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  • double yellow line?

    I am looking for some clarification of the California Vehicle Code. I was in a shopping center parking lot in Twentynine Palms, Calif. I turned left out of the driveway and crossed a double yellow line. I was pulled over by a sheriff's deputy, who told me that it was illegal to make the turn because I could only cross a double yellow line if I were entering or exiting a 'private' driveway. He was polite and professional, and wrote me a warning that referenced California Vehicle Code 21460. The code states that a driver can cross a double yellow line if driving "into or out of a driveway or private road". California Vehicle Code section 490 says a '"Private road or driveway" is a way or place in private ownership and used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner but not by other members of the public'. I cannot find any definitive answers to these questions: Is a driveway into a business (eg. the shopping mall) a private driveway? Can I assume that if the owner of the business wants me to shop there, then I have implied permission to use the driveway? Or does a driveway into a commercial parking lot fall into some other category?

  • #2
    What you did is not illegal. I worked almost 30 years enforcing traffic laws in CA including the general area you were stopped in. I don't even know what a "written warning" is. It is ok to enter the roadway from the lot by turning left to proceed on your way. This all assumes there is no signage prohibiting entering into traffic from this private driveway or parking lot or making a left turn and that you did not violate anyone's right of way.

    Comment


    • #3
      I wasn't there, have no not heard, nor will hear the other side of the story. As a general practice this forum does not exist for the purpose of second guessing, critiquing, criticizing, or Monday Morning Quarterbacking the actions of other officers or agencies. Additionally, we do not routinely or typically dispense legal advice.

      I will also not argue with the reply you received in Post#2, except to say that " written warnings" are an enforcement tool for the agency from which I'm retired. The Deputy could have issued a regular citation for violating the applicable section of the CVC had he/she so chosen. Simply stated, you got a break. Be happy about that.

      Should you desire further legal insight(s) into your question, you should seek competent legal advice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 416matt View Post
        referenced California Vehicle Code 21460. The code states that a driver can cross a double yellow line if driving "into or out of a driveway or private road". California Vehicle Code section 490 says a '"Private road or driveway" is a way or place in private ownership and used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner but not by other members of the public'.

        I don't see by any stretch of the imagination where an entrance to a shopping center would meet the definition of a "private drive or way" as described above in highlighted text
        Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
          I don't see by any stretch of the imagination where an entrance to a shopping center would meet the definition of a "private drive or way" as described above in highlighted text
          It definitely is in IL. A shopping center is a private business entity, not a public highway.
          183 FBINA

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          • #6
            He was polite and professional, and wrote me a warning that referenced California Vehicle Code 21460. The code states that a driver can cross a double yellow line if driving "into or out of a driveway or private road".
            Is a driveway into a business (eg. the shopping mall) a private driveway?
            I'd be willing to bet that, in this case, it wasn't or you wouldn't have gotten the warning.
            "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

            "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

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            • #7
              PhilipCal--I'm happy I got a break. But I'm not sure I understand the Calif Vehicle Code 21460, and how it applies to driveways leading into shopping centers (or businesses). I am more than willing to seek competent legal advice to get a answer to my question, but I suspect a lawyer will just tell me what I want to hear (if I pay them enough).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ISPCAPT View Post
                It definitely is in IL. A shopping center is a private business entity, not a public highway.
                I understand that completely Captain.....also in Iowa.................but I was reading the CALIFORNIA definition
                Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 416matt View Post
                  I am looking for some clarification of the California Vehicle Code. I was in a shopping center parking lot in Twentynine Palms, Calif. I turned left out of the driveway and crossed a double yellow line. I was pulled over by a sheriff's deputy, who told me that it was illegal to make the turn because I could only cross a double yellow line if I were entering or exiting a 'private' driveway. He was polite and professional, and wrote me a warning that referenced California Vehicle Code 21460. The code states that a driver can cross a double yellow line if driving "into or out of a driveway or private road". California Vehicle Code section 490 says a '"Private road or driveway" is a way or place in private ownership and used for vehicular travel by the owner and those having express or implied permission from the owner but not by other members of the public'. I cannot find any definitive answers to these questions: Is a driveway into a business (eg. the shopping mall) a private driveway? Can I assume that if the owner of the business wants me to shop there, then I have implied permission to use the driveway? Or does a driveway into a commercial parking lot fall into some other category?
                  Can you post a Google Earth snapshot of the driveway and double lines in question?
                  In the meantime have a second look at post #2 by 1-ADAM 12.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So are there only 2 solid yellow lines, or are there 4 solid yellow lines.

                    21460 applies to 2 solid yellow lines and making a left turn across them is not illegal. If there were 4 solid yellow lines that is the same as a traffic island and can not be crossed at any time.

                    Oh, also I don't know of any agency and that includes San Bernardino County Sheriff that issues written warnings. CHP does do admin cites for equipment violations which is somewhat the same....
                    Today's Quote:

                    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
                    Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 416matt View Post
                      PhilipCal--I'm happy I got a break. But I'm not sure I understand the Calif Vehicle Code 21460, and how it applies to driveways leading into shopping centers (or businesses). I am more than willing to seek competent legal advice to get a answer to my question, but I suspect a lawyer will just tell me what I want to hear (if I pay them enough).






                      Not at all certain that merely paying an attorney enough will get you the answer you desire. Possibly true in some cases, but you have a pretty good chance of an honest reply in the majority of cases.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here is the GoogleEarth image. The driveway I pulled out of is in the center. I turned left, crossed the double yellow line and crossed the left-turn lane, to end up in the first westbound lane.
                        29Palms.jpg

                        As for the written warning: The form said "County of San Bernadino Sheriff's Dept. NOTICE TO APPEAR". Everything was filled out, but in the red signature box, the deputy wrote 'warning' and I didn't sign it. In the spaces for Date and Time to appear, he wrote N/A.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Not a violation
                          Today's Quote:

                          "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
                          Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 1-ADAM 12 View Post
                            What you did is not illegal. I worked almost 30 years enforcing traffic laws in CA including the general area you were stopped in. I don't even know what a "written warning" is. It is ok to enter the roadway from the lot by turning left to proceed on your way. This all assumes there is no signage prohibiting entering into traffic from this private driveway or parking lot or making a left turn and that you did not violate anyone's right of way.
                            Originally posted by sanitizer View Post
                            Can you post a Google Earth snapshot of the driveway and double lines in question?
                            In the meantime have a second look at post #2 by 1-ADAM 12.
                            Originally posted by mdrdep View Post
                            Not a violation

                            Thanks for posting the Google Earth image, I'm glad someone reads my post...

                            1-ADAM 12 and mdrdp gave you the correct answer.
                            Last edited by sanitizer; 08-08-2014, 09:06 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm a Deputy Sheriff in California and I've never heard of anyone (police officer, deputy, CHP, etc) using a Notice to Appear as a written warning.

                              Also, not a violation in the picture you provided.

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