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Non-select after successful background

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  • Non-select after successful background

    I would like to ask a question. I recently received a non-select letter from a agency I applied to as a police officer.
    I went through the background investigation, and passed the polygraph. After the investigation was complete I interviewed with the background investigation supervisor. The interview went well. He said that everyone said great things about me and he would recommend me for employment. He told me to expect an asst chief interview within a couple of weeks. Instead I received a non-select letter. Do I have any recourse? Is there anything that I can do to at least get that interview?

  • #2
    Were you testing with a civil service department? (There's a reason for asking.)
    Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Gca718 View Post
      I would like to ask a question. I recently received a non-select letter from a agency I applied to as a police officer.
      I went through the background investigation, and passed the polygraph. After the investigation was complete I interviewed with the background investigation supervisor. The interview went well. He said that everyone said great things about me and he would recommend me for employment. He told me to expect an asst chief interview within a couple of weeks. Instead I received a non-select letter. Do I have any recourse? Is there anything that I can do to at least get that interview?
      Non select means they found someone else with more qualifications or someone they liked better than you.
      Plan on getting a lot of those type of letters .................It just means you are not right for that agency at this time

      Keep on applying
      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

      Comment


      • #4
        He said that everyone said great things about me and he would recommend me for employment
        Sometimes people say things to be nice but are really just trying to get you out of their office.


        Is there anything that I can do to at least get that interview?
        Sure. You can pay an attorney $1,000 to write a sternly worded letter on your behalf. You can speak harshly about getting a non-select letter during the public comments section at the next city council meeting. You can organize a protest march for you and anyone else that's ever been non-selected. You can complain here at the O.com about it until the tips of your fingers bleed.

        Or you can Cowboy Up and move on.


        When you're 20 you care what everyone thinks, when you're 40 you stop caring what everyone thinks, when you're 60 you realize no one was ever thinking about you in the first place.

        -Winston Churchill

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post

          Sometimes people say things to be nice but are really just trying to get you out of their office.




          Sure. You can pay an attorney $1,000 to write a sternly worded letter on your behalf. You can speak harshly about getting a non-select letter during the public comments section at the next city council meeting. You can organize a protest march for you and anyone else that's ever been non-selected. You can complain here at the O.com about it until the tips of your fingers bleed.

          Or you can Cowboy Up and move on.

          You forgot about how your name will get around the VERY small community of Law Enforcement as "That guy"

          You DON'T want to EVER be known as "THAT GUY"
          Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

          My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks. I’m just asking the question. I wouldn’t do any of those things. I thought that at this point, everyone who would be cut had already been cut. I’ve just been trying to process it in in my head and was hoping there was a chance to be reconsidered. It’s been a year long process and it seemed by all accounts I was in. After 20 plus years of military service, waiting another year is a bigger deal than it would’ve been when I was 25. I hadn’t thought that at this point I could be non-selected. Maybe I just didn’t make the final cut for the academy seats. I’m not here to complain just looking for insight from people with experience.

            Comment


            • #7
              Could be end of year budget issues. Could be someone they thought was going to retire changed their mind. Could be your neighbor- the one you've had words with before about his dogs crapping in your yard- works there and piped in with his opinion. Could be a hundred other scenarios.


              The only way you'll know what really happened is someone on the inside tells you what the circumstances are. HR usually won't divulge the real story if you ask.

              And they could circle back in six months and ask if you're still available as a position just opened, but best move would be to formulate a new plan and start taking steps.

              Doors open, doors close.
              When you're 20 you care what everyone thinks, when you're 40 you stop caring what everyone thinks, when you're 60 you realize no one was ever thinking about you in the first place.

              -Winston Churchill

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gca718 View Post
                I would like to ask a question. I recently received a non-select letter from a agency I applied to as a police officer.
                I went through the background investigation, and passed the polygraph. After the investigation was complete I interviewed with the background investigation supervisor. The interview went well. He said that everyone said great things about me and he would recommend me for employment. He told me to expect an asst chief interview within a couple of weeks. Instead I received a non-select letter. Do I have any recourse? Is there anything that I can do to at least get that interview?
                Recourse in terms of appeal? No; they made their decision.

                While as an applicant it’s a hard pill to swollow, passing all of the pre-employment screening phases does not equate to guaranteed job offer. There is a distinct difference between “being cut” or “disqualified” by one of the screening phases, and being among the “best qualified” applicants that ultimately get a job offer for the open positions available to hire.

                The fact you passed all the screening phases evidences you’re a solid candidate, you can apply again with that agency if you wish, and that you’d likely ultimately get hired by some LE agency - it does not, however, mean that this agency has to hire you or that you should appeal their decision (as trying to do so would likely leave a bad taste for you in the mouth of that agency’s hiring managers).

                Accept this with humility and maturity and press on with other applications.
                Last edited by Kimble; 10-14-2018, 02:53 PM.
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                • #9
                  As Ratatatat said, some people will tell you anything to get you out of their office.

                  Earlier I asked if you applied to a civil service department and you chose not to answer. OK. If it was a civil service agency, you were disqualified. The "non-select" letter (we elected to go with a more qualified candidate) is a polite way of saying they went with someone who was not DQed and thus, they were "more qualified".

                  Stop and think about this for a minute. You achieved certain scores on your civil service test. Civil service law says applicants will be hired in the order of their scores (highest first, next highest second, etc.) It allows them to hire those with higher scores first, but once they've done that, there are no applicants who are more qualified than you unless you got DQed on the background, medical or psych.

                  In this touchy feely world, people don't like getting their egos crushed. In addition, departments would prefer to avoid having to fight civlil service appeals, so softly worded letters are sent out that sugarcoat a DQ. I suspect that's what you got.

                  OTOH, if you applied at an "At Will" agency, you serve at the pleasure of the appointing authority. This the akin to a political appointment. There are no rules or appeals.

                  Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gca718 View Post
                    Thanks. I’m just asking the question. I wouldn’t do any of those things. I thought that at this point, everyone who would be cut had already been cut. I’ve just been trying to process it in in my head and was hoping there was a chance to be reconsidered. It’s been a year long process and it seemed by all accounts I was in. After 20 plus years of military service, waiting another year is a bigger deal than it would’ve been when I was 25. I hadn’t thought that at this point I could be non-selected. Maybe I just didn’t make the final cut for the academy seats. I’m not here to complain just looking for insight from people with experience.
                    It really all comes down to how many openings they're trying to fill right now...and how many applicants meet all the criteria they're looking for. If there's one position and 20 applicants who pass all the hiring steps with flying colors...then 19 perfectly good candidates are going to be disappointed. I can't tell you how many promising candidates my agency has had to turn down over the years simply because we didn't have enough openings. It sucks for us AND for the applicants...but guess what? The really exceptional ones keep applying...and another agency is going to scoop them up eventually.

                    I know it's frustrating...but you're still in a much better position than someone who's been DQed. Best of luck with the next hiring process!

                    Added for clarification: My department is NOT a civil service agency. For us, a "non-select" is VERY different from a disqualification. To put it in simple terms...if you were disqualified, we don't want to hire you (for any number of reasons, usually background issues). If you were non-selected, we'd be happy to hire you, but don't have enough openings.
                    Last edited by not.in.MY.town; 10-14-2018, 03:22 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If this non-selection is really gnawing at you, I'm just going to throw this out there: what harm would it do to write a polite letter asking what you can do to make yourself more competitive in the event of future hirings??

                      I say this because I wrote such a letter once and received a helpful response in return. It was many many years ago, and I was testing with a college town PD in Idaho that has the same name as the capitol of Russia. I made it to the top ten list (two openings). I was really interested in the job and crushed when the non-selection notice arrived in the mail. So I wrote the chief a respectful letter (this was pre-internet and that's how people communicated back then), thanking him for the opportunity and asking what I could do to be a more competitive applicant. Two weeks later, a two-page letter from the chief arrived with several valid suggestions and an explanation why others were hired: more experience.

                      Anyways, I don't think such a letter would put you in the "That Guy" category and may answer what happened as well as provide suggestions. PLUS: it could also plant a seed that you really, truly were interested in working there, which could pay off down the road.

                      I defer to any contrary opinions. And if it's a big agency with hundreds or thousands officers-- well, you can disregard this advice.
                      When you're 20 you care what everyone thinks, when you're 40 you stop caring what everyone thinks, when you're 60 you realize no one was ever thinking about you in the first place.

                      -Winston Churchill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ratatatat is correct. I won't hurt to write. Point out that you need to know because if there was an error in your background, you would like the opportunity to correct the misunderstanding. OTOH, if there if there is something in your personal history that meets the criteria for disqualification, you need to know that as well, so you can make changes in your life to ensure you are able to be employed in the future.
                        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gca718 View Post
                          Thanks. I’m just asking the question. I wouldn’t do any of those things. I thought that at this point, everyone who would be cut had already been cut. I’ve just been trying to process it in in my head and was hoping there was a chance to be reconsidered. It’s been a year long process and it seemed by all accounts I was in. After 20 plus years of military service, waiting another year is a bigger deal than it would’ve been when I was 25. I hadn’t thought that at this point I could be non-selected. Maybe I just didn’t make the final cut for the academy seats. I’m not here to complain just looking for insight from people with experience.
                          20 yrs of military service means absolutely nothing in the hiring of police officers.

                          There are two different skill sets and two different qualification factors .

                          The only real similarity between LE and military is they both have a rank structure

                          Originally posted by not.in.MY.town View Post


                          Added for clarification: My department is NOT a civil service agency. For us, a "non-select" is VERY different from a disqualification. To put it in simple terms...if you were disqualified, we don't want to hire you (for any number of reasons, usually background issues). If you were non-selected, we'd be happy to hire you, but don't have enough openings.
                          My agency in Iowa IS a civil service agency..................and a NON SELECT is very very different from a DISQUALIFICATION also

                          Disqualification means you don't meet the qualifications to get hired.
                          You can still pass the civil service test and get on the "qualified" list but still be so low on the list that you will not be hired on this list THEN you would get the NON SELECT letter. It always tells you that you can re apply at the next testing date.

                          Even if you are high enough on the hiring list but a "better" candidate gets the job you will be disappointed that YOU didn't get hired

                          Originally posted by Ratatatat View Post

                          Anyways, I don't think such a letter would put you in the "That Guy" category and may answer what happened as well as provide suggestions. PLUS: it could also plant a seed that you really, truly were interested in working there, which could pay off down the road.

                          .
                          Yep that is NOT a THAT GUY move.............................
                          Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                          My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post

                            20 yrs of military service means absolutely nothing in the hiring of police officers.

                            There are two different skill sets and two different qualification factors .

                            The only real similarity between LE and military is they both have a rank structure


                            My agency in Iowa IS a civil service agency..................and a NON SELECT is very very different from a DISQUALIFICATION also

                            Disqualification means you don't meet the qualifications to get hired.
                            You can still pass the civil service test and get on the "qualified" list but still be so low on the list that you will not be hired on this list THEN you would get the NON SELECT letter. It always tells you that you can re apply at the next testing date.

                            Even if you are high enough on the hiring list but a "better" candidate gets the job you will be disappointed that YOU didn't get hired



                            Yep that is NOT a THAT GUY move.............................
                            Well...it could not BE a THAT GUY move, but it could be a THAT guy or that GUY, or even a that guy move...or not.
                            Now go home and get your shine box!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post

                              .
                              You can still pass the civil service test and get on the "qualified" list but still be so low on the list that you will not be hired on this list THEN you would get the NON SELECT letter. It always tells you that you can re apply at the next testing date.

                              Even if you are high enough on the hiring list but a "better" candidate gets the job you will be disappointed that YOU didn't get hired
                              Now I'm confused. When this happens, do you send everyone remaining on the list a letter, throw the list out and hold a new test to fill the next vacancies? Seems costly with regard to postage and testing.

                              When we fill our vacancies we take the number needed from the list in score order. Those that are "not selected" as you define it, remain on the list and continue to be considered for future vacancies until the list expires, which is an honorable outcome. They hear nothing more until their score is reached and they are processed. When the list dies, it is a quiet death and no one has any inkling of its passing until the exam announcement comes out offering a new test.

                              We always tell folks who are permanently DQed they can reapply, because there is no legal authority in my state to bar someone from taking a civil service exam. Of course, they will be DQed all over again because of their disqualifying personal history, but they will have been allowed to participate in the exam process, as is their right.
                              Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                              Comment

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