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*With Pictures* - Reckless Driving.........Seems excessive?

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  • *With Pictures* - Reckless Driving.........Seems excessive?

    Took place in .CA. Thanks in advance for your input.

    Before I start, I want to state that I admit to wrongdoing, I realize there are several violations which I could have been cited for and I take responsibility for those violations, however I think in this situation, the punishment may be a little excessive and unreasonable. For the record, I am 37 yrs old with a perfect driving record. I also want to state from the time I was pulled over until the time the officer was done with me, I acted with the upmost respect, did not try to talk my way out of my faults, nor did I rebut any of the officers proposed allegations (despite their outlandish context). So with that said, this is my story.

    For the last six months, my 10 year old daughter has been asking me to take her in my Z06 corvette and do a donut. After seeing a video of me completing one at a High Performance Driving School, this has been at the top of her "things dad needs to do with me" list. I am a regular track event participant, having completed over a dozen performance driving classes, and from time to time sit in as a ride along instructor as needed for the beginner drivers. Well, I was scheduled to have new rear tires installed on a Thurs prior to an upcoming track event that weekend. So on Wed, my daughter asked me again to take her out, and this time with a little more ammunition as I could not use the "its a waste of rubber" excuse that I had used the last six months. So I agreed to take her. We waited until night time (9pm) and drove to a secluded, private, completely vacant parking lot located at a local community college. I was familiar with the lot as I fly my RC plane out there. The lot has no concrete parking curbs, barriers, or buildings (picture attached). I did a drive through to check for any debris, and proceeded to do ONE controlled donut (car wasn't moving more than 10mph) and then slowly drove towards the exit at which point a cop parked in the dark off in the distance (patrols the area until 10pm) raced up to me, lights blaring, and ran up to my window with his gun unholstered screaming for me to get out of the car, I had stopped the car as soon as I saw his lights. He proceeded with the usual process ending in a reckless driving ticket to me and 30 day impoundment (absolutely no drugs or alcohol involved), not to mention a devastated 10yr old daughter.

    Now, the law defines reckless driving as “willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property”. It further goes on to say a person acts with wanton disregard for safety when (1) he or she is aware that his or her actions present a SUBSTANTIAL and unjustifiable risk of harm, and (2) he or she intentionally ignores that risk. Being there were no pedestrians present, no cars in the lot, no property to be damaged, I think reckless is a stretch, but possibly justifiable under certain circumstances. However, the fact I am an experienced high performance driver having been professionally instructed on controlled drifting and instructed others, I do not believe in any way that I acted with wanton disregard for safety.

    I am respectfully asking for opinions on whether or not my specific situation constitutes reckless driving? With no disrespect to the law, or those who uphold the law, I believe the citing officer abused his authority and acted unreasonably, causing an unnecessary, major financial/emotional strain. Before I get flamed for disrespecting a fellow officer, I ask you to try and take an impartial view. I honestly do have the upmost respect for LE, my brother is a 22yr CHP motors vet, and I have nothing but love for him. I appreciate and value your wisdom.

    Regards,
    MG
    Last edited by grahambo0101; 08-02-2017, 08:05 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by grahambo0101 View Post
    Thanks in advance for your input.

    Before I start, I want to state that I admit to wrongdoing, I realize there are several violations which I could have been cited for and I take responsibility for those violations, however I think in this situation, the punishment may be a little excessive and unreasonable. For the record, I am 37 yrs old with a perfect driving record. I also want to state from the time I was pulled over until the time the officer was done with me, I acted with the upmost respect, did not try to talk my way out of my faults, nor did I rebut any of the officers proposed allegations (despite their outlandish context). So with that said, this is my story.

    For the last six months, my 10 year old daughter has been asking me to take her in my Z06 corvette and do a donut. After seeing a video of me completing one at a High Performance Driving School, this has been at the top of her "things dad needs to do with me" list. I am a regular track event participant, having completed over a dozen performance driving classes, and from time to time sit in as a ride along instructor as needed for the beginner drivers. Well, I was scheduled to have new rear tires installed on a Thurs prior to an upcoming track event that weekend. So on Wed, my daughter asked me again to take her out, and this time with a little more ammunition as I could not use the "its a waste of rubber" excuse that I had used the last six months. So I agreed to take her. We waited until night time (9pm) and drove to a secluded, private, completely vacant parking lot located at a local community college. I was familiar with the lot as I fly my RC plane out there. The lot has no concrete parking curbs, barriers, or buildings (picture attached). I did a drive through to check for any debris, and proceeded to do ONE controlled donut (car wasn't moving more than 10mph) and then slowly drove towards the exit at which point a cop parked in the dark off in the distance (patrols the area until 10pm) raced up to me, lights blaring, and ran up to my window with his gun unholstered screaming for me to get out of the car, I had stopped the car as soon as I saw his lights. He proceeded with the usual process ending in a reckless driving ticket to me and 30 day impoundment (absolutely no drugs or alcohol involved), not to mention a devastated 10yr old daughter. Now, the law defines reckless driving as “willful or wanton disregard for the safety of persons or property”. It further goes on to say a person acts with wanton disregard for safety when (1) he or she is aware that his or her actions present a SUBSTANTIAL and unjustifiable risk of harm, and (2) he or she intentionally ignores that risk. Being there were no pedestrians present, no cars in the lot, no property to be damaged, I think reckless is a stretch, but possibly justifiable under certain circumstances. However, the fact I am an experienced high performance driver having been professionally instructed on controlled drifting and instructed others, I do not believe in any way that I acted with wanton disregard for safety. I am respectfully asking for opinions on whether or not my specific situation constitutes reckless driving? With no disrespect to the law, or those who uphold the law, I believe the citing officer abused his authority and acted unreasonably, causing an unnecessary, major financial/emotional strain. Before I get flamed for disrespecting a fellow officer, I ask you to try and take an impartial view. I honestly do have the upmost respect for LE, my brother is a 22yr CHP motors vet, and I have nothing but love for him. I appreciate and value your wisdom.

    Regards,
    MG
    Reckless driving with a 10 yr old in the car..............................there is no excuse

    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

    Comment


    • #3
      Did your ask your brother? IMO an alternative would have been to do that at the track that you drive at......sets a better example for you daughter (she'll be driving in a few short years.) I'd be concerned that you'd be encouraging a soon to be inexperienced driver to do something that she doesn't have the skill to do but like most teens (I know you said she's only 10 I'm thinking future) she'll probably go through that 'I'm indestructible phase'. I'm sure she's the light of your life and I wouldn't want you to even remotely encourage that behavior. You could've been charged w/ child endangerment here. You seem like a caring Father. Teach her to obey all traffic laws. Just some thoughts.
      Judge me by the enemies I have made----Unknown

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post

        Reckless driving with a 10 yr old in the car..............................there is no excuse
        Thank you for your input. However, in no way was my daughter in any danger at any time. The risk is much greater just driving to grocery store on a public roads . Also, when defining reckless driving, I don't see how age would matter. If the argument is I put the passenger in danger, dossent matter how old/young they are?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Zeitgeist View Post
          Did your ask your brother? IMO an alternative would have been to do that at the track that you drive at......sets a better example for you daughter (she'll be driving in a few short years.) I'd be concerned that you'd be encouraging a soon to be inexperienced driver to do something that she doesn't have the skill to do but like most teens (I know you said she's only 10 I'm thinking future) she'll probably go through that 'I'm indestructible phase'. I'm sure she's the light of your life and I wouldn't want you to even remotely encourage that behavior. You could've been charged w/ child endangerment here. You seem like a caring Father. Teach her to obey all traffic laws. Just some thoughts.
          Your absolutely right, I cannot argue that. It was not the right example to set and I was wrong in doing so. Although I did overstress the importance of safety, most importantly, pedestrians. This is why I told her we had to wait until later/night. When instructing beginners in high performance driving clinics, safety is probably 90% of the lesson emphasized.

          Regarding your question on whether or not I asked my CHP brother, I did, he does not believe I am giving him the whole story. He says there is no cop that would cite RD with a 30 day impoundment under the circumstances I explained.

          Thank you for your input
          Last edited by grahambo0101; 08-01-2017, 06:16 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            The court determined the following did NOT constitute reckless driving.

            See People v. Allison (1951) 101 Cal.App.2d Supp. 932, 935.
            "A pedestrian was crossing a highway and waving a fishing pole at the driver to get his attention. The driver did not slow down. The pedestrian shouted something at the driver as he drove by. The driver made a U turn and drove towards the pedestrian. The pedestrian had to jump out of the way thinking he would get hit. The defendant stopped where the pedestrian was standing and then put his car in reverse and left 10 feet of skid marks before turning his car around and driving off. The court found that this may have constituted negligence on the part of the driver, but it did not constitute a wanton disregard for safety of others"

            Hard to believe court's shot down RD in this instance

            Comment


            • #7
              I would have to agree with your brother. Is your Vet red?
              Looking at your picture you did more than one donut, I count at least three and given all the other burnout marks, I would venture there has been some complaints about people driving like idiots in that lot.
              Last edited by bpd303; 08-02-2017, 09:23 PM.
              Train for tomorrow, for you never know what it will bring to the fight.
              In the school of Policing, there is no graduation day.

              Arguing on the internet, is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while you realize that while you are getting dirty, the pig is actually enjoying it.
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              Comment


              • #8
                Understand this....cops genuinely like children. You driving around at night on public property certainly gives rise to "disregard". Presence of your minor child just nails the coffin shut for the cop. Did you give him a copy of your driving resume before you did your donut? Of course not, so how would he know what a great driver you are. By the way, here in NY there is no speed required for reckless driving, just the manner in which the motorists operates his vehicle. You can be unsafe at 10 and perfectly fine at 100.

                Comment


                • #9
                  You are an idiot. I would have charged child endangerment, and it would stick here in CA, and you would be in jail.

                  Your brother is correct: you aren't telling the whole story.
                  You don't lay rubber at 10 mph...

                  Dont try and BS The Badge.
                  Now go home and get your shine box!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by grahambo0101 View Post

                    Thank you for your input. However, in no way was my daughter in any danger at any time. The risk is much greater just driving to grocery store on a public roads . Also, when defining reckless driving, I don't see how age would matter. If the argument is I put the passenger in danger, dossent matter how old/young they are?
                    You are correct that the age doesn't matter since both a 10 yr old and a 70 yr old are at the same risk

                    The difference is the 70 yr old is OLD ENOUGH to place themselves in that position..........a 10 yr old trusts their older family members and in no way , shape or form has the maturity to make a decision to place themselves in the danger you put her in.

                    I could care less about you hurting someone that agrees to letting you do something stupid with them in the car..................the child can not give that consent

                    Originally posted by Dinosaur32 View Post
                    By the way, here in NY there is no speed required for reckless driving, just the manner in which the motorists operates his vehicle. You can be unsafe at 10 and perfectly fine at 100.
                    Same in Iowa
                    Last edited by Iowa #1603; 08-02-2017, 09:45 PM.
                    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      However, in no way was my daughter in any danger at any time.
                      Bull-shiite

                      The burnouts were intentional, so reckless driving here.

                      Depending on circumstances possibly misdemeanor child abuse.
                      "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

                      "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Based on the amount of rubber you left on the pavement, I'm having a hard time believing you were only doing 10 MPH and that you only went around once. Don't expect the judge to fall off the turnip truck for that one.

                        Even though you were in a parking lot, it was on the grounds of a public education facility, so CVC 21113(c) treats it as a highway. If you were the sole occupant of the vehicle I would have cited you for CVC 23109(c) (Exhibition), but with the kid in the car, citing you for CVC23103 was a kindness, as I can think of harsher things that might stick.

                        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Another OP who was calm, respectful, etc while the Officer was screaming, yanking his gun out of his holster, acting out of control...

                          I wish these ****tards would just post somewhere else or self select...
                          Now go home and get your shine box!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bpd303 View Post
                            I would have to agree with your brother. Is your Vet red?
                            Looking at your picture you did more than one donut, I count at least three and given all the other burnout marks, I would venture there has been some complaints about people driving like idiots in that lot.
                            It's one donut, actually about 480 degrees so little less than 1 1/2. Both rears spin together. The rest are not mine. It appears to be a popular donut destination. Not really the issue, cop acknowledged I only did one, he was watching. It's a white vet.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dinosaur32 View Post
                              Understand this....cops genuinely like children. You driving around at night on public property certainly gives rise to "disregard". Presence of your minor child just nails the coffin shut for the cop. Did you give him a copy of your driving resume before you did your donut? Of course not, so how would he know what a great driver you are. By the way, here in NY there is no speed required for reckless driving, just the manner in which the motorists operates his vehicle. You can be unsafe at 10 and perfectly fine at 100.
                              Point taken. Appreciate your input

                              Comment

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