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  • #46
    nemoleg = owned

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    • #47
      Interesting how my views changed of 2 years being on this board.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Monty Ealerman View Post
        62 nanofarad = 6.2e-8 coulomb/volt.
        Energy in joules equals one half farads times volts squared.
        0.5*0.0000000062*6250000=0.019375
        OK so your fictional device can deliver about .02 joules.
        The real devices deliver up to about 100 times that much energy.
        Your fictional device obviously doesn't have capacity sufficient to incapacitate anyone. I think it's quite clear that you're being deceptive.

        Not very specific. The real devices use compressed nitrogen. They can send the projectiles at about 180 fps for about 15 feet.

        In the real devices the body of the projectile is made to be massive enough to deliver enough momentum to allow the contact to penetrate clothing.

        Volts times amps equals watts.
        One watt equals one joule per second.
        9.6V*0.6A=5.76W
        So you've got 3600 charges of 5.76 joule available in your battery.
        But your 64nF capacitor at 2500V can deliver only about .02 joule to the target.

        The real devices use about 50KV to establish the contact and then drop to about 1.2KV for about 20 pulses per second, as distinguished from your fictional devices, which charges to only 2.5KV max.

        You're apparently referring to the AC frequency here. I was asking about the rate of delvery of shock pulses. You didn't properly answer the question.

        So your fictional device presumably doesn't have multiple shots connected to the device at the same time.

        So it was in a stopped state regarding the previous round before the end of the trigger moving.
        Obviously, you consider yourself a great specialist in the field of remote electro-shock devices.
        Energy of S5 capacitors: 0.5*0.000000062*6250000=0,19375 J
        You made a mistake in your calculations to ten times.
        For comparison, the energy stored in capacitors Taser X26 - 0,36 J. But the energy stored in a capacitor, it is not a primary indicator of disabling. For example, the energy stored in capacitors Taser M26 - 1,76 J. However, the M26 and X26 have approximately the same efficiency disabling.
        Parameters of a pulse have much more value. Basis disabling Taser - effects on motor neurons that control muscles. Impact of electrical pulse describes well the functional dependence of the “Strength-Duration” (also known in biophysics as a function of “Weiss-Lapicque”). At Biophysics have such concepts as “chronaxie” and “rheobase”. Without going into details, rheobase - a parameter characterizing the current, the chronaxie - a parameter characterizing the duration. Chronaxie the motor neurons is about 100 microseconds. The greater the duration of electric pulse in comparison with chronaxie, the greater its effectiveness to control the motor neurons.
        In the Taser M26 pulse duration (main wave) is about 8-10 microseconds (Depending on load). The amplitude of the current M26 (main wave) at 1000 Ohm load - about 14 Amperes.
        In the Taser Х26 pulse duration (main wave) is about 80-100 microseconds (Depending on load). The amplitude of the current X26 (main wave) at 1000 Ohm load - about 2 Amperes.
        According to the functional dependence of the "Weiss-Lapicque", effect on motor neurons is achieved in M26 mainly due to the current strength, but in the X26 - mainly due to the pulse duration.
        For comparison, in the S5 pulse duration (main wave) is about 120-140 microseconds (Depending on load). The amplitude of the current prototype S5 (main wave) at 1000 Ohm load - about 1,5 Amperes. Parameters of electrical impulse S5 effective to control the motor neurons.
        Another important parameter - pulse rate. Taser pulse rate - about 20 Hz. 20 Hz - a frequency range the “tetanus” large skeletal muscles. (Tetanus - is when the muscles are excited by a series of electrical pulses, have no time to relax and enter into a permanent contraction. It is known that the smaller the size muscles, the greater the frequency of tetanus. Therefore, the higher pulse rate, the greater the number of muscles (different sizes) are able to enter in tetanus.
        S5 pulse rate - about 100-150 Hz. The higher the pulse rate - the more muscles can be in tetanus. Therefore, the immobilizing effect of S5 is better than the Taser (it see in tests on a pig).
        Other effect the pulse rate - influence on the central nervous system. At sufficiently high pulse rate becomes possible "inhibition" of the central nervous system, providing long-term disabling using short electrical discharge. The possibility of long-term disabling is in the range the pulse rate of 100-300Hz (depending on the parameters of a single pulse). Obviously, this is not the range of Taser pulse rate.
        Obviously you think that the development of electro-shock devices are only in the U.S. and Taser is the only worthy of attention the technology of electroshock devices. However, it is not. See links in topic Russian man aims to reinvent 'taser' technology
        For example, effect of long-term disabling used the electro-shock devices, which are equipped with Russian police. Recent studies indicate the possibility of disabling at the time to several minutes after exposure to electrical discharge duration of 1 second.
        Taser International devices use compressed nitrogen for one reason - that the device is not classified the ВАТF as an firearms. It's a secret for you?
        Then I tell you another secret. Energy the primer, which is used in the cartridge Taser to pierce the cylinder with compressed nitrogen, enough to start up the probes and without the cylinder with compressed nitrogen. The cylinder with compressed nitrogen - just a ploy for Ð’ATF. It's a also secret for you?
        I tell you another secret. The power supply NiMH 600mAh able to provide a current 8-10 Amps (and, briefly up to 14 amps or more). 0,6 Amps, you are using in their calculations battery power - is ridiculous.
        I could go on, but I'm sorry my time. I think that it is useless. I am confident that you will cling to every detail and inaccurate translation, but will not admit that you were wrong.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by nemoleg View Post
          Obviously, you consider yourself a great specialist in the field of remote electro-shock devices.
          Nope.

          Energy of S5 capacitors: 0.5*0.000000062*6250000=0,19375 J
          You made a mistake in your calculations to ten times.
          Oops. You're right about that. I accidentally double-keyed an extra 0 into my calculator when I was converting from scientific notation. So your fictional device delivers about 1/10 rather than about 1/100 of the energy delivered by the real devices. That's still not enough for your fictional device to incapacitate anyone.

          For comparison, the energy stored in capacitors Taser X26 - 0,36 J. But the energy stored in a capacitor, it is not a primary indicator of disabling. For example, the energy stored in capacitors Taser M26 - 1,76 J. However, the M26 and X26 have approximately the same efficiency disabling.
          I don't know the internals of the real devices or about differences in the various models. I just know that some of the real devices deliver about 2 joule. It's my understanding that the amount of energy delivered is based on capacitor discharge.

          Parameters of a pulse have much more value. Basis disabling Taser - effects on motor neurons that control muscles. Impact of electrical pulse describes well the functional dependence of the “Strength-Duration” (also known in biophysics as a function of “Weiss-Lapicque”). At Biophysics have such concepts as “chronaxie” and “rheobase”. Without going into details, rheobase - a parameter characterizing the current, the chronaxie - a parameter characterizing the duration. Chronaxie the
          motor neurons is about 100 microseconds. The greater the duration of electric pulse in comparison with chronaxie, the greater its effectiveness to control the motor neurons.
          I know neurophysiology well enough.

          In the Taser M26 pulse duration (main wave) is about 8-10 microseconds (Depending on load).
          It's about 100 microseconds.

          The amplitude of the current M26 (main wave) at 1000 Ohm load - about 14 Amperes.
          According to the Instructor's manual the M26 delivers about 3.6 milliamps(.0036 amps) and the M26 delivers about 2.1 milliamps (.0021 amps). I don't whether they're referring to one side of the wave or peak-to-peak but it's still milliamps and not amps.



          In the Taser ?26 pulse duration (main wave) is about 80-100 microseconds (Depending on load). The amplitude of the current X26 (main wave) at 1000 Ohm load - about 2 Amperes.
          What? You just got done saying it was "8-10 microseconds". And the X26 delivers about 2.1 milliamps.

          According to the functional dependence of the "Weiss-Lapicque", effect on motor neurons is achieved in M26 mainly due to the current strength, but in the X26 - mainly due to the pulse duration.
          It's true that the M26 has a higher current strength than the X26. The effectiveness of the real devices is due to a combination of factors. I don't think any of them should be viewed in isolation as the main factor.

          For comparison, in the S5 pulse duration (main wave) is about 120-140 microseconds (Depending on load). The amplitude of the current prototype S5 (main wave) at 1000 Ohm load - about 1,5 Amperes. Parameters of electrical impulse S5 effective to control the motor neurons.
          That's in the range of a 100 joule hospital defribrillator.

          Another important parameter - pulse rate. Taser pulse rate - about 20 Hz. 20 Hz - a frequency range the “tetanus” large skeletal muscles.
          Yes.

          (Tetanus - is when the muscles are excited by a series of electrical pulses, have no time to relax and enter into a permanent contraction. It is known that the smaller the size muscles, the greater the frequency of tetanus. Therefore, the higher pulse rate, the greater the number of muscles (different sizes) are able to enter in tetanus.
          S5 pulse rate - about 100-150 Hz. The higher the pulse rate - the more muscles can be in tetanus. Therefore, the immobilizing effect of S5 is better than the Taser (it see in tests on a pig).
          The object is to immobilize the recipient by locking up the large muscles. It's not necessary to mess with his eye muscles. 20 pulses per second seems to work well enough.

          Other effect the pulse rate - influence on the central nervous system. At sufficiently high pulse rate becomes possible "inhibition" of the central nervous system, providing long-term disabling using short electrical discharge. The possibility of long-term disabling is in the range the pulse rate of 100-300Hz
          (depending on the parameters of a single pulse). Obviously, this is not the range of Taser pulse rate.
          NMI does not require "long-term disabling" of the CNS.

          Obviously you think that the development of electro-shock devices are only in the U.S. and Taser is the only worthy of attention the technology of electroshock devices.
          I don't think that is either expressed or implied in anything I've said.

          However, it is not. See links in topic Russian man aims to reinvent 'taser' technology For example, effect of long-term disabling used the electro-shock devices, which are equipped with Russian police.
          You still have yet to post any links to scholarly articles. You just keep pushing your propaganda. I've read about the Russian Police having shock batons but I haven't seen any serious technical information about them.

          Recent studies indicate the possibility of disabling at the time to several minutes after exposure to electrical discharge duration of 1 second.
          You didn't link to or cite the "recent studies".

          Taser International devices use compressed nitrogen for one reason - that the device is not classified the ???F as an firearms. It's a secret for you? Then I tell you another secret. Energy the primer, which is used in the cartridge Taser to pierce the cylinder with compressed nitrogen, enough to start up the probes and without the cylinder with compressed nitrogen. The cylinder with
          compressed nitrogen - just a ploy for ?ATF. It's a also secret for you? I tell you another secret.
          That's not the reason. The compressed air propellant is used to provide a precise and consistent delivery capability. We've long had non-lethal firearms for LE. No company that makes them is worried about admitting they're firearms. Sometimes a non-combustion-based propulsion system is the preferred option.

          The power supply NiMH 600mAh able to provide a current 8-10 Amps (and, briefly up to 14 amps or more). 0,6 Amps, you are using in their calculations battery power - is ridiculous.
          600mA = 0.6Amps. Small NiMH batteries are typically electronically limited to about a 1C or 2C draw. Assuming yours are 10C or 15C rated, then yes, you could pull amperages in the ranges you specified. 10C means you could draw 360 charges of 57.6 joule. But even so, your fictional device with its 64nF capacitor at 24KV is still able to deliver only about .2 joule (accepting your correction of my earlier calling it .02 joule) to the recipient, and that's not enough energy to produce incapacitation.

          I could go on, but I'm sorry my time. I think that it is useless. I am confident that you will cling to every detail and inaccurate translation, but will not admit that you were wrong.
          It's a fictional device. I admitted to being off by a digit when I converted 62e-8 to decimal notation. Perhaps you will admit you were wrong to present fiction as fact.
          Last edited by Monty Ealerman; 08-22-2010, 07:55 AM.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Monty Ealerman View Post
            I don't know the internals of the real devices or about differences in the various models
            But then why are you asking what the capacitor is used in S5? I also specifically cited the findings of the energy storage capacitors M26 (1,76 J) and X26 (0,36 J) that you understand that the energy of the capacitor - it does not measure the effectiveness of the pulse. But you do not understand.
            Average Current (3.6 mA – M26, 2,1 mA – X26) is also not an indication of the effectiveness of the pulse. Why use numbers, if you do not understand their meaning? Just because it is written in the Instructor's manual?

            Different devices may use different versions of capacitors, transformers and electronic circuits. The key to assessing the effectiveness of the device that we get the output in the load. Policeman reads the Instructor's manual, an expert looks at the oscilloscope.
            The oscilloscope shows (all measurements are made at the same load of 1000 ohms):




            I repeat once more. According to the functional dependence of the "Weiss-Lapicque", effect on motor neurons is determined by two main parameters of the pulse: the amplitude and duration. To avoid multiple interpretations, I combined the parameters of devices in the overall table.


            I know neurophysiology well enough
            OК. Then you have to understand what I'm trying to tell you.

            You still have yet to post any links to scholarly articles
            Links:
            3 European Symposium on Non-Lethal Weapons
            P45 Medical Biological Evaluation of Electroshock Stun Guns Efficiency

            4 European Symposium on Non-Lethal Weapons
            P54 TEMPORARY PARAMETERS OF HIGH VOLTAGE ELECTRIC IMPULSE GENERATING BY SHOCK GUNS IN CAUSING SPASMODIC SYNDROME

            INTERNATIONAL LESS LETHAL WEAPONS DATABASE

            I still hope for your common sense.

            Comment


            • #51
              Well hey there Monty, have not seen you for some time, everything going good?
              It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by nemoleg View Post
                But then why are you asking what the capacitor is used in S5?
                I understand the function of capacitors in the real devices.

                I also specifically cited the findings of the energy storage capacitors M26 (1,76 J) and X26 (0,36 J)
                Whose "findings"? Yours? Anyway 1.76 is close enough to 2.

                that you understand that the energy of the capacitor - it does not measure the effectiveness of the pulse.
                I didn't say it measured the effectiveness of the pulse. I said it determines the amount of energy that can be delivered to the recipient.

                But you do not understand.
                Au contraire, mon frere, il est vous qui ne comprenez pas.

                Average Current (3.6 mA – M26, 2,1 mA – X26) is also not an indication of the effectiveness of the pulse.
                I didn't say it was. I said the effectiveness of the real devices is based on a combination of factors. I notice you're now referring to milliamps instead of amps.

                Why use numbers, if you do not understand their meaning?
                I didn't say I didn't understand the meanings of the numbers. I said I didn't know the internals of the real devices. I know the internals of a lot of things, but not specifically those of the real electronic incapacitation devices.

                Just because it is written in the Instructor's manual?
                I think the Instructor's manual is much more likely to be accurate than you are.

                Different devices may use different versions of capacitors, transformers and electronic circuits.
                Yes. That's why I rely on the manufacturer's documentation and on other legitimate sources for the specifications regarding the real devices.

                The key to assessing the effectiveness of the device that we get the output in the load.
                I think you can assess the effectiveness of the devices by watching the bad guy writhe and squirm on the ground.

                Policeman reads the Instructor's manual, an expert looks at the oscilloscope.
                I'm confident that the people who created the content of the Instructor's manual are experts and that they had adequate access to research equipment.

                The oscilloscope shows (all measurements are made at the same load of 1000 ohms):



                Nice pics, but look where they came from: you!

                http://stun-wire-shot-technology.nar.../pulse_m26.jpg
                http://stun-wire-shot-technology.nar.../pulse_x26.jpg
                http://stun-wire-shot-technology.nar...s/pulse_s5.jpg

                Scientific American disagrees with you.

                From http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...zap-law-canada:

                When fired, the TASER X26 weapon, a model commonly used by law enforcement, operates at 19 pulses per second at a pulse duration of 100 microseconds to deliver an average current of 2.1 milliamps. (Editor's note: in an earlier version of this story, it was mistakenly reported that a TASER as a peak current of 3 amps.) Put in perspective, a University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign study indicates that at 20 milliamps, breathing becomes labored. At 100 milliamps, ventricular fibrillation of the heart—an uncoordinated twitching of the walls of the heart's ventricle—occurs.
                So SciAm says 2.1 milliamps and U of I says that 100 milliamps can kill you. You say your oscilloscope says 3 amps. It's Interesting to me that SciAm points out that number as something they had previously mistakenly reported.

                I repeat once more. According to the functional dependence of the "Weiss-Lapicque", effect on motor neurons is determined by two main parameters of the pulse: the amplitude and duration. To avoid multiple interpretations, I combined the parameters of devices in the overall table.
                Again you are using yourself as the source for the information you present.
                Again you are incorrectly specifying amps instead of milliamps.
                This is the first time I've seen you claiming 46KV running through your bare wires.
                Even if your wires didn't accidentally touch each other 46KV is enough to cause arcing between them.
                But I suppose that doesn't matter because your device is fictional.

                OК. Then you have to understand what I'm trying to tell you.
                I understand that you are trying to scam people.

                Links:
                3 European Symposium on Non-Lethal Weapons
                P45 Medical Biological Evaluation of Electroshock Stun Guns Efficiency

                4 European Symposium on Non-Lethal Weapons
                P54 TEMPORARY PARAMETERS OF HIGH VOLTAGE ELECTRIC IMPULSE GENERATING BY SHOCK GUNS IN CAUSING SPASMODIC SYNDROME

                INTERNATIONAL LESS LETHAL WEAPONS DATABASE

                I still hope for your common sense.
                These links have nothing to do with your claims about your fictional device.
                Last edited by Monty Ealerman; 08-22-2010, 05:55 PM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  So can we get a video of the OP holding the device, and shocking himself? They say the proof is in the pudding, so far all I’m seeing is cow patties.
                  It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Hi DACP,

                    I'm sure he'd be glad to make another fake video.

                    Thanks for your earlier greeting.

                    I'm OK and I hope and trust that you and yours are too.

                    Regards,

                    Monty

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Monty Ealerman View Post
                      Hi DACP,

                      I'm sure he'd be glad to make another fake video.

                      Thanks for your earlier greeting.

                      I'm OK and I hope and trust that you and yours are too.

                      Regards,

                      Monty
                      Yes sir We are all doing just fine.
                      It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Monty Ealerman
                        This is the first time I've seen you claiming 46KV running through your bare wires
                        That's because you are more interested in "What can you say about the capacitors the devices use" and "How are the probes sterilized"
                        Originally posted by Monty Ealerman
                        Even if your wires didn't accidentally touch each other 46KV is enough to cause arcing between them
                        Wrong. Insulation between wires S5 is provided by spaced wires which are stretched between the device and the target like a wire high-voltage power line. Spaced wires S5 can generate voltage up to 80 KV without the formation of an electric arc between the wires. The maximum voltage of the prototype S5 deliberately limited the size of 46KV to reliable operation.
                        And why do not you doubt the ability of Taser wires provide 50 KV? I will answer you. Because you are an amateur and believe only the Instructor's manual Taser International.
                        I say this not as a reproach to American cops. To use the weapon, the cop must read the Instructor's manual. The cop do not have to make measurements of the oscilloscope. But you are trying to accuse me of incompetence.
                        Because you are an amateur in a remote stun gun, I tell you another secret of professional. Taser wires can not provide the 50 KV. The maximum voltage that can provide a Taser wires is about 30 kV.
                        Do you trust the famous American inventor the stun gun McNulty?
                        In US Patent 5,831,199 McNulty wrote:
                        “If the wires are not deployed to their maximum range and length, they will hang from the cartridge over the bottom of the port or firing bay and frequently rest laxly on the ground in close proximity to each other or even resting upon or overlapping each other for portions of their lengths. Accordingly, each single conductor wire must be insulated from the other to prevent the TASER's arcing output current from shorting between the wires before the circuit is completed through the target. However, even if the walls on the paired conductors together provide sufficient insulation against an output arc between the conductors, the described method of dart delivery brings the wires within millimeters of one of the cartridges' port contacts. The necessarily uninsulated contacts, which are within the TASER's rectangular ports and which connect the cartridge wires to the poles of the power supply, are spaced at a near maximum distance within the ports, so the arc at the target can travel as long a distance as the weapon design can allow. This proximity between an uninsulated contact and an opposing wire results in frequent electrical shorts between the contact and the wire and a loss of electrical power at the target.”
                        “ High grade dielectrics which are commercially feasible and otherwise practical for extrusion on the TASER's wire conductor, like Tefzel, are available with maximum dielectric strengths of about 2000 volts/mil and a dielectric rating of 2.7. The ASA defines the dielectric strength of a material as the maximum potential gradient that the material can withstand without rupture. However, when Tefzel is extruded with adequate wall thickness to have a dielectric strength of 50 KV, that is a 25 mil wall of insulation or a 54 mil O.D. wire, the wire insulation becomes much too rigid and heavy and creates a drag which greatly reduces both the TASER flechettes range and impact velocity when propelled by explosion of 4/5 grain of smokeless powder. Moreover, the wire is far too voluminous to be stored in the TASER cartridges. The TASER cartridges can only each store a total of 32 linear feet of single conductor wire with an overall diameter of 20 mils.
                        Accordingly, these dielectrics must be extruded on the conductors with total wall thicknesses between the wires that will only marginally protect against arcing shorts between the trailing conductors and then only with air gaps and the TASER's short application times considered. Typically, the TASER wires have insulative walls of Tefzel that range in thickness from 6.5 mils to 8 mils or ratings of 13 KV to 16 KV dielectric strength. The two insulative walls on the wires and any air gap between the wires would provide the total resistance to current conduction between the wires or a minimum dielectric strength rating between the wires of only 26 KV to 32 KV, assuming no air gap between the wires.”


                        But I think, you will not believe McNulty too.

                        Originally posted by Monty Ealerman
                        Nice pics, but look where they came from: you!
                        I use pictures from the documents that are on my computer. I have a large database of remote electroshock devices, and if I need information, I just open my computer. It's faster than the search for a source in the network. Those who wish to find confirmation of data from the original oscilloscope can search:
                        Power Point Presentation “Cardiac Safety of TASER Stimulation”. Mark Kroll, Adjunct Professor Of Biomedical Engineering, Lecturer in Cardiovascular Physiology, Cal Poly University.
                        AIR FORCE RESEARCH LABORATORY AFRL-HE-BR-TR-2003-0089. “AN EVALUATION OF THE ELECTRICAL PROPERTIES AND BIO-BEHAVIORAL EFFECTS OF FOUR COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE TASERS AND THE JAYCOR STICKY SHOCKER”

                        Mr. Monty Ealerman, I answered your questions in the hope that your common sense stronger than your stubbornness. Now I see that stubbornness more. You are obsessed with links. You are not able to understand that the main source of information about the invention - it is primarily up to the inventor.

                        You can see the prototype S5 in the photos and video , you can read the patent application S5 device but you say that this device does not exist

                        You can see the inventor web site , but you are sure that he forged.

                        You can see videos the other prototypes , but according to your opinion, they also do not exist.

                        You can read the story to an UK journalist, but you are sure that he is lying.

                        You are trying to prove my incompetence, but only demonstrate your incompetence.

                        I think that even if the device is soon on the basis of the prototype S5 will be manufactured in the U.S., you'll be the last man on earth who believe in it.

                        I will not waste my time on you. For me you nonexistent
                        Last edited by nemoleg; 08-23-2010, 10:47 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by nemoleg View Post
                          That's because you are more interested in "What can you say about the capacitors the devices use" and "How are the probes sterilized"
                          I asked about those things, but that has no bearing on my statement that your table was the first time I had seen that you had claimed that your fictional devices transmits 46KV.

                          Wrong. Insulation between wires S5 is provided by spaced wires which are stretched between the device and the target like a wire high-voltage power line.
                          Your previous descriptions of your fictional device do not include specification of a mechanism that guarantees adequate spacing of the wires.

                          Spaced wires S5 can generate voltage up to 80 KV without the formation of an electric arc between the wires.
                          That depends on the distance and on atmospheric conditions.

                          The maximum voltage of the prototype S5 deliberately limited the size of 46KV to reliable operation.
                          And why do not you doubt the ability of Taser wires provide 50 KV? I will answer you. Because you are an amateur and believe only the Instructor's manual Taser International.
                          You yourself stated 50KV for the M24 in your table.

                          I say this not as a reproach to American cops.
                          That's nice.

                          To use the weapon, the cop must read the Instructor's manual.
                          The Instructor reads the Instructor's manual. In general the Patrol Officer reads the Owner's manual or Operator manual.

                          The cop do not have to make measurements of the oscilloscope.
                          Some don't. But some do. Most large departments have oscilloscopes.

                          But you are trying to accuse me of incompetence.
                          I'm trying to accuse you of presenting fiction as fact. I've repeatedly pointed out inconsistencies in your stories. Instead of addressing the concerns, you just heap on more obfuscatory dreck, just like other hucksters do.

                          Because you are an amateur in a remote stun gun, I tell you another secret of professional. Taser wires can not provide the 50 KV. The maximum voltage that can provide a Taser wires is about 30 kV.
                          Then why did you put 50KV in your table?

                          Do you trust the famous American inventor the stun gun McNulty?
                          I don't know him.

                          In US Patent 5,831,199 McNulty wrote:
                          “If the wires are not deployed to their maximum range and length, they will hang from the cartridge over the bottom of the port or firing bay and frequently rest laxly on the ground in close proximity to each other or even resting upon or overlapping each other for portions of their lengths. Accordingly, each single conductor wire must be insulated from the other to prevent the TASER's arcing output current from shorting between the wires before the circuit is completed through the target. However, even if the walls on the paired conductors together provide sufficient insulation against an output arc between the conductors, the described method of dart delivery brings the wires within millimeters of one of the cartridges' port contacts. The necessarily uninsulated contacts, which are within the TASER's rectangular ports and which connect the cartridge wires to the poles of the power supply, are spaced at a near maximum distance within the ports, so the arc at the target can travel as long a distance as the weapon design can allow. This proximity between an uninsulated contact and an opposing wire results in frequent electrical shorts between the contact and the wire and a loss of electrical power at the target.”
                          “ High grade dielectrics which are commercially feasible and otherwise practical for extrusion on the TASER's wire conductor, like Tefzel, are available with maximum dielectric strengths of about 2000 volts/mil and a dielectric rating of 2.7. The ASA defines the dielectric strength of a material as the maximum potential gradient that the material can withstand without rupture. However, when Tefzel is extruded with adequate wall thickness to have a dielectric strength of 50 KV, that is a 25 mil wall of insulation or a 54 mil O.D. wire, the wire insulation becomes much too rigid and heavy and creates a drag which greatly reduces both the TASER flechettes range and impact velocity when propelled by explosion of 4/5 grain of smokeless powder. Moreover, the wire is far too voluminous to be stored in the TASER cartridges. The TASER cartridges can only each store a total of 32 linear feet of single conductor wire with an overall diameter of 20 mils.
                          Accordingly, these dielectrics must be extruded on the conductors with total wall thicknesses between the wires that will only marginally protect against arcing shorts between the trailing conductors and then only with air gaps and the TASER's short application times considered. Typically, the TASER wires have insulative walls of Tefzel that range in thickness from 6.5 mils to 8 mils or ratings of 13 KV to 16 KV dielectric strength. The two insulative walls on the wires and any air gap between the wires would provide the total resistance to current conduction between the wires or a minimum dielectric strength rating between the wires of only 26 KV to 32 KV, assuming no air gap between the wires.”


                          But I think, you will not believe McNulty too.
                          That 12 year old patent document is for a device that has both wires in a projectile that can be fired from a shotgun.

                          The XREP has similar characteristics. http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/TASERXREP.aspx

                          Mr. McNulty discusses the possibility of unwanted arcing in the 50KV trailing wire devices if there isn't enough air between the insulated wires.

                          You omitted this part from the patent document of Mr. James McNulty Jr. et al that you cited:

                          "This problem is exacerbated and other problems are created owing to the fact that it is commercially impractical to more than marginally insulate against the TASER output potentials, which typically exceed 50 KV, if the TASER is to remain a hand held and easily concealable device". (emphasis added)

                          Apparently the source you cited isn't in agreement with you that the real devices deliver only 30KV.

                          And you expect us to believe that your fictional device delivers 46KV using bare wires.

                          I use pictures from the documents that are on my computer. I have a large database of remote electroshock devices, and if I need information, I just open my computer. It's faster than the search for a source in the network. Those who wish to find confirmation of data from the original oscilloscope can search:
                          Power Point Presentation “Cardiac Safety of TASER Stimulation”. Mark Kroll, Adjunct Professor Of Biomedical Engineering, Lecturer in Cardiovascular Physiology, Cal Poly University.
                          AIR FORCE RESEARCH LABORATORY AFRL-HE-BR-TR-2003-0089. “AN EVALUATION OF THE ELECTRICAL PROPERTIES AND BIO-BEHAVIORAL EFFECTS OF FOUR COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE TASERS AND THE JAYCOR STICKY SHOCKER”
                          Oh, so you apparently didn't do the oscilloscope work yourself, and just grabbed the pics from somwhere. The real devices deliver milliamps and not amps as in the labels on your pics. You have not yet responded to that.

                          Mr. Monty Ealerman, I answered your questions in the hope that your common sense stronger than your stubbornness. Now I see that stubbornness more. You are obsessed with links.
                          I am skeptical. I prefer to see appropriate proof before I believe something in the realm of the empirically testable. I'd rather read a peer-reviewed journal than have to do the work myself. Scientists take years to do research that I can read the results of in half an hour.

                          You are not able to understand that the main source of information about the invention - it is primarily up to the inventor.
                          The public expects to see evaluations by reputable and well recognized institutions.

                          You can see the prototype S5 in the photos and video , you can read the patent application S5 device but you say that this device does not exist
                          I can see lightsabers at the movies and they're fictional devices too.

                          You can see the inventor web site , but you are sure that he forged.
                          There's no independent evidence offered at any of your sites. All of it traces back to you. It's a fictional device.

                          You can see videos the other prototypes , but according to your opinion, they also do not exist.
                          I believe the videos exist.

                          You can read the story to an UK journalist, but you are sure that he is lying.
                          That story was based entirely on an interview with you.

                          You are trying to prove my incompetence, but only demonstrate your incompetence.
                          I'm calling you out on your claiming fiction as fact.

                          I think that even if the device is soon on the basis of the prototype S5 will be manufactured in the U.S., you'll be the last man on earth who believe in it.
                          I believe in real devices.

                          I will not waste my time on you. For me you nonexistent
                          Good. Maybe you'll run away again now. Bye.
                          Last edited by Monty Ealerman; 08-23-2010, 02:47 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Hello everyone. I have accidently found this thread during google search on stun guns and tasers. I live in Russia too, but never heard of any "LEGIONARY" device on the market. This man's posts were pretty an unexpected discovery, lol. Our cops use "rubber baton PR-73" device which is very effective to stun anyone without electricity, and most of them never heard about taser even Just for your information.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by haibabal View Post
                              Hello everyone. I have accidentally found this thread during google search on stun guns and tasers. I live in Russia too, but never heard of any "LEGIONARY" device on the market. This man's posts were pretty an unexpected discovery, lol. Our cops use "rubber baton PR-73" device which is very effective to stun anyone without electricity, and most of them never heard about taser even Just for your information.
                              Officer haibabal,

                              My name is Alex Sullivan,

                              For the past 30+ years as a R&D electrical engineer, and post graduate PhD lecturer with a few years of curriculum development, I have lectured and instructed the essentials of component, circuits, equipment, and systems of the latest EE techniques. Mostly, in that "ghostly" field of radio frequency, modulation, propagation, reception, and design.

                              I offer education in the largest sector of the electronics field with most employees here state side and a few abroad.

                              I am known for my hard fisted approach with respect to theoretical concepts, where the laws of physics seem to defy its itself. More specifically, laws in relation or relative to the "deceptive" behavior of our friend, the electron.

                              I lecture in and on the landscape of direct current conditions, without any consideration of A.C. impedances, up to and including the upper edges of the R.F. bands where, again, ideas and predictions begin to seem rather contradictory in seemingly practical experience and unjust incorrect theory... Non the less, we follow our noses like a 3 dimensional dance between electromagnetic and electrostatic fields
                              becoming two dimensional, from our friend, our theoretical isotropic radiator suspended in free space, unaffected by nothingness..To wit, for our satisfaction of understanding the laws of our Creator..There, I said it..This is science in its purest form, Sir...


                              I personally know Mr. Ealerman. It seem humorous to me that his forte' is not particularly electrical engineering concepts. Mr. Ealerman is on the other hand a multi-faceted, well traveled, educated individual.

                              I know that he has a adequate natural knowledge base of the subject, electronics. That is why I remained in the "shadows".

                              I skimmed the dialog's and found 1 error concerning a decimal shift in a small capacitive metric unit of measurement. This error was made by Mr. Ealerman.

                              On the other hand, Mr. nemoleg, depicted Cartesian coordinate # 1 representing electrical variables that were quite strange in reference to the subject at hand..Particularly the peak current to voltage ratio and / or resistance / reactive references..

                              Umm. not to mention the strange damping depiction of a sinusoidal waveform verses time to explain something that I truly could not understand..Except it was a dampened sine wave..If only we maintain that condition in a zero load which was alluded to a degree, We would control ......and destroy everything..

                              Therefor I ask, do we really know how many electrons pass one singularity, in one second, so we can define the ampere? Or how many "lines" of magnetic flux constitute the Weber?

                              Are we so ethnocentric that we trick ourselves into the abyss of false empowerment of this understanding of magnetism, this truly undefinable phenomenon?

                              Why do we assign ourselves the power, the right, to define the time it takes to completely charge a capacitor or discharge an inductor...The units are the same, no? Isn't it curious and true that the times (through a mutual value of resistance) is the same?.. As most physicists and EE's understand, their relationship is 180 degrees out of phase...easy....they are complementary..In series or a parallel configuration..

                              Series at resonance has Max I @ the resonant frequency and a particular "Q" factor, therefore, naturally \\ tanks @ resonance will developer(measure) max. E when realized and have a calculated "Q". Mercy I have for years told youngsters that a high "Q" Factor represents a relative narrow bandwith...and of course the lower Q tank circuit will realize a wider B.W....I mention this for a reason...this concept and many others, is critical concerning the device we are speaking of...

                              Tazer Inc..Is located 15 miles from my residence....I know and worked for a short period of time concerning the medical possibilities during different stages of development...this device, as you would imagine, went through many articles of production..For obvious reasons..I.E. ventricular deliberation..of the human heart complex, as mentioned before..


                              Officer, this is basic electronics here...


                              My friend, some might ask at this juncture if what I speak is relavant to the "dialog", The answer at this time is absolutely. If anybody has doubt, go to a true electrical enginner, a true man of science have said person read and agree! I am open and humbled...



                              Or what really makes a magnet a magnet.? My friend haibabal ?

                              Three more examples, gravity, magnetic flux lines relative to hole or electron flow, or direction of "current flow"...Right or left, up or down, I ask, the answer of course is unknown again..!

                              Of course we assign ourselves the crown of definition, to master their unkown secrets and true properties, unwittingly...

                              Why?, for consciences? IMO, for convenience, So we can agree and talk the language of electronics, mathamatics, again, the "rules"...!


                              Alas, only If I was so fortunate to theorize and discuss this subject, Creation with you for a bit longer!

                              It is very easy to calculate where we are at, if given a point of reference...We do not IMHO, ride that sine wave, the circle, not ever really knowing "where" our position is...Only that we are riding the wave of time, which is really, by mathamatical proof, a "forever" sine wave. I can theorize, but I have faith it is so...Like the ratio of the diameteter to circumference of the cosmic circle....Non repeating..

                              On the other hand, please no disrespect, IMHO Mr. Nemoleg should stick to peeling potatoes.

                              In conclusion, thank you for your input. You saved me much critiquing that I can ill afford, concerning the reciprocal of frequency.

                              My best,
                              A Sullivan

                              Yes, one more interesting "tid bit", When I start a protracted lecture Officer haibabal, I seem to enjoy an opening question....It goes like this.."What is your definition of electronics"?
                              Last edited by asullivan; 09-06-2010, 05:46 AM. Reason: injunctor of thought
                              Originally posted by mookster
                              Sully, usually I hafta glance over your posts cuz my brain would have issues with the imagery you portray, however with that one I get it. I agree one hundred percent with ya.
                              Originally posted by CityCopDC
                              I swear to god you are not human. I know a rogue VI when I see one.
                              Originally posted by OfficerDotCom
                              I think no one is probably happier than Sully and I that we ARE NOT the same person.(seriously thanking God for that one).
                              -Frank




                              Old Physicists neva' die, they just hop on a horsey and fly away inta' an infinitely massive black ho ...

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Hey Sully,

                                May I assume that you'll be a principal character in the upcoming "Financing Nemo" film?

                                Regards,

                                Monty

                                Comment

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