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Where are the PROCEDURES that cops must follow when issueing tickets

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  • Where are the PROCEDURES that cops must follow when issueing tickets

    I live in Arizona (Maricopa County)

    I was stopped and given criminal ticket for speeding. The officer used pacing to determine my speed.
    I've read this forum and before we get into an offtopic of "were you speeding", "the cop wouldn't give you a ticket if you wern't speeding" blah blah that is not my question.

    I believe the cop did not follow proper procedures when pacing my car. Specifically he was only behind me for about 3 seconds before he turned on his lights, and before he was behind me he was actually behind another vehicle in another lane.

    The courts refuse to show me where it is actually written down what procedures an officer must follow when pacing. How long they must pace, for what distance, etc. Things like that.
    I've spoken with a bloodsucker (aka lawyer) and they won't point me in the right direction either, they simply tell me how much money they want to try and defend me in court.

    http://www.azleg.state.az.us/Arizona...s.asp?Title=28
    Is the arizona revised statutes, but nothing in it lists what procedures an officer must follow.

  • #2
    it sounds like he folloed proper PROCEDURES to me. he was behind you for enough time to realize that you were exceeding the speed limit by enough to be criminal. slow it down and you wont get tickets.

    do you realize you got the ticket because you were endangering the lives of other people? and all you care about it that you got a court date because of it?

    Comment


    • #3
      Reader's Digest version: There are no set in stone procedures for pacing. As long as I can accurately gauge your speed, I'm golden. I don't have to follow you for X miles or seconds.

      For more information, there are two posts on the exact same subject a few lines under your post. Over 40 responses to pacing questions can be found at:

      http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77948

      http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79025
      I miss you, Dave.
      http://www.odmp.org/officer/20669-of...david-s.-moore

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      • #4
        Originally posted by lanman View Post

        I believe the cop did not follow proper procedures when pacing my car. Specifically he was only behind me for about 3 seconds before he turned on his lights, and before he was behind me he was actually behind another vehicle in another lane.
        To get a good pace, the officer doesn't need to be directly behind you.(I wonder where that misconception came from?) He can be in front, behind, to either side, at pretty much any distance he/she can accurately gauge speed. They can even be traveling in the slow lane, hidden next to a tractor trailer. CHP officers are masters of this technique.

        Contesting the cite is one of your options. Just be certain to have a little more than "he was only behind me for about 3 seconds before he turned on his lights!" as your defense. The traffic commissioner won't like that one bit.
        "Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought" ~Henri Louis Bergson
        ______________________


        ComptonPOLICEGANGS.com

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        • #5
          before we get into an offtopic of "were you speeding", "the cop wouldn't give you a ticket if you wern't speeding" blah blah that is not my question
          Here's my answer...if you were 1 mph over the posted limit, you were guilty, get over it and move on with your life. It's a speeding ticket, not a murder conviction.
          I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

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          • #6
            What city were you in? What were you charged with (excessive or reckless)? In AZ, there is no option to contest the cite on a criminal traffic charge. The defendant MUST show up in court for an IA. At that time, he/she can pay the fine, decide on a plea if offered or choose a bench trial.

            As for the pacing question, it is not set in stone. First, officers are trained in visual estimation, so he likely had a good idea of your speed before the pace began. I always pace from another lane or somewhere I can be partially hidden. There is no distance or time requirement, though longer is always better.
            d

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CruiserClass View Post
              Reader's Digest version: There are no set in stone procedures for pacing. As long as I can accurately gauge your speed, I'm golden. I don't have to follow you for X miles or seconds.

              For more information, there are two posts on the exact same subject a few lines under your post. Over 40 responses to pacing questions can be found at:

              http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77948

              http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79025

              In PA an officer must follow a vehicle for at least 3/10th of a mile if he is going to use that method of determining speed. But like the SGT said it only a speeding ticket get over it
              In God we trust all others we run through NCIC

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm not going to waste your time or mine, by attempting to justify, or explain the Officer's actions. I can only suggest that if you feel the citation was unfair, unjustified, as in you're "Not guilty", then enter that plea and have your day in court. I'll make no recommendation to you concerning being represented by counsel, or not. Again, your call.

                Comment


                • #9
                  1. We show up for work
                  2. We get in our patrol car
                  3. We see someone commit a violation
                  4. We make contact
                  5. We write citations
                  6. And you show up to court.
                  7. that person pays the fine….

                  Very simple!!!
                  "An officer has the confidence to stand alone, the courage to make tough decisions, and the compassion to listen to the needs of others. He does not set out to be a leader, but becomes one by the quality of his actions and the integrity of his intent."

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                  • #10
                    "Blatant" pretty much covered it. In Az. there's no minimum distance or time. Location is unimportant. What IS important is that the officer can testify to maintaining distance & speed (aka "pacing") and that his car's speedometer is accurate (maintenance records will prove that). Visual estimation to show speeding is basic to officer training so I'm willing to bet he simply caught you "dead to Rights". Is it fair? I wasn't there so I don't know. Is it realistic and practical in the real world? Absolutely.
                    Now if you think you're not guilty, then by all means, plead "not guilty". If you think the officer violated procedure or made up a speed, there's nothing here that'd convince me or anyone else of that, so I think you're kinda stuck........

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by lanman View Post
                      The courts refuse to show me where it is actually written down what procedures an officer must follow when pacing. How long they must pace, for what distance, etc.
                      FWIW, the court is supposed to be an impartial trier of fact. Both sides present their case and the court rules on the matter. Were the court to assist you by providing information to help present your case, they would be showing a bias towards you in this matter. They cannot do this and maintain the appearance of objectivity.

                      I can't speak for Arizona, but in California, enforcement procedures (such as how a vehicle is clocked for speed) are deemed to be confidential and exempt from disclosure under the public records act. When someone who gets a speeding citation writes my agency and asks for a copy of our clocking procedures, we always decline, citing the exemption in the public records act. I'm going to bet the laws are similar in your state and under the circumstances, I doubt that any government agency is going to give you the information you are seeking. It will be up to you to do your own research on this one.

                      In any case, I'm not sure if knowing this will be of much help to you. Most officers have enough training and expertise to visually estimate a vehicle's speed within a one or two MPH error margin, which the courts traditionally recognize. Within my own agency, an officer's visual estimates are periodically checked against calibrated radar units and then logged, to document that they have maintained this ability on a continuing basis. The use of radar or clocking with respect to an actual citation only provides a "second opinion" that confirms their initial observation of the speeding violation.
                      Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lanman View Post
                        I live in Arizona (Maricopa County)

                        I was stopped and given criminal ticket for speeding. The officer used pacing to determine my speed.
                        I've read this forum and before we get into an offtopic of "were you speeding", "the cop wouldn't give you a ticket if you wern't speeding" blah blah that is not my question.

                        I believe the cop did not follow proper procedures when pacing my car. Specifically he was only behind me for about 3 seconds before he turned on his lights, and before he was behind me he was actually behind another vehicle in another lane.

                        The courts refuse to show me where it is actually written down what procedures an officer must follow when pacing. How long they must pace, for what distance, etc. Things like that.
                        I've spoken with a bloodsucker (aka lawyer) and they won't point me in the right direction either, they simply tell me how much money they want to try and defend me in court.

                        http://www.azleg.state.az.us/Arizona...s.asp?Title=28
                        Is the arizona revised statutes, but nothing in it lists what procedures an officer must follow.

                        Did the issuing officer have his hat on?
                        THAT is the golden rule, an officer in the performance of his official duties must be in complete official uniform or that null and voids the official citation as issued.
                        I got nothing for now

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          E-Man we all know that is a myth about the hat! IF the officer forgets to read your rights on a traffic stop then you really got it made.
                          Marine Infantry - Taking out the trash one country at a time.

                          "You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are."

                          "Freedom is not free, but the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share."

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                          • #14
                            the real question is was the officer standing at least 2 degrees off of the 40 latitude with his gun pointed to the south west. If not you can get out of the ticket.
                            The Republicans need to shrug off this Christian Coalition noose it has placed around its own neck and recognize the fact that, though they may not realize it, the majority of Americans are actually quite libertarian in their philosophy. They also need to learn to fight once in a while. What a bunch of wimps.
                            -Neal Boortz

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RedRaider911 View Post
                              the real question is was the officer standing at least 2 degrees off of the 40 latitude with his gun pointed to the south west. If not you can get out of the ticket.
                              Thats why the person I ticket doing 100 in a 55 got off, because of the latitude I was standing at, thanks for the info
                              IGNORE LIST - Banastretarlton AKA "banana boy"

                              "In the fields of observation chance favors only prepared mind"
                              -----Louis Pasteur

                              "Sweat in training saves blood on the battlefield."

                              -------Col. David "Hack" Hackworth

                              On my 7 year old 2nd Grade Class wall

                              ------------YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOUR OWN ACTIONS

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