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Q? for the LEO's....Speeding Violation....How would you handle it?

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  • Q? for the LEO's....Speeding Violation....How would you handle it?

    There is a website out the called "TicketAssassin". This site provides guides/tips/information pertaining to speeding violations, and how to get out of them. When I discovered this site, I read some scripts this website provided and it stumped me on how I would answer them if I was a LEO(which im working toward at the moment for CHP). My question is this, How would you handle the paticular situation, and what type of response would you give to his/her questions/accusations?

    Situation: You just pulled over a vehical for speeding.

    Note: I have abbriviated the senario, so if you want more background, here is the LINK. I would suggest scanning over it so you get an idea.

    You approach the vehical, question the individual on why you pulled him over, and the conversation continues, he/she asks the following:

    (SPEEDING): Motorist: "Officer, how did you determine my speed?"
    Officer: "I paced you."
    Motorist reply: "Fine. When was your speedometer last calibrated? May I see proof of calibration?"

    OR

    Officer: "I used radar."(MOST TICKETS OFF FREEWAY ARE RADAR)
    Motorist: "Fine. May I see your tuning fork and calibration record?"(Many radars are calibrated with a tuning fork.)
    Officer: "Here they are."
    (Note: officer not legally required to show you the radar reading itself, but feel free to ask.)

    OR

    Motorist: "When was the required TRAFFIC AND ENGINEERING SURVEY last conducted on this road? Was it conducted within the last seven years? If so, what did it determine the SAFE SPEED on this road to be?
    Officer: "I don't know any of that?"
    Motorist: " Then can I assume this is a SPEED TRAP by definition of VC 40802 and that your "evidence" is illegal by VC40803?"

    If the last question seemed a bit too complex, try this:

    Motorist: "Officer, how long have you guys had this Speed Trap set up?"
    Officer: "'Bout half an hour."(though any answer not categorically denying that he is conducting a Speed Trap might work.)
    Motorist: Thanks for that information, officer. Are you aware that Speed Traps (VC 40802) and Speed Trap Evidence (VC 40803) are illegal?"
    Officer: "You got me there. You're free to go." (Yes, this might occur.)

    Note: Speed traps basicaly are exempt from local street,road, road, and school zone.

    (other citations): Ask him about his ticket "quota" indirectly:

    Motorist: "Officer, are you permitted to give me a warning or are you required to only write citations today?
    Officer: "They sent me here to write tickets, not to give warnings."
    Motorist: "I thought you were here to promote traffic safety; what you described sounds like a quota." (quota's are illegal: VC 41602)
    (Officers can always write a warning for a 1 point infraction, so if he tells you he can't, he's indirectly admitting to some sort of directed quota.)


    In my opinion, I'm a little confused on the speed trap VC, and speed trap evidence. From how I see it, it seems marking sections of the highway is illegal ( a quarter mile). I mean if a CHP airplane can time the vehicals traveling distance from one marker to another to determine its speed, I would think that its logical. It proves the vehical was speeding, therefore, legitimate. From what the law states, its not????


    On another note, What was your personal opinion about the TickietAssassin website?
    Inspect to Expect..

  • #2
    That's easy.

    He's not entitled to a road-side discovery session. I'd hand him his ticket and say "See you in court." He would get all the suppporting documentation he is legally entitled to, and not any more.

    I do not engage in road-side debates. Have a nice day.
    You can now follow me on twitter.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ditto!!

      Smile, please press hard 4 copies, .


      When they get to court on a radar Cite you will provide them the info they are entitled too before you go in front of a judge. If they still want to look foolish they will contest it in front of the judge, if not they will plead guilty and pay the fine. As for pace, they can request the vehicle calibration before the court date in writing and we will provide it to them (we bring it anyway).

      I love internet lawyers and by the way .................. flicking the quarter and asking how fast it is going doesn't fly either.
      Last edited by CarCop; 12-01-2005, 08:16 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Oy! For California only:

        Originally posted by RookieD

        Motorist: "When was your speedometer last calibrated? May I see proof of calibration?"

        Motorist: "May I see your tuning fork and calibration record?"(Many radars are calibrated with a tuning fork.)

        You can obtain this information free of charge by filing an informal discovery request with the Custodian of Records at my office.


        Originally posted by RookieD

        Motorist: "When was the required TRAFFIC AND ENGINEERING SURVEY last conducted on this road? Was it conducted within the last seven years? If so, what did it determine the SAFE SPEED on this road to be?

        Two possible answers here. Pick whichever one applies:

        1. The (insert your city name) police department is not the custodian of records for those items. You will have to redirect your inquiry to (pick whichever one applies) - CalTrans, County Roads, or City Public Works, etc.

        or

        2. You are not being cited for violating a prima facie speed limit, so no survey is required.


        Originally posted by RookieD

        Motorist: "Officer, how long have you guys had this Speed Trap set up?"

        We don't operate speed traps, sir or madam. Speed traps are illegal in California.


        Originally posted by RookieD

        Motorist: "Officer, are you permitted to give me a warning or are you required to only write citations today?

        The answer to this will vary from agency to agency. Some give their officers absolute discretion on whether to cite while others have a sliding scale such as: 0-5 over, may stop, may warn; 5-10 over, may stop, may cite; 10-20 over, shall stop, may cite; 20+ over, shall stop, shall cite, etc. This does not impose a numerical quota. Instead, it simply defines the department's enforcement philosophy.

        In any case, if the driver is being a ******** you can always (truthfully) tell him that he is inquiring about a law enforcement procedure which, under the California Public Records Act, is exempt from public disclosure.


        Originally posted by RookieD

        In my opinion, I'm a little confused on the speed trap VC, and speed trap evidence. From how I see it, it seems marking sections of the highway is illegal ( a quarter mile). I mean if a CHP airplane can time the vehicals traveling distance from one marker to another to determine its speed, I would think that its logical. It proves the vehical was speeding, therefore, legitimate.
        Flight and ground officers are taught to visually estimate speed within a one or two mile accuracy rate. They will testify in court based on that expertise alone and not on any timing between markers in the roadway.

        And before you ask, many people spotted speeding by aircraft will insist that only the air officer can cite them because the ground officer did not personally observe them speeding and the law only allows for an officer to make an arrest for this type of crime when it is committed in his presence. The authority for the ground officer to cite is found in Section 839 of the Penal Code (but you will have to read the case law behind it to understand how it works).


        Originally posted by RookieD

        On another note, What was your personal opinion about the TickietAssassin website?
        I am mildly amused by them. People would come into my office all full of **** and vinegar, assuming we were a bunch of stupid cops and thinking that because of their new found website knowledge, they were going to get out of their ticket. Instead they discovered the law is a lot more complex that these websites indicate and that they are still going to lose in court.

        However on the bright side, websites like that are responsible for creating at least one full time position in my office, solely for the purpose of responding to discovery requests.
        Last edited by L-1; 12-01-2005, 09:48 PM.
        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

        Comment


        • #5
          Don't debate these bozo's roadside.

          Here's your paper, move on.

          Oh, and have a nice day.
          You can now follow me on twitter.

          Comment


          • #6
            The people who come up with this stupid crap think that most cops will fall into their little "traps" of roadside court. I won't do it. It is neither the time nor the place. If it's a misdemeanor and you refuse to sign, you go to jail. You're not required to sign infractions. The less you talk with these people the easier.

            My "schpeel" (sp?) is pretty simple.

            "Hello, State Trooper...I checked your speed at 80 mph in a 60 mph zone. I need to see your driver's license."

            <While digging for D/L> "I also need to see your proof of insurance. Is this your current address on your driver's license? Remain in the vehicle I'll be back with you shortly."

            "This is a citation for speeding. It has a fine payable to the <insert county> district court located in <insert city>. If you wish to appear in court, your court date is <insert date> at the same location. If you have any questions, you can call the courthouse and they'll be able to help you. Be careful merging back into traffic. Drive safely."

            Don't give them the time to carry on that much conversation with them and don't stop somebody unless you're sure of yourself.

            -Nick-

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah just more proof , that Imbeciles can make websites. The second some idiot starts, up that kind of crap, they pretty well finalize my decision, that guys getting his day in court.

              The second somebody starts playing roadside lawyer, without a barcard, they are going to get something to remember me by.
              Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RookieD
                Motorist: "Officer, how long have you guys had this Speed Trap set up?"
                Actually, I've gotten this one once or twice. My answer? "Speed Traps are illegal sir." Once I even asked a kid to define a speed trap. He gave the wrong definition of course.

                Sounds like this website was made by a bitter jailhouse attourney. Unless you're a solictor or DA, chances are you won't know more traffic law than the officer pulling you over (unless it's me ). Asking for discovery on the side of the road will only prompt the officer to inspect your vehicle for saftey and cite you for any equipment violations- including (but no limited to) Altered suspention (for you red necks and low-riders), window tinting, tag positioning and display, and the ever popular seat belt violation. I've even written one for Improper Use of Horn. If I get enough equipment violations I could deem your vehicle unsafe and impound it.
                You have no right to not be offended.-Neal Boortz

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree with the others, don't go down that path with them. If they insist, just tell them to file with the court, there ain't no trials held out here on the roadside. Explain the summons and what a refusal to sign means, and get on with it.

                  Never play their game.
                  "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

                  "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

                  >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

                  Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I absolutely LOVE IT when people try to act like they know what they are talking about. I think more websites like this should be put up so it makes my job more interesting. I had a guy last night say to me:

                    "Officer, I want to see your radar gun for proof I was going that fast."
                    Me: "I'm sorry sir but for officer safety reasons I need you to stay in the vehicle."
                    Deush: "Well then you aren't allowed to give me a ticket."
                    Me: "I'll be back in a few minutes sir."
                    It's 106 miles to Chicago, we've got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses....Hit it!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I always find websites like this and the roadside lawyers they tend to create to be quite amusing, myself. His first two suggestions are just fine, but everything after that would likely INCREASE a person's chances of getting a ticket from me.

                      I'm always more than happy to answer legitimate questions regarding the violation and the citation when I have someone stopped, but it isn't court out there...if they want to argue technicalities or legalities with you, tell them to go to court and plea not guilty. Peope who want to play roadside lawyer and check out my equipment, calibration documentation, etc, get the simple answer..."Officer can you show me..." "No."

                      Reminds me of a local DUI attorney who went to the bars and passed out papers with a "How To" list on getting out of DUI's. We would stop people and they would roll down their window about a quarter inch and pass the paper out to us...kinda screamed "DRUNK!" whenever it happened. People didn't realize that, if they got arrested for DUI, he made money, so it was in his best interest to give them advice that WOULD get them arrested.
                      "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
                      -Friedrich Nietzsche

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mister Speeder, Meet Mister Nitestick...OUCH I was only kidding...
                        OK seriously? I like the idea and use it most of the time, Dont give them time to ask too many questions. OR just say you have the right to plead not guilty and take a hearing.
                        The above does go against the "Verbal Judo" or as I call it, Verbal DOODOO. It is the 8 step program that we were taught to be politically correct and nice. I dont want to post the whole shebang here but I think there is a website for it. I have never had anyone even ask me those listed above but similar stuff and people LOVE to argue, curbside layweres. Go away. See me in court, preferrably on a pass day...
                        "I pay your salary" Yeah So, Can I get a freakin raise???

                        It takes a village, this he knows is true

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The moment a traffic violator starts debating me a couple of things happen:
                          1) I start following the "7 step violator contact" script as tightly as possible. And I don't answer any questions until I get all the info I need.
                          2) All discretion I have regaring a warning goes out the door, they get citied.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RookieD
                            There is a website out the called "TicketAssassin". This site provides guides/tips/information pertaining to speeding violations, and how to get out of them. When I discovered this site, I read some scripts this website provided and it stumped me on how I would answer them if I was a LEO(which im working toward at the moment for CHP). My question is this, How would you handle the paticular situation, and what type of response would you give to his/her questions/accusations?

                            Situation: You just pulled over a vehical for speeding.

                            Note: I have abbriviated the senario, so if you want more background, here is the LINK. I would suggest scanning over it so you get an idea.

                            You approach the vehical, question the individual on why you pulled him over, and the conversation continues, he/she asks the following:

                            (SPEEDING): Motorist: "Officer, how did you determine my speed?"
                            Officer: "I paced you."
                            Motorist reply: "Fine. When was your speedometer last calibrated? May I see proof of calibration?"

                            OR

                            Officer: "I used radar."(MOST TICKETS OFF FREEWAY ARE RADAR)
                            Motorist: "Fine. May I see your tuning fork and calibration record?"(Many radars are calibrated with a tuning fork.)
                            Officer: "Here they are."
                            (Note: officer not legally required to show you the radar reading itself, but feel free to ask.)

                            OR

                            Motorist: "When was the required TRAFFIC AND ENGINEERING SURVEY last conducted on this road? Was it conducted within the last seven years? If so, what did it determine the SAFE SPEED on this road to be?
                            Officer: "I don't know any of that?"
                            Motorist: " Then can I assume this is a SPEED TRAP by definition of VC 40802 and that your "evidence" is illegal by VC40803?"

                            If the last question seemed a bit too complex, try this:

                            Motorist: "Officer, how long have you guys had this Speed Trap set up?"
                            Officer: "'Bout half an hour."(though any answer not categorically denying that he is conducting a Speed Trap might work.)
                            Motorist: Thanks for that information, officer. Are you aware that Speed Traps (VC 40802) and Speed Trap Evidence (VC 40803) are illegal?"
                            Officer: "You got me there. You're free to go." (Yes, this might occur.)

                            Note: Speed traps basicaly are exempt from local street,road, road, and school zone.

                            (other citations): Ask him about his ticket "quota" indirectly:

                            Motorist: "Officer, are you permitted to give me a warning or are you required to only write citations today?
                            Officer: "They sent me here to write tickets, not to give warnings."
                            Motorist: "I thought you were here to promote traffic safety; what you described sounds like a quota." (quota's are illegal: VC 41602)
                            (Officers can always write a warning for a 1 point infraction, so if he tells you he can't, he's indirectly admitting to some sort of directed quota.)


                            In my opinion, I'm a little confused on the speed trap VC, and speed trap evidence. From how I see it, it seems marking sections of the highway is illegal ( a quarter mile). I mean if a CHP airplane can time the vehicals traveling distance from one marker to another to determine its speed, I would think that its logical. It proves the vehical was speeding, therefore, legitimate. From what the law states, its not????


                            On another note, What was your personal opinion about the TickietAssassin website?
                            Remember a ton of this stuff you are placing on here refers to one state. In many states there is no such thing as a speed trap. In many states (including mine), I don't have to show them or tell them anything about the radar unit in my vehicle. If they come in to court whining about wanting to see all of the radar equipment/calibration dates/etc the judge, in our case many times, will say "guilty, appeal my decision when you want to."
                            I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Northtechsan
                              The moment a traffic violator starts debating me a couple of things happen:
                              1) I start following the "7 step violator contact" script as tightly as possible. And I don't answer any questions until I get all the info I need.
                              2) All discretion I have regaring a warning goes out the door, they get citied.
                              DAMN, you're a hard ***.





                              My kind of guy.
                              Kelly

                              We are the thin blue line
                              between you
                              and all the money in the world.

                              And no you can't have any.

                              Comment

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