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  • speed limits a govt conspirACY?

    http://www.magma.ca/~fyst/appndxd.htm

    FROM THE ARTICLE:

    "In fact, incorrect speed limits are even detrimental to safety. For the past 60 years, every known qualified traffic engineering report had proposed that speed limits should be set at the 85th percentile speed of free flowing traffic under good conditions. That is, 85% of the population will travel at or below that speed during light traffic and clear weather, without enforcement presence. The upper 15% is defined to be excessive. The 85th percentile speed is also the safest speed to travel, below or above which the risk curve starts to rise. But most speed limits in Ontario are found to be posted between the 30th to 50th percentile, with the 400-series highways as low as 10th percentile. With speed limits this low, they allow the police to pull over anyone, anytime they want, as evident in the maximum production, tag-team speed traps often found on Highway 401 and 417 during long holiday weekends. Don't these ludicrous limits make you wonder what their purpose is when they define 90% of the population as offenders?

    The government might be telling you that almost all accidents are due to driving in excess of the speed limits so and so, and they have statistics to prove that. This point is moot because if the speed limits are set too low then no wonder why all accidents happen at above them. Imagine if all speed limits are 1km/h, then all accidents will have to be due to driving in excess of speed limits. This tells you absolutely nothing useful because some other factors such as alcohol might be related, but they put the blame on speed instead. One can interpret statistics by correlation in anyway they wish. If I say 99% of the drivers who are involved in accidents did not wear rocket ship underpants (Calvin and Hobbes), then should the Government make a law and require all motorists to wear such underpants while driving? This is also a perfectly valid correlation, albeit a ridiculous one.

    According to the same 1996 Ontario study, this correlation is not even true. Of the 384,453 vehicle collisions involving property damage, personal injury and fatality, only 25,943 were deemed to be speed related. That's a whopping 6.7%. Other major factors include following too closely, failure to yield right-of-way, inattentive driving and so on. Yet, 60% of all the Highway Traffic Act convictions were for speeding! It seems like they are targeting the wrong group of people. If we leave out the equipment violations, administrative tickets such as vehicle registration and other non-moving violations, 4 out of 5 traffic tickets were speeding tickets. And they keep telling us that speeding tickets were for safety! And that they only target the "dangerous drivers who jeopardize the safety of our kids and other road users".
    "

  • #2
    Speeding


    I doubt very much that it rises to the "conspiracy" level, but there are certainly a lot of like-minded interests at work. Some law enforcement agencies, government bureaucracies, insurance companies and even electronics manufacturers have their hands in the cookie jar - and the average motorist ends up paying the bill.

    Sure, the speed limit is supposed to be about safety - and is indeed necessary in many places. However, I believe that most speed limits, particularly on limited-access US and Interstate highways, are deliberately set about 10 to 15 mph below the maximum "safe" speed.

    Clearly, other factors and driving habits are involved.....but it is easiest to blame speed as a cause since it is progressively harder to correct a mistake or avoid a crash as you go faster.

    Short of having some type of 'graduated' driver's license based upon the demonstrated skill of each motorist, we are unfortunately stuck with making our laws and building our infrastructure around the lowest common denominator of society.

    If our lawmakers and authorities were honestly interested in safer and more efficient highways, there would be a lot more enforcement of other traffic laws besides speeding. Failure to signal directional changes and lack of proper lane usage (i.e., keeping right unless passing) are far more dangerous to safe traffic flow than is a competent, sober and alert driver traveling at a velocity that might be higher than the posted limit.

    Follow the money trail and you'll at least get a glimpse about the larger picture. Find out which offenses help states get more federal highway funds or "equipment grants" from insurance companies to agencies which are encouraged to use the new speed devices to write more tickets. Didn't GEICO get caught on this scheme several years ago?

    I could go on and on ad nauseam about this topic, but I shall defer to greater minds......at least for tonight. I am not wearing my flame suit right now, so I am going to quit while I am ahead.
    Last edited by VA Dutch; 11-02-2006, 08:16 PM.

    The comments above reflect my personal opinion as a private citizen, ordinary motorist and all-around good guy.

    The aforementioned advice should not be construed to represent any type of professional opinion, legal counsel or other type of instruction with regard to traffic laws, judicial proceedings or official agency policy.

    ------------------------------------------------

    "Ignorance on fire is hotter than knowledge on ice."

    Comment


    • #3
      #1 - Statistics are out of Canada, so there's a difference

      #2 - Most officers don't cite until you're 15+ over the posted speed limit

      #3 - http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles...iles/think.pdf

      In other words, your information is flawed
      I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

      Comment


      • #4
        i havd stats fro the usa too il find ina min

        Comment


        • #5
          Yep, it's a government conspiracy. And, now that we know that you know that we know, we'll be watching you...
          "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
          -Friedrich Nietzsche

          Comment


          • #6
            well i do agree witht the article that they shoudconcentrate more on reckless and drunk drivers insteadof speeders. and there have been cases of speed traps

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by SURGEAHOLIC
              well i do agree witht the article that they shoudconcentrate more on reckless and drunk drivers insteadof speeders. and there have been cases of speed traps
              we are out to get you, I'm in your house now and clocked you on your way to the kitchen...slow it down pal or I will write you, the home is a safe environment - and you are walking too damn fast.
              "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Orwell

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SURGEAHOLIC
                well i do agree witht the article that they shoudconcentrate more on reckless and drunk drivers insteadof speeders. and there have been cases of speed traps
                Not much difference between speeders and reckless drivers.

                btw....In Davidson Co. (Nashville, TN), by county statute anyone doing 15 or more mph over the posted limit is automatically deemed to be driving reckless and it's on the burden of the driver to prove otherwise.

                In other words, if you're going 15+ over the limit, I can automatically cite you for reckless driving.

                Per NHTSA, if there's a direct correlation between high speeds and fatal crashes, wouldn't it be safe to say that speeding is reckless driving? Most states/counties/cities define reckless driving as driving in a willful and wanton disregard for public safety. I would say that high speeds fall into this category most of the time.
                I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't understand how the government can say that "speed kills" when there are fewer accidents per mile on the authobahn..which has NO speed limit..

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    fewer accidents per mile on the authobahn
                    And they have vehicles built specifically for speed everywhere you look: Lambourghini, Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, etc, etc.

                    They do have speed limits. At least they did while I spend my two years there. The speed limits kept we american drivers in the slow lane, where we belonged.

                    Penalties are also MUCH higher for violating their traffic laws.
                    I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.

                    Douglas MacArthur

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't care.

                      I see the necessity for them.

                      I see a benifit to them.

                      I sometimes disagree with the number posted on the sign.

                      I obey them in my travels.

                      I enforce them in my work.


                      Hey .... It's a living.

                      "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

                      "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

                      >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

                      Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Null
                        I don't understand how the government can say that "speed kills" when there are fewer accidents per mile on the authobahn..which has NO speed limit..
                        The tests you are required to pass in Europe to obtain a driver's license are 10 times harder than any state in the U.S. It's wayyy to easy to get a driver's license here and it shows with all the moronic drivers that are killing people every day (i.e. speeding and DUI's)...
                        I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The autobahn is also considerably better maintained than any of the roads around here.

                          Speed limits are a fact of life, whatever the reason behind them. If people would use their heads and drive reasonably then you could probably lighten up the limits a little, but we know people don't think before they act some of the time.

                          Covman

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Great comments and replies, folks. So far, this has not degenerated into name-calling and personal insults.

                            As for speed being the "cause" of crashes, I am certain that it sometimes may be.....although it is probably speed combined with lack of skill or other driver error that gets folks in trouble.

                            Now, statistically speaking, I find it kind of interesting that our safest highways with lowest fatality rates (per million miles driven) are often the ones with the highest speed limits and fastest traffic flow.

                            Methinks this is going to be a long thread, and I look forward to checking back later to see the posts of everyone here.



                            The comments above reflect my personal opinion as a private citizen, ordinary motorist and all-around good guy.

                            The aforementioned advice should not be construed to represent any type of professional opinion, legal counsel or other type of instruction with regard to traffic laws, judicial proceedings or official agency policy.

                            ------------------------------------------------

                            "Ignorance on fire is hotter than knowledge on ice."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You can't compare the autobahn to the US highways. The autobahn has highly sofisticated trauma helicopters that respond to accients. There are accidents at very high speeds and people get pretty messed up but the response time is nearly nothing and the helicopters are flying trauma centers. Here in the US you have 50 redlights 3,000 cars and underpaid EMS drivers trying to get there then drive you 20 minutes to a trauma center. It is very different, plus the autobahn construction is unmatched. The road is made from special materials.
                              Marine Infantry - Taking out the trash one country at a time.

                              "You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are."

                              "Freedom is not free, but the U.S. Marine Corps will pay most of your share."

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