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  • If I assert a constitutional right, will I be arrested?

    The right I'm referring to is my right to travel. Meaning if I drove without a license or plates would I be arrested and have my car (private property) stolen from me without due process of law?

    I've been doing research for many years and have cases to back me up on this.

    Example. Driving is legally considered a corporate activity. I'm not a corporation, I'm a Sovereign American. Correct?

    Do the people own the roads or does the state. Can I see a title?

    Also, what law or statute of law gives the police authority to pull anyone over without a warrant, or having witnessed the DETAINEE commit a crime
    and (extort his/her hard earned money) write a ticket?

    Isn't it unconstitutional and a crime to arrest someone for not signing a ticket?

    I know if I asked a police officer these questions at an illegal traffic stop I'd probably get tazed so i figured it would be safer to ask here. Thank You.

    Brad

  • #2
    Here's your answer as it pertains to me. DO NOT COME TO ALABAMA! You will not like the results...lol. All you're doing by signing the ticket is saying that you will either pay the ticket or appear in court on the assigned date. You're not admitting guilt by signing. So just do what our legal system is designed for you to do and argue your "case" in court on your assigned court date.

    Comment


    • #3
      Are you employed in a law enforcement industry? His answer is no.
      Are you a sworn Law Enforcement Officer? His answer is yes. Nice.
      We need to start throwing in the question, are you a troll?

      Post has been reported so hopefully the black helicopters will yank him before the games begin.
      Prov 17:17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.

      Comment


      • #4
        I just thought I'd ask. Was hoping to get some real answers, that's all.

        I have a couple more. Has common law, civil rights been replaced with code?

        In a Constitutional Republic which is what we're living in. NOT A DEMOCROCY,
        means that the state can't put on a ballot anything that takes away our freedoms. 2 examples, the seat belt law (code) and the smoking ban (more fraudulent code).

        Here in Wa. State, a judge ruled that both of those laws were unconstitutional so the state just went to a judge that didn't care about his oath or the constitution and ruled it was ok to enslave us some more and so the sheeple cast their vote and the rest is history. HURRAY!!!

        Is no one concerned here? Does anyone have a problem with "Liberty with responsibility"? meaning, if I'm not hurting anyone one, just leave me alone.

        Brad

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by d0406 View Post
          Here's your answer as it pertains to me. DO NOT COME TO ALABAMA! You will not like the results...lol. All you're doing by signing the ticket is saying that you will either pay the ticket or appear in court on the assigned date. You're not admitting guilt by signing. So just do what our legal system is designed for you to do and argue your "case" in court on your assigned court date.


          Why would I waste my time doing either one of those???
          It's a matter of principle, that's all.

          Brad

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by d0406 View Post
            Here's your answer as it pertains to me. DO NOT COME TO ALABAMA!
            Do not come to DC either. Driving w/o a license is an arrestable offense.

            Comment


            • #7
              Cops are not lawyers. All the answers you are looking for are in the various US code and state codes. Don't come here looking for legal advice, ask a lawyer or read the code yourself and determine what it means at your own risk.

              Nothing says that you have to agree with the law, but there are consequences for not obeying them; again whether you agree with them or not.

              I don't agree with all the laws I am called upon to enforce, but so long as it is my belief that such laws are constitutional, I will still enforce them. That is what I am paid to do and what the public expects.

              We have to have rules in order for society to function. Is it your position that the law, as passed by elected representatives, is not valid and enforceable under any circumstances? If so, how is our society to function? It is the courts' job to determine if laws are legally enforceable. If you feel that some are not, I suggest you either get yourself elected to public office and work to change them or file a lawsuit against whatever government body is responsible for the laws you don't like and hope for the best.

              Common law still exists and is the basis for most statutory law in the US (except Louisiana that is based on Napoleonic Code). You know the problem with Common Law? It is supposed to be common knowledge and therefore not written down anywhere. Would you rather the government charge you with a crime based on a statute that you can read and understand or under "common law" where you are simply expected to know the elements of the offense?

              I'm sure there are plenty of "patriots" forums where you can have your ego stroked by people that agree 100% with you. This is not one of them. Cops, in general, believe in the rule of law. Most of us are not qualified to or interested in explaining the legal intricacies behind the law we enforce. That is the job of lawyers and the courts.
              -Landric

              "The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them"-Felix

              Comment


              • #8
                Removed all of this, used find new post feature, and failed to realize it was the ask-a-cop section.

                Apologies.
                Last edited by Contact; 12-30-2007, 11:20 PM.
                A true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.

                -GK Chesterton

                Comment


                • #9
                  My post pertains to NC only:

                  Driving is not mentioned nor protected by the constitution, so there is no "right" to travel. Driving is a privledge in NC, not a right. My right to stop a vehicle that you're operating is based on the reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed or is about to be committed and it is my duty to investigate same. If you drove your vehicle without plates, then I would stop you to determine why. It's against the law in NC for which you would ordinarily receive a citation and told not to drive. Then I would find out, after stopping you for a legal reason, that you are not licensed to drive, which would also be another charge...of which I have the authority to either cite you on the same citation or take you before a magistrate (IE-arrest you).

                  As for your other information on being a Sovereign American, I assume you are refering to the beliefs of sovereign citizenship [in the United States]. Part of that theory includes the belief that while the government cannot take from a person their rights to their "natural liberty" it continues by stating that natural liberties are also yielded when a subject enters a state, as such must be done for the general advantage of the public...which means that while you can protect your natural liberties, you cannot do it at the expense of others. However, none of that has anything to do with driving because driving is not a natural liberty nor one protected by the Constitution nor any of its amendments. Therefore, while being a citizen of this country does offer you certain rights, the Constitution has built within it's words, the ability to stop YOU from asserting YOUR rights over the rights of others.

                  With regards to being arrested for not signing a ticket. No, it's not unconstitutional.
                  sigpic

                  I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Brad,

                    You remind me of a traffic stop I helped out on one time. My Sgt made a traffic stop on a male for making an illegal turn. When requested to produce his driver's license, he refused to on the grounds of 'self-incrimination' and demanded to go 'before a magistrate.' Which in California is a legitimate alternative during business hours. So we took him before the magistrate, who promptly had us book him into jail for failing to comply with the vehicle code section requiring a driver produce her/his license when requested (a misdemeanor) as well as a few other charges. He ultimately attempted to sue those on the traffic stop in Federal Court using existing 'civil rights' laws. The suit was eventually thrown out as baseless.

                    Now, back to you. My point for bringing up this example is it is similar to you. I think you are interpreting the country/legal system different than what it is and how it pertains to you (citizen of the country). Simply put, as a 'legal citizen' (a privilege given to you upon your legal birth into this country, or legitimate and tested entry into this country) you agree to live day to day enjoying the existing structure of government, legal system and social services afforded you by your citizenship. In California, as in most states the 'privilege' to drive is just that. A privilege as opposed to a 'right'. The Constitution does not afford you the right to drive. The Federal government and legislature has deferred the 'awarding of privilege' to the state level. That is why your Washington driver's license would no longer be valid in California or Nevada or any other state. As well as your registration. Each individual state is afforded the right to set statute upon the governing of it's on borders, but within the confines of the Country as a whole.

                    Your argument that we live in a 'Constitutional Republic' not a Democracy is subject to debate. A 'constitutional republic' approach to Democracy is what the United States of America is. Even under a 'constitutional republic', statutes can be created to protect and enforce. The mere fact that you agree or wish to live in this Country and your chosen state of Washington, REQUIRES you to follow existing statutes and norms for your location. If you don't like them, you can attempt to change them (under the existing procedure for your state) or you can move to a state with statutes you agree with. You simply can't chose not to follow them and expect not to have any consequences.

                    Each law enforcement officer is that, an enforcer of law. He/she swears an oath upon the flag of this Country and their state to uphold and enforce the laws of their state and this Country. There are many reasons for our need. You happen to be one of them and I thank you for my job security. My advice, if you ultimately can not bring yourself to abide by the laws/norms of society and this country; you may enforce your 'right to travel' out of each.

                    scrubb
                    “You sleep safe in your beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do you harm.”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      *ahem*

                      Scrubb's my hero.

                      Excellent post.
                      sigpic

                      I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I understand that we need laws. No problem there. But I've read cases where people have given back their plates and licenses and drove without them, got pulled over, arrested and their car impounded. They go to court and the court finds that the officer was wrong, the person gets his car back and still drives without a license or plates without a problem. And driving is not a privileged it's a right. Not driving in the corporate sense, in the corporate sense it is a privilege, one which requires a license.

                        That's what I'm having a problem with right there. If one person can get his freedoms back why can't the rest of us do it without a court fight? That's what makes me so angry and I just wanted to get some police officers opinions on the matter.

                        I just can't get past this for some reason. I just hate injustice. And in my little pee brain, every traffic ticket is an injustice, just an excuse for the state to steal.

                        Don't even get me started on red light cameras.

                        Brad

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If you drive in this state (Arizona) with a valid AZ driver license or any valid license from any territory meaning foreign or domestic, you car will be impounded for 30 days, not stolen. Also, driving without current registration is an offense and you will be given a civil citation for it. You may have paid for the car, but the privilege to drive on the road is exactly that, a privilege not a right.

                          You pay taxes which pay for the road, the state maintains the roads, therefore it's the states property.


                          If you commit a traffic violation, Title 28 in arizona gives me the authority to "legally detain you" i.e. pull you over and issue you an Arizona Traffic Citation. Signing the ticket is not admitting guilt, it's even on the bottom of the ticket you're just recognizing the fact that you were given the ticket, and if it's a criminal citation you're simply acknowledging the fact that you must appear in court. If you disagree with the violation, it is one hundred percent your right to contest it in court in front of a judge.

                          Again, if you refuse to sign a civil citation here in Arizona, I don't care I just write served on the ticket. However if you refuse to sign a criminal citation, you will be arrested and booked into jail for the offense.
                          "When I close my eyes.....I'll see you on the other side....!!!"

                          Hate to put it this way skippy, buy every night I suit up and climb in the cruiser I'm at war. I'm always outnumbered, potentially out gunned and always behind enemy lines.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's not a right, Brad, not in the way you are referring to it as. Chances are those cases you are referring to, should they exist, were issues over RS or PC and not the actual crime involved.
                            sigpic

                            I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bhaas View Post
                              The right I'm referring to is my right to travel. Meaning if I drove without a license or plates would I be arrested and have my car (private property) stolen from me without due process of law?

                              I've been doing research for many years and have cases to back me up on this.
                              Really? Care to cite some caselaw from your "research."

                              Example. Driving is legally considered a corporate activity. I'm not a corporation, I'm a Sovereign American. Correct?
                              Really where do you get this crap?
                              Do the people own the roads or does the state. Can I see a title?
                              Most public roads are owned and maintained by some level of government. Often city streets are owned/maintained by the city or county. Highways are owned maintained by the state, but often with federal funding.
                              Also, what law or statute of law gives the police authority to pull anyone over without a warrant, or having witnessed the DETAINEE commit a crime
                              and (extort his/her hard earned money) write a ticket?
                              Cops can stop a person and investigate based on probable cause to believe a crime was committed, and in some many cases can stop and investigate based on a reasonable suspicion that a crime was comitted. (Terry v. Ohio)
                              Isn't it unconstitutional and a crime to arrest someone for not signing a ticket?
                              No, in many jurisdictions a traffic citation is a citation in lieu of arrest. Meaning the officer can arrest the person and book them, and then they can seek release on bond. However, the officer is given the discretion to give a citation in lieu of arrest, which basically is a notice to the person that they are being charged with a traffic violation and given a court date. If a person refuses to sign the ticket (which is NOT an admission of guilt) that would be a signal to the officer that the person may be unwilling to appear in court. Therefore the officer may choose to arrest the person rather than issue the citation.
                              I know if I asked a police officer these questions at an illegal traffic stop I'd probably get tazed so i figured it would be safer to ask here.
                              What a load of crap. Asking questions during a traffic stop will not get you TASED. However, if you are asking questions WHILE you are ACTIVELY resisting lawful instructions and creating a threat, you might get TASED.

                              Oh, and despite my relatively polite response so far, I think you're a nutjob.

                              Thanks for trolling.

                              Comment

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