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  • #31
    Originally posted by Johnny5678 View Post
    And let's delve into this post and quite frankly it's riddled with what I'll call a "Boomer Mentality" when it comes to things.

    It also shows that the higher ups are making concessions rather than taking this Boomer Mentality that "It's a privilege to work here so YOU should be honored!"... that ignores what younger people want nowadays.

    Plenty of the older guys would just dismiss that and say be tougher. That just gets an "Okay boomer" reply.

    I don't even know where to start on the sheer ridiculousness of this statement. I wanted to use another word, but I'll be polite.This is Boomer Mentality.

    Your statement also shows how the crusty old people are out of touch with reality (based on your profile.... 20 years retired military then the assumption you've been a cop 10 years if you joined when you started, so you're probably what... like 50 or so?).

    Yet older members have the audacity to stand there and act like marijuana is like fentanyl laced heroine and it's going to be the downfall of an applicant. Who cares if it's illegal federally? Seriously. If an applicant is a good applicant and had partook in marijuana use that is not "excessive" and not "recent" then why not hire them?

    I'd rather have a guy who smoked marijuana 100 times and the last time was 5 years ago then a guy who is in danger of becoming an alcoholic or gets drunk Friday and Saturday nights because of the stress of the job.

    Marijuana being a Schedule One drug is perhaps the biggest farce, lie, and bull when it comes to drug policy this country has ever done. Not getting into the politics of marijuana being a Schedule One drug, everyone who is honest and not a Boomer Mentality knows the "devil's lettuce" does not belong in damned Schedule One.

    ...we act like bankruptcy shows some sort of "risky" behavior or "immaturity" yet one guy I worked with had over $1,200 in various vehicle payments PER MONTH plus an expensive home.

    And we ALL know "that guy" who buys way too much crap and wonder how he pays for it.

    And stuff like smoking a bit of pot in college doesn't really affect that.

    Oh man, I love that. "Youth and inexperience". Okay boomer, okay.

    You're probably mad that a guy with "youth and inexperience" is contradicting you. I get it. I've noticed that a lot on these forums. The older cops HATE it when the new ones contradict them. Times are changing. Thankfully. If you want to use the "youth and inexperience" to just dismiss my concerns, look in the mirror and hold up a sign saying "I'm the problem" when departments have issues recruiting and retaining people. I would bet you're one of those who are insanely resistant to any changes. Your statements on marijuana are the usual blind obedience that many younger people simply will not follow. And you know what? That's good. Like I said, times are changing. No longer can you expect people to just blindly follow or blindly accept something because it is "tradition" and that will make this job and our profession even stronger. There's a time and place to listen and not ask question, we all know when those situations are, but this stuff... the administrative stuff... is where those of us with youth and our ear to the ground and who can actual identify with future recruits, know what it is we're doing.

    As a younger guy what gets me is the double standards, like the ones I highlighted and discussed above. I also hate applying our standards to outsiders... we should hold ourselves- as officers- to a higher standard than even the people we're looking at hiring.

    Because we see people with the late 90's mentality and the "do what I say, not as I do" that permeates a lot of the upper ranks. It's the Boomer Mentality (Boomers who have pushed this country into insane debt, neglected our infrastructure and social programs, endless wars, etc) and it extends into this profession.

    It's always the older members who get the most hot and bothered by the younger ones not lining up and saluting "Yes sir." (I'm half expecting you to accuse me of this now since I contradicted you.)
    You are officially "That Guy".
    Last edited by Aidokea; 01-29-2020, 01:09 PM.

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    • emtguy89
      emtguy89 commented
      Editing a comment
      hesrightyouknow.jpg

  • #32
    This thread is very disturbing. I agree with a lot that has been written, parts that I do not, but at the end of the day, we should be standing together.

    One of the jobs within the dept. that I really enjoy is teaching at the Academy. The energy and enthusiasm among the recruits is contagious. There are dirt bag officers in my dept. of all ages. There are outstanding officers of all ages.

    The public tends to generalize us due to a few bad apples. We don't need to do it to each other.

    Last edited by Zeitgeist1; 01-29-2020, 01:30 PM.

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    • #33
      Wow, I called that one correctly:

      https://forum.officer.com/forum/publ...ns/182399-eyes

      Comment


      • #34
        Originally posted by Johnny5678 View Post
        Let's just call this for what it is: you're not being truthful.
        False. I was exactly correct. You have what I call the "snowflake mentality" wherein you believe what you want is right, and everyone else is wrong and evil. Ad hominem attacks won't get you anywhere, either with "boomers" or anyone else.

        ...and you are the one being untruthful:

        https://forum.officer.com/forum/publ...ns/182399-eyes

        The problem is, you're writing this like you're a young cop... you're not. You haven't been hired yet, you haven't worked the road, you're on the outside looking in and have no idea what you're talking about.

        ...probably, you're the kid with a less-than-perfect record who wants to be a cop now and wants his past to be ignored. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

        Even if not, wait until youy DO get hired and have some experience under your belt before you start suggesting changes.

        In the mean time, stop pretending to be a cop.
        Last edited by tanksoldier; 01-30-2020, 01:53 PM.
        "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

        "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

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        • #35
          I've been doing this for a few years, also prior EMS and corrections, and I have to say "that guy" hit the nail on the head. The mentality seems to be like what the guy in the Christian Bale movie "Equilibrium" said, "It is not the message that is important, it is our adherence to it. Call it faith" when ordering a cop to do on the spot executions of "criminals" rather than have them interrogated and stand trial. Great and underrated movie.

          Can anyone tell me why having a tattoo makes you a bad cop? Like a little tattoo of a Bible verse or a cross or your kid's names and birthdates? I don't have any, but I worked with one that had full sleeves, legs, everything but face, and he was, and still is, a great officer.

          How does a beard make you a bad cop? It has never hindered me in the slightest. I could go into all the details of how extensive research has been done to debunk the idea that people don't trust beards or they're unprofessional.

          Outer vests and tactical equipment are too scary? Well so are guns for some people. Are you gonna take our guns next?

          Just because you got on before the academy was even required doesn't make you always right. We forget that most of these types were beating the living crap out of people in the head with straight batons and mag-lites for arguing with them and were put on the road, ARMED, before they ever went to the academy.

          Better not get out of that car without your hat on.

          Comment


          • #36
            Originally posted by tanksoldier View Post

            False. I was exactly correct. You have what I call the "snowflake mentality" wherein you believe what you want is right, and everyone else is wrong and evil. Ad hominem attacks won't get you anywhere, either with "boomers" or anyone else.

            ...and you are the one being untruthful:

            https://forum.officer.com/forum/publ...ns/182399-eyes

            The problem is, you're writing this like you're a young cop... you're not. You haven't been hired yet, you haven't worked the road, you're on the outside looking in and have no idea what you're talking about.

            ...probably, you're the kid with a less-than-perfect record who wants to be a cop now and wants his past to be ignored. Sorry, doesn't work that way.

            Even if not, wait until youy DO get hired and have some experience under your belt before you start suggesting changes.

            In the mean time, stop pretending to be a cop.
            Amen.

            He claims to be a cop, but he sure doesn't sound like it.

            His complaint about officers with $1,200 a month in vehicle payments, doesn't even make sense. My vehicle payments were about $2,000 a month, but who cares- I have been making over $50,000 a year in overtime alone. I was quite comfortably able to afford to custom-order a new Porsche convertible to use as my work commuter car, as well as letting my wife custom-order a new BMW and then flying her to Munich Germany to pick it up at the factory. We even paid them off early...
            Last edited by Aidokea; 01-31-2020, 03:01 AM.

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            • COMoparfan392
              COMoparfan392 commented
              Editing a comment
              I don't even want to imagine what it costed you to get that bimmer back to the States lol.

            • Aidokea
              Aidokea commented
              Editing a comment
              It didn't cost us anything to get her car shipped home, but it did take about 10 weeks.

              It was kind of cool that she got to take delivery of her car twice- one at the BMW Welt ("Welt" is German for "world"), and then once again at our local BMW dealer once it arrived.

              BMW, Porsche, and a few other car makers, offer European Delivery Programs. BMW's European Delivery Program is the best. You get a 7% discount on a custom-ordered car, and then they ship it back home at no additional cost. The discount on the car basically offset the cost of our airfare to fly over there to pick it up, and then while we were in Europe, we were driving her car instead of a rental car, which saved us even more money.

              I was originally going to order my Porsche as a European Delivery, but they were going to discontinue the normally-aspirated flat-6 engine that I wanted, so we had to separate my Porsche from our next Europe trip so that we could order it in time to get the engine I wanted.

              BMW does an amazing job- they picked us up at the airport in Munich in a big black long-wheelbase 7-series BMW limousine driven by a limo driver in a 3-piece suit. Once we arrived at the Welt, they put us up in the Premier Lounge, which is reserved solely for European Delivery customers. They change the menu three times a day (you'll be there all day), and you can eat and drink as much as you want. At the appointed time, the delivery consultant arrives to take you down a big dramatic flight of stairs in the center of the building, to your new car, which is slowly rotating on a giant turntable under spotlights. My wife cried. They have a professional photographer there to take delivery photos, and then you get to drive your new car on a "victory lap" around the inside of the Welt itself. European Delivery also comes with a tour of the Welt, a tour of the factory itself, a tour of the BMW museum, and a voucher to purchase the orange safety vests that you're required to carry when driving in Europe. The car itself is a U.S.-spec car, but it comes registered in Germany (with German license plates) and two weeks of insurance. When you're done, you can just drop your car off at one of any number of shipping centers scattered around Europe- we dropped my wife's car off in Frankfurt. And then when it arrives back home, your BMW dealer will have the car detailed for delivery and re-deliver the car to you at the dealership.

              For us, the best part is that her car is a souvenir of an epic month-long bucket-list trip to Europe. Every day that she drives it, it reminds her of the night I took her to dinner in the Eiffel Tower in Paris. It reminds her of how many times we got lost in Rome. It reminds her of doing Oktoberfest in Munich, in costume. It reminds her of driving over the San Bernardino Pass in the Swiss Alps. It reminds her of visiting Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati, Pagani, Ducati, and MV Agusta on our way to Venice in northern Italy. It reminds her of visiting Salzburg Austria, where "The Sound Of Music" was filmed. It reminds her of taking a horse-drawn carriage ride up to Neuschwanstein Castle, to have dessert and wine in the world's most famous castle. It reminds her of visiting Rothenburg, the famous medieval walled German city. It reminds her of touring the Mosul Valley wine region in Germany. It reminds her of maxxing out her new car against it's 155 mph speed limiter on the German Autobahns. It reminds her of visiting Porsche in Stuttgart (before we ordered my Porsche). It reminds her of driving her new Track Pack car at triple-digit speeds around the very track that the Track Pack was designed for- the world-famous Nurburgring. And it reminds her of the $860 cab ride I bought her, in a track-prepared Porsche 911 GT3 RS race taxi, driven at speeds of up to 200 mph around the Nurburgring by the most famous racing driver there, Sabine Schmitz.

              We don't have our delivery video online, but a typical European Delivery trip would look something like this:

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y05L6Cq3OlU
              Last edited by Aidokea; 01-31-2020, 01:01 PM.

          • #37
            In CA, almost every department is hurting. It’s due to a few reasons. There is a fundamental lack of interest in the job. As a millennial, I don’t have any non department/academy friends that are cops.
            Increased scrutiny also drives some away. Also housing here is too expensive. $100k average salary sounds great until you realise buying a house may cost you $800k+.

            we have some departments in my area offering $25k starting bonuses, $105k start salary and they still can’t find quality people.

            Comment


            • #38
              Where I live the police department starts at about $96K in training and goes from $131k-167K for officer with no incentives. With incentives it's nearly $187K at the top. I know a few of the officers there. They have been hiring consistently for years. Still can't get enough people. They burn through a lot of officers for various reasons. Total compensation is usually $250K-$350K. Money isn't everything.

              Comment


              • #39
                Originally posted by emtguy89 View Post
                I've been doing this for a few years, also prior EMS and corrections, and I have to say "that guy" hit the nail on the head. The mentality seems to be like what the guy in the Christian Bale movie "Equilibrium" said, "It is not the message that is important, it is our adherence to it. Call it faith" when ordering a cop to do on the spot executions of "criminals" rather than have them interrogated and stand trial. Great and underrated movie.

                Can anyone tell me why having a tattoo makes you a bad cop? Like a little tattoo of a Bible verse or a cross or your kid's names and birthdates? I don't have any, but I worked with one that had full sleeves, legs, everything but face, and he was, and still is, a great officer.

                How does a beard make you a bad cop? It has never hindered me in the slightest. I could go into all the details of how extensive research has been done to debunk the idea that people don't trust beards or they're unprofessional.

                Outer vests and tactical equipment are too scary? Well so are guns for some people. Are you gonna take our guns next?

                Just because you got on before the academy was even required doesn't make you always right. We forget that most of these types were beating the living crap out of people in the head with straight batons and mag-lites for arguing with them and were put on the road, ARMED, before they ever went to the academy.

                Better not get out of that car without your hat on.
                "That guy" is definitely NOT right...he simply took the "old school" mentality and went to the exact opposite extreme. Just as you're not always right because "that's the way it's always been done," it's also not automatically better because it's "new and different."

                I'm considered pretty "old" by LE standards (20 years on), but I believe in the simple mantra of doing "what works in the real world." Sometimes, how we've "always done it" is right and has been proven through years of hard experience. Sometimes, what's new actually IS better. One, however, isn't inherently better than the other.

                Do I care about beards? Not really,,,don't have one myself but I don't particularly care about the guys who do (besides the ones who can't seem to maintain them and look like extras for ZZ Top). Tattoos? Again, I don't have any, but I have no problem with them as long as they're not racist, inherently offensive, etc. Exterior carriers? Love em...should have been using them years ago (this is a great example of something new actually being better). Realistically, though, these are mostly perception issues and not something that inherently changes the job (besides maybe exterior carriers). I hear alot of "those guys" who whine because we do integral parts of the job in particular "old school" ways and not how they want to do them with their "extensive experience"...they're the "change for the sake of change" people who just want to whine because we're not doing things their way. That's exactly the mentality that's exuded from the OP with his "ok boomer" comments. People like that should try talking to older, street-wise cops and asking WHY we do things the way we do before he demands change...sometimes, there's a good lesson learned in blood and sweat under there.
                "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
                -Friedrich Nietzsche

                Comment


                • Aidokea
                  Aidokea commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Bingo.....

              • #40
                Why in your opinions would you say that LE has an image problem with mellinals? And how do you think LE should solve it in order to attract more mellinals?

                Comment


                • #41
                  Gotta wonder, is it just the new generations? An entire trooper academy class gets fired for cheating on a test. Is the entitlement syndrome catching up? Not everyone gets a trophy.

                  Comment


                  • Aidokea
                    Aidokea commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Amen......

                • #42
                  Originally posted by Bing_Oh View Post

                  "That guy" is definitely NOT right...he simply took the "old school" mentality and went to the exact opposite extreme. Just as you're not always right because "that's the way it's always been done," it's also not automatically better because it's "new and different."

                  I'm considered pretty "old" by LE standards (20 years on), but I believe in the simple mantra of doing "what works in the real world." Sometimes, how we've "always done it" is right and has been proven through years of hard experience. Sometimes, what's new actually IS better. One, however, isn't inherently better than the other.

                  Do I care about beards? Not really,,,don't have one myself but I don't particularly care about the guys who do (besides the ones who can't seem to maintain them and look like extras for ZZ Top). Tattoos? Again, I don't have any, but I have no problem with them as long as they're not racist, inherently offensive, etc. Exterior carriers? Love em...should have been using them years ago (this is a great example of something new actually being better). Realistically, though, these are mostly perception issues and not something that inherently changes the job (besides maybe exterior carriers). I hear alot of "those guys" who whine because we do integral parts of the job in particular "old school" ways and not how they want to do them with their "extensive experience"...they're the "change for the sake of change" people who just want to whine because we're not doing things their way. That's exactly the mentality that's exuded from the OP with his "ok boomer" comments. People like that should try talking to older, street-wise cops and asking WHY we do things the way we do before he demands change...sometimes, there's a good lesson learned in blood and sweat under there.
                  Lol, I’m inclined to think the same. The boomers and the millennials tend to forget there is an entire generation between them that hates them both.

                  Comment


                  • #43
                    As someone who has been trying to find job opening in more rural parts of the country, I think one of the reason some department are having a hard time finding applications to apply is the way they advertise their openings. A lot of departments I have asked in rural IL only post their job posting on their website, Facebook, and local papers. This puts them at a disadvantage of missing people who would be interested in apply for their agency, but don't know the agency is even testing. There are a lot of free police job posting website these department could post to that would allow people from all over the country to know they are hiring. By only posting locally they are limiting who will apply for their agency.

                    Also, I think one of the reason we are having a hard time finding applications is we keep increasing the steps and test required to get hired. In the past all you need to do was pass a fitness test and an interview and you could get hired. Now a lot of agencies do that plus a background check, credit check, polygraph, and a psych test. I believe that some of the people who would have gotten hired in the past are now being disqualified. It makes me wonder how many chiefs and senior officers wouldn't have been able to get hired if they had to through the same hiring steps recruits do now.

                    Comment


                    • #44
                      Originally posted by inventorchris View Post
                      I believe that some of the people who would have gotten hired in the past are now being disqualified. It makes me wonder how many chiefs and senior officers wouldn't have been able to get hired if they had to through the same hiring steps recruits do now.
                      Probably because those less than deserving candidates caused scandals, lawsuits, and case law and ruined it for the rest of us?
                      "It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank God that such men lived."- George S. Patton Jr.

                      Comment


                      • #45
                        It makes me wonder how many chiefs and senior officers wouldn't have been able to get hired if they had to through the same hiring steps recruits do now.

                        Probably a few. Who knows...

                        The low dirty truth is the world is a patently unfair place, and how things worked yesterday is not how they work today, and the only one true attribute we have to deal with change is the ability to adapt to it.

                        Focus on problem solving today and ignore the UTB stuff ('used to be').

                        Chance favors the prepared mind.

                        -Louis Pasteur

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