of someone who refused to evacuate? How much of a fine will we charge in exchange for that rescuer's life?

    Comment


    • #3
      As I understand it, the law allowing enforcement of this varies from state to state.

      Comment


      • #4
        I can't think of the "legal terms" that are used but its called...marshall law to mandate, and its for safety sake.
        LE go door to door and make sue people that are not gone at this point go, and no they do not do it at gun point. Its enacted by the County Judge and the mayors of cities. This is done only for safety sake. I Know at Galveston what happen was they cleared themselves as they stated we enacted it, you were told and if you have any emergencies- your on your on. If we CAN get to you after wards we will try.
        that pretty much clear as mud?
        ‘Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.’
        Oscar Wilde

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        • #5
          You try and convince everyone to leave. If they refuse you make sure they understand they are on their own and that we will not risk our lives to come back and save them.

          I saw an interesting one on the news during Ike. A chief of police was trying to get people to evacuate. One couple refused. He then asked that they at least write their name and social security numbers on their arms in permanent marker so he could easily identify their remains after the storm. They got the point and agreed to leave.
          Today's Quote:

          "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
          Albert Einstein

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          • #6
            ^ He did that to four people (2 couples) and that was it. the rest...well...
            are gone but not found yet. I read MSNBC that they think it did like katrina, washed them out to sea. I hope we dont spend millions looking for them out there.
            ‘Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.’
            Oscar Wilde

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            • #7
              There is no real mandatory evacuation in Texas... Texas operates under Spanish common law, not English common law, and under Spanish law, your house is your house and you cannot be compelled to leave it under any circumstances, except for the constiutionally allowed eminent domain
              sigpic
              Let your watchword be duty, and know no other talisman of success than labor. Let honor be your guiding star in your dealing with your superiors, with your fellows, with all. Be as true to a trust reposed as the needle to the pole. Stand by the right even to the sacrifice of life itself, and learn that death is preferable to dishonor. ~ Gov. Richard Coke, October 4, 1876

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              • #8
                As MDRdep said, all we can do is try and convince them to leave......

                Pretty much all a 'mandatory evac' means here is that if you leave the area, you are not getting back in; and if you dont leave, we arent risking much in the way of resources to come rescue you......
                The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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                • #9
                  See now what you guys are saying is pretty much what I thought. There may technically be laws in that the government can evacuate people against their will but it is not actually practiced in that manner.

                  Some of the stuff I read seemed like governors and mayors are usually the ones who declare evacuations although on some level it seems like first responders do as well.
                  "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”

                  — John Stuart Mill

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Citizen85 View Post
                    See now what you guys are saying is pretty much what I thought. There may technically be laws in that the government can evacuate people against their will but it is not actually practiced in that manner.

                    Some of the stuff I read seemed like governors and mayors are usually the ones who declare evacuations although on some level it seems like first responders do as well.
                    Most of the laws are written so that ENTRY into a disaster area is illegal. Already being there is kind of a loophole.
                    Today's Quote:

                    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
                    Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      An instructor of mine in the academy told us an effective way getting people to evacuate their house. You kindly explain that they need to leave and ask them to do so. If they say no, then ask them for their next of kin information. He said that it works like a charm.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ever see Shindlers List? I'm pretty sure a massive evac could go a lot like that scene in which he see's the girl in the red dress.
                        I mean our military has spent the last 6 years dealing with fighting in domestic areas against variably armed natives.
                        Seems reasonable that if they sent in an army unit they'd be able to do a pretty thourough round up. Further, many people will just line up to be evactuate. I mean who's gonna fight when once the miltary moves in? You?

                        Oh yeah its enforceable alright...
                        They will all look up to me and shout, "Save us!", and I will whisper back... "No."

                        LAW is not JUSTICE

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ever see Shindlers List? I'm pretty sure a massive evac could go a lot like that scene in which he see's the girl in the red dress.
                          I mean our military has spent the last 6 years dealing with fighting in domestic areas against variably armed natives.
                          Seems reasonable that if they sent in an army unit they'd be able to do a pretty thourough round up. Further, many people will just line up to be evactuate. I mean who's gonna fight when once the miltary moves in? You?

                          Oh yeah its enforceable alright...
                          They will all look up to me and shout, "Save us!", and I will whisper back... "No."

                          LAW is not JUSTICE

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by midnight_v View Post
                            Ever see Shindlers List? I'm pretty sure a massive evac could go a lot like that scene in which he see's the girl in the red dress.
                            I mean our military has spent the last 6 years dealing with fighting in domestic areas against variably armed natives.
                            Seems reasonable that if they sent in an army unit they'd be able to do a pretty thourough round up. Further, many people will just line up to be evactuate. I mean who's gonna fight when once the miltary moves in? You?

                            Oh yeah its enforceable alright...
                            Except for 2 things;
                            (a)This isn't a movie
                            (b) This is not Nazi occupied Poland.
                            Last edited by Cubfan; 09-28-2008, 05:01 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Brilliant rebuttal.
                              Except for one thing.
                              The point.
                              The point is that forced evactuations are entirely enforcable.
                              (regardless if you try to use reducio ad absurdem or not).
                              A military force can round up a non-military populace with relative ease.

                              (Misdirection is a powerful tool though. Keep practicing. )
                              They will all look up to me and shout, "Save us!", and I will whisper back... "No."

                              LAW is not JUSTICE

                              Comment

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