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  • Poly Question for DetectorAZ...

    I took a poly a couple of days ago. My 3rd poly overall. I passed my previous 2. Anyways, this is my story. The poly examiner stated I showed a very high level of deceit in 1 question. "Have you withheld any information during this background investigation" If those aren't the exact words it was something very similiar. Examiner stated that the scale was a 9.9 out of a possible 10 as far as deception. So afterwards he seemed very agitated with me and pressed me if I was telling him everything that we went over in the background and past history packet. I told him I have told him everything I can remember. I'm 31 Years old and the negative things I've done in my life occurred 10 to 10+years ago. I disclosed everything I have every done (fighting,theft,marijuana usage, arrest, cheating). I disclosed every residence, job, ticket, collections history, etc etc, detail that was asked to the best of knowledge.

    I told him and I also told the last examiner that gave me a poly test a couple years ago that when I hear that question I doubt myself because I might have forgotten small dumb things I might have done when I was a teenager in High School or College that I did not disclose in the packet. So I feel guilty.

    I guess my question is if I did not show any signs of deceit in the other specific questions involving drug use, theft, undetected crimes, sex with underage person, etc then how could I show a very high level of deception in probably the most broad question asked during the examine?

    The examiner said that he had to discuss my results with my background investigator and they would get back to me. So right now I look at this as I failed the test and I'm going to get DQ'ed. I was just as truthful during this examine as I was in the past 2 that I passed.

    Thanks for time!

  • #2
    "The poly examiner stated I showed a very high level of deceit in 1 question. "Have you withheld any information during this background investigation" If those aren't the exact words it was something very similiar. Examiner stated that the scale was a 9.9 out of a possible 10 as far as deception. So afterwards he seemed very agitated with me and pressed me if I was telling him everything that we went over in the background and past history packet"


    I really don't have an answer for you. My question would be how did he explain what that question really means to you prior to the test. We explain our questions to avoid them being so vague. If you don't fully understand what he is asking, you will show a reaction as a result of mind processes after giving an answer. Questioning your own answer with "Did I, or maybe I missed something". He evidentaly showed you a computer printout that is a scoring done by computer and you got a 9.9 probability of deception.

    I would ask for a retest and explain to your BI what occurred. Don't be afraid to ask the examiner for an explination of any question that causes you to doubt your answer or question your answer. Make sure you understand exactly what is being asked and make sure you are 100% honest in your answer to the question. Trained, experienced examiners will answer your question and appreciate your clarifying any question that causes you to question yourself. Makes the process a bit longer, however makes the charts much easier to score/qualify/quantify etc.

    Just a side thought here in this edit, I missed the part where you said you were not sure of your answer, that will cause the reaction the examienr talked about, but it sounds like he did not have you centered mentally on what that question means. I explain that the question means INTENTIONALLY OMITING information or INTENTIONALLY LYING about information on that form, I make sure you understand that incidents you don't really remember probably are not at all important then I reword the question and insert "Intentionally" as a qualifier on the question. Sorry this occurred to you and hope it gets corrected for you, best of luck in your quest. If you don't make it there, let me know, we are always looking for good applicants and would appreciate the opportunity to afford you the dream of your life, a LEO career.
    Last edited by DetectorAz; 04-05-2007, 05:17 PM.
    Honesty Pays, Dishonesty Costs, ARE YOU IN DEBT

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    • #3
      is it common to be given more than one poly during the hiring process?

      Comment


      • #4
        Depends on the Ageny Policy. If you explain your reason for not passing the odds are you will be tested again and the question you had problems with will be narrowed down (made more specific and asked more than once). Just depends on the agency policy.
        Honesty Pays, Dishonesty Costs, ARE YOU IN DEBT

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for your feedback DetectorAZ!

          I have not heard anything yet from my background Investigator. I'm hoping for the best but expecting the worst. I'm really should have expressed my concerns with that broad question beforehand and maybe I would not be in this situation.

          I wish I could relocate to a different state to obtain a LEO career but that is not a option with a wife,2 small children, nice home and the comfort of living in a quiet community with many friends and family around. With the Civil Service process in NY State it is very competitive and sometimes I find it too political to land a LEO job in a good department. No way my wife would want to move out of state or even out of the area we currently live in because most of her entire family live in this area.

          I've been in the private Retail Loss Prevention field for the past 8 years. The last 6 years with a very thriving Supermarket Company ranked in the Top 10 as best companies to work for the past 5 years. I'm currently being offered a Loss Prevention Management position for the company I currently work for in their new markets in Virginia and Maryland area but it's highly unlikely I will be able to accept that promotion because of my wife's refusal to move out of state. I enjoy my career in Loss Prevention and have excelled at it over the years but I find it unchallenging the past couple of years. I would be taking a 14K a year pay cut to make the change from my current job to a starting salary at this City Police department I'm processing with right now.

          After college I got into Loss Prevention as a stepping stone to a LEO career but 8 years later I'm not there yet. My older brother and many friends are police officers in the area and I know I'm just as capable if not better than them to do the job. All I want is an opportunity to get my foot in the door. I guess not achieving my dream of a LEO career yet would not be so difficult to cope with if I did not interact on a daily basis with Police officers and Investigators while doing my duties in the Loss Prevention field. Sometimes I come across a officer and I have to scratch my head and wonder how this man or woman got hired and I'm still trying! That's the hard part!

          Thanks for your time!

          Comment


          • #6
            I fully understand and do have one more option you may wish to look at, with your current employer request the opportunity to go to Polygraph Examiners School at their cost, then explore working for LEO in the capacity of polygraph examiner and police officer. It appears you are more adept at investigation, interview and interrogation rather than traffic citations, domestiv violence etc. You can accomplish both goals and your wages would be very good also. I have experience in both street experience and investigation, then on top, got the polygraph and my wages increased as did my opportunities in areas I desired to be in. Just a thought.
            Honesty Pays, Dishonesty Costs, ARE YOU IN DEBT

            Comment


            • #7
              I have a question for you DetectorAZ; I know that every department is different, but say I react to a certain question on my first polygraph, but then they give me a second chance and I react to a different question and I don't change any of my answers, would that be taken into account? Or is a fail a fail based on your department and or past experiences?

              Comment


              • #8
                Cris,

                I cannot answer your question with anything simple. Should you show reaction to one question on one exam and another question on another examination, it would idicated there is greater concern on the second exam to the question you reacted to. I really don't understand why you would ask such a question. Either case would indicate there was a problem with your answer to the questions. Hope that answers
                Honesty Pays, Dishonesty Costs, ARE YOU IN DEBT

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DetectorAz
                  Cris,

                  I cannot answer your question with anything simple. Should you show reaction to one question on one exam and another question on another examination, it would idicated there is greater concern on the second exam to the question you reacted to. I really don't understand why you would ask such a question. Either case would indicate there was a problem with your answer to the questions. Hope that answers
                  The reason I ask is because on my Polygraph examination, I was told I failed because I reacted to "illegal sex". I know I didn't lie and I know people that say "well how can you believe him, he failed a polygraph!". I hate lying and if there is one thing I hate more, it's being called a liar. I think there were a few reasons why I reacted, and I know it had nothing to do with the question of "illegal sex". I found it pretty funny that of all the questions, it just had to be that one. It's only logical to think that "hey if he answered every question the same on every test, yet reacted to a different question every test, maybe there is a problem other than lying?". In my situation, I was very uncomfortable because I was not allowed to swallow or breathe through my mouth for what seemed to be forever while the test was being administered. Hope that clarifies my questions and I apreciate your time.

                  Edit: Thinking back, I wasn't even thinking of the questions, I was trying to not swallow or move more than anything else.
                  Last edited by chrisfnrb7; 04-08-2007, 10:11 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by chrisfnrb7
                    It's only logical to think that "hey if he answered every question the same on every test, yet reacted to a different question every test, maybe there is a problem other than lying?"
                    It is logical to think that.

                    Out of my four polygraph tests I failed the first three, each one for a different reason. On each of the first three I "reacted" to a different question, never the same question twice. I was telling the truth on all four polygraphs.

                    It would be logical to believe that if I "reacted" to questions about buying or selling drugs on the first test that I would have some reaction on subsequent tests. It might be even be reasonable to believe I would have an even greater reaction on subsequent tests, since I would be aware the drug-related questions caused me to fail my first polygraph. Oddly enough, I never again "reacted" to any questions about drugs.
                    Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Your last post answered a number of questions I had. If you were only allowed to breath through your mouth and told not to swallow, I can understand why your polygraph charts would show reactions.

                      The examiner evidentaly does not understand that some persons breath through both the nose and mouth, others only fhrough the nose. This would cause you to have problems, you should be able to breath normally for your test to be conducted properly.

                      Swallowing is normal, and I would expect examinees to be able to swallow if necessary, otherwise you have a mouth full of liquid and again it causes problems.

                      Sorry this happened to you and hope you get an examiner next time that realizes what is normal for you may be abnormal for others. I have seen other posts where the examinee was told to breath through his nose, and he had sinus problems, created a problem for him also.

                      I am sure this does cause persons to fail a polygraph, they are so focused on breathing, swallowing and other physical activities they do not even think of the questions they are answering. That indicates the examiner did not conduct the exam properly.
                      Honesty Pays, Dishonesty Costs, ARE YOU IN DEBT

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DetectorAz
                        Your last post answered a number of questions I had. If you were only allowed to breath through your mouth and told not to swallow, I can understand why your polygraph charts would show reactions.

                        The examiner evidentaly does not understand that some persons breath through both the nose and mouth, others only fhrough the nose. This would cause you to have problems, you should be able to breath normally for your test to be conducted properly.

                        Swallowing is normal, and I would expect examinees to be able to swallow if necessary, otherwise you have a mouth full of liquid and again it causes problems.

                        Sorry this happened to you and hope you get an examiner next time that realizes what is normal for you may be abnormal for others. I have seen other posts where the examinee was told to breath through his nose, and he had sinus problems, created a problem for him also.

                        I am sure this does cause persons to fail a polygraph, they are so focused on breathing, swallowing and other physical activities they do not even think of the questions they are answering. That indicates the examiner did not conduct the exam properly.
                        Well that is a relief knowing that every examiner is different, so I might not be so uncomfortable or nervous on my next exam. I do feel somewhat distrust of the polygraph having experienced personally failing it when I was being completely truthful. I am not against it being administered, what I am against is it being a factor for disqualification. I think it should simply point the background investigation in a certain direction. Well enough of that, but I thank you for your expert opinion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mobrien316
                          It is logical to think that.

                          Out of my four polygraph tests I failed the first three, each one for a different reason. On each of the first three I "reacted" to a different question, never the same question twice. I was telling the truth on all four polygraphs.

                          It would be logical to believe that if I "reacted" to questions about buying or selling drugs on the first test that I would have some reaction on subsequent tests. It might be even be reasonable to believe I would have an even greater reaction on subsequent tests, since I would be aware the drug-related questions caused me to fail my first polygraph. Oddly enough, I never again "reacted" to any questions about drugs.
                          Was your situation similar to mine? Discomfort? I wonder if that will be my same problem. I certainly hope not.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by chrisfnrb7
                            Was your situation similar to mine? Discomfort? I wonder if that will be my same problem. I certainly hope not.
                            No, I don't recall being uncomfortable at all. I went into my first polygraph with confidence because I knew I didn't have anything to hide and I knew I was planning on telling the truth. I thought that would be all that was necessary to pass the polygraph.

                            The only time I became uncomfortable was when the examiner told me he could tell I was lying when I knew I wasn't. At that point in my life I had never heard a bad word about the polygraph and was utterly baffled as to how this sort of a mistake could be made.
                            Cogito ergo summopere periculosus.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sgt. Obrien,

                              I don't doubt that you are being truthful regarding your personal experience with polygraph. And of course I apolagize for your being subjected to being called a liar prior to the polygraph examination being conducted according to other posts you have made.

                              With your intelectual capacity being as high as it appears, do you think you may have been sensitized to the questions prior to the examination, therefore reacted as a result of cognitavie disonnace due to synsitation?

                              That would not make polygraph bad, it would indicate that the examiner was not using proper procedures and should be "called on the carpet" for his improper actions.

                              I have watched your posts on several threads, it appears that you copy and paste segments from several anti sites on polygraph. Your research seems to be from those sites and would then be very tainted with anti literature. Have you looked at the latest studies conducted by prominent PHD's? Maybe you need some balance on this topic. I will not attempt to educate you, you are on a different level than I, and I see no point in arguments with anyone.
                              Last edited by DetectorAz; 04-10-2007, 07:43 AM.
                              Honesty Pays, Dishonesty Costs, ARE YOU IN DEBT

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