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  • should I keep trying?

    Is "resigning in lieu of termination" (not for a disciplinary issue) an aspect that will be an inherently impossible hurdle to overcome in trying to get hired?

    I was in the academy, less than a month away from graduation...and was told I had to resign (or they'd terminate me) simply for "not being aggressive enough" in scenarios. I was top 5 overall in my class, and one of the few females. Held up well through academy before I was blindsided by this.

    My instructors told me this wouldn't be a problem and that I'd get picked up fairly quickly by another agency and I would fare far better in my second go-around thanks to experience...but that hasn't happened yet. I've applied to a handful of agencies around my area but have struck out early in all of them. I've been upfront in letting them know about my situation but it seems like it's an automatic disqualification, even if some have said it's not.

    Is it even possible for me to get a second chance? Or am I wasting my time in continuing to apply when my chances are slim to none? I understand that scenarios are practicals, so having to resign because of it is likely considered a black mark on me. But is that really something that will prevent me from getting hired at all by another agency?

    Not sure if this is true or not...but I've been told this type of situation happens a lot for females, being told they're not aggressive enough.

  • #2
    None of us can answer this question. We did not see how you were doing. So it will be hard to give you a fair answer. If this career is what you want then it's gut check time. Sit down and sell yourself and see what you need to do. See what it is you need to train on and see what it will take. Best of luck.
    I'd rather be judged by 12 rather carried by 6.

    It should be noted that any and all post that are made are based on my own thought and opinions. And are not related or implied to represent the department I work for.

    Comment


    • #3
      You were going to be fired. That’s the issue, not that you resigned. It takes quite a bit for an agency to terminate an employee they spent thousands of dollars on, just for a scenario issue.

      Im betting there’s a bit more to this...
      Now go home and get your shine box!

      Comment


      • #4
        What the others have said.

        Usually a recruit is given numerous opportunities with scenario based training. In every academy I've attended or role played at each scenario was debriefed afterwards by the cadre with the recruit. Those that fail got additional chances, remediation and then more chances.

        I'm skeptical that this came out of the blue to be quite honest and I'm curious what the exact wording was. As CCCSD said it takes a lot for an agency to cut you loose once you've gotten so far in the academy that you are doing scenarios.

        And, in my academy one of the best fighters we had was female. I hated going up against her because she was fast and hit hard.

        Comment


        • #5
          For some reason I went back and re-read the op's post, and this stuck out at me...

          "...simply for not being aggressive enough in the scenarios..."

          You need to really consider your attitude with this. This job may at some point require you to step up and throw hands to save your life, you partners life or the life of an innocent. If your instructors cut you loose it wasn't because you "...simply weren't aggressive enough.." but rather that you lacked the necessary physical or internal strength to handle a live confrontation. Usually, it is more mental/internal then it is physical because some folks just can't turn on the mean switch.

          If you're applying locally it wouldn't surprise me if folks talked and there is a concern about hiring you due to the perceived lack of ability to handle the job. There are plenty more videos out there of LACK OF FORCE being used versus too much force and the last thing any agency head wants is a liability either way.

          Putting it another way....your cadre could have been doing you a favor and save your life based on your scenario performance.

          Comment


          • #6
            If you're not aggressive enough in a controlled, simulated environment with friendlies, you will never be aggressive enough for a real fight with a felon high on 3 day methamphetamine binge who really doesn't want to go back to jail. It's a huge safety risk not only for you but also your partners. If you hesitate, or second guess yourself on using force or aggression... believe me, the bad guys will key on it immediately and use it to their advantage. Things get ugly quick. They don't care if you're a female, minority, or top 5 in your class. You're the only thing standing between them and freedom.

            I work with really smart cops and some dumb ones. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. But the calls I hate going to the most are ones where I'll be second guessing my partner if things are going to get physical.

            I struggled on certain scenarios in the academy myself. I found out what i needed to work on, talked with staff, went in early and on weekends and did extra practice. Not everyone is a natural for this stuff.

            That being said, I've seen people asked to leave the academy, and come back with another department and pass...BUT ONLY after correcting their deficiencies. No one here knows all the specifics of your situation, but it is possible... however as mentioned above it might be "gut check" time for you if this is really the job you want and are going to put in the work.

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            • #7
              Sure, its possible, but I don't know if it is probable. The implication is that you sat back and let a dangerous situation unfold without taking any action, being more of a casual observer than a participant. It would be a huge breach of basic instruction for the academy staff not to expect mistakes, provide feedback, and provide multiple opportunities to succeed. It is irresponsible to do otherwise. So, there is more to the story, or the academy instructors failed to do their job correctly. A lot of employers are going to question why they should take a chance with their money to send you to an academy when you did not succeed at the first one. Are self sponsored academies an option where you are at? Personally, I don't like them, but it may allow you to work your way back into the field. You need to ask yourself if you should be in the arena of law enforcement. If you think you should, what can you do on your own to help correct the deficiency?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by terpinthecity View Post
                Is "resigning in lieu of termination" (not for a disciplinary issue) an aspect that will be an inherently impossible hurdle to overcome in trying to get hired?

                I was in the academy, less than a month away from graduation...and was told I had to resign (or they'd terminate me) simply for "not being aggressive enough" in scenarios. I was top 5 overall in my class, and one of the few females. Held up well through academy before I was blindsided by this.

                My instructors told me this wouldn't be a problem and that I'd get picked up fairly quickly by another agency and I would fare far better in my second go-around thanks to experience...but that hasn't happened yet. I've applied to a handful of agencies around my area but have struck out early in all of them. I've been upfront in letting them know about my situation but it seems like it's an automatic disqualification, even if some have said it's not.

                Is it even possible for me to get a second chance? Or am I wasting my time in continuing to apply when my chances are slim to none? I understand that scenarios are practicals, so having to resign because of it is likely considered a black mark on me. But is that really something that will prevent me from getting hired at all by another agency?

                Not sure if this is true or not...but I've been told this type of situation happens a lot for females, being told they're not aggressive enough.
                You probably are not going to be happy with this answer.....but I think you need to hear this

                Maybe ACADEMICALLY you were "top 5". However situationally you were not even close to passing the academy if the administration wanted to separate you after spending that much money on hiring and training. This happens many times. It's called not being cut out for the profession.

                Over the years I have seen MANY recruits who were able to finish the academy but really were not cut out for the profession. You didn't even get that far. I have watched people come back from school ready to rule the world ......and zero out in FTO. I have also seen people who made it past FTO, get on shift, and freeze when they were out on their own.

                The job isn't easy, it's not like other professions. You are out there pretty much alone ...., with little direct supervision with people's lives in your hands. Being able to think on your feet, following procedures,current laws, and do so in a calm manner is hard. If you aren't able to do this in a controlled situations like an academy you are going to be lost out in the real world. Scenario training is designed to make the new officer "comfortable" in dealing with situations.

                I have seen far too many people come onto the job, make it through school & FTO only to find out when they get on shift that they really don't like the JOB they spent the last 18 months preparing for. OR finding out they are just not cut out for the mechanics of being a cop. ( I also know people who have spent YEARS preparing for a job and find out they didn't like it.------think LAW school )

                Back when I was "field training " people and later when I was in supervision I had no problem with someone telling me they just were not happy with the job and were considering resigning because they were uncomfortable with the job or that the job wasn't for them . There is NO disgrace in understanding that and people need to understand that they are NOT the first person coming down the line that just wasn't cut out for the job.

                As stated above .......it is gut check time.

                I am not going to get into the male/female aspect..It is not a factor

                Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                Comment


                • Bing_Oh
                  Bing_Oh commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Normally, I'd chime in, but Iowa said it at least as well as I ever could have.

              • #9
                Ditto to what the others have said. If you were not aggressive enough in controlled scenarios, the probability of you being aggressive enough in a real life situation is between slim and none. No one is going to take a chance on that - except.......

                Your state more than likely has a number of investigator - peace officer positions that work in non-confrontational situations. The include consumer affairs, horse racing board, food & drug, health care services and labor standards, just to mention a few. Start applying there. You won't be driving around in uniform going Code 3 in a black and white, but these jobs can be challenging, fulfilling and well paying and they usually go through a specialized academy that is tailored for those positions.
                Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                Comment


                • #10
                  I have a buddy who was on patrol with his partner in a bad part of the city.

                  One day they are interviewing a suspect when suddenly the suspect realized he was going to get handcuffed and decided to start fighting.

                  My buddy and the suspect are fighting and rolling around on the ground and what does his partner do? Picks up my buddy’s cap that fell off during the fight and holds onto it. Doesn’t call backup, doesn’t help his partner, just sits there and watches this fight unfold.

                  These are the people who cannot be in law enforcement. His partner was not aggressive at all and put people at risk. If push comes to shove and you’re not aggressive enough then it’s time to rethink your career.

                  Many problems can be discovered and course corrected in the academy and FTO. It sounds like despite your best attempt, the issues remain uncorrected.

                  You can try other agencies that may take a chance on you but you need to ask yourself if this is an issue you can overcome. If it isn’t, it’s best to save yourself time and money and find a different kind of work.

                  Best of luck

                  Comment

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