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  • #31
    Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post





    Okay. Let me start off by saying I am not a cop currently, I was a reserve officer previously many years ago... So I am not attempting to answer any questions in the "Ask a Cop" section. This is really a followup question to this thread. This gentleman's post has raised some questions regarding the pre-employment polygraph process.

    My understanding of the polygraph is that is an investigative tool and or interrogation tool to garner admissions, and to investigate red flags for the background progress. My question is how did this gentleman get a conditional offer of employment pending a polygraph. Wouldn't his background investigation uncovered any disqualifying information well before the polygraph? Or does this gentleman keep throwing deceptive indicators while testing and that is causing him to fail? Or is he choosing the wrong time, meaning wait till before I'm hooked up, to be forth coming with admissions omitted from his application that wouldn't have been uncovered during a background investigation. Or is it just what he is admitting in his background?

    I have known several people apply for state patrol and told their polygraph read deceptive in areas, only to eventually get hired. Of course, they said they were honest throughout the whole process and did not make any additional admissions during their pre-polygraph interview. They told me to be an open book but don't sweat the test as there is no such thing as a "lie detector", that it opens the door for further investigation and inquiries. And that everyone throws a blip on one or two questions as it measures uncontrollable psychological responses.

    This gentleman has made me nervous for my polygraph screening. I am an open and honest individual and this guy concerns me that even with my general clean background that I will also fail a polygraph like he did. The only thing in my background was I was fired from a job 11 years ago for performance reasons, not for gross misconduct, just didn't hit required performance numbers. This caused a bankruptcy from 9 years ago. Since then I have established a solid work history working in IT, and my credit is sparkling with all three scores around 720. I have never done drugs, nor do I drink alcohol.. The last drink I had was 9 1/2 years ago. The only other thing in my background was I stole baseball cards one time as a kid. I am married man with three kids, and I decided to give my dream of being a state trooper a shot before I hit the age cutoff in 2 years... I wasn't nervous for any part of the process till I read this thread..And I am now concerned while being forthcoming that my dream will be shattered. Or perhaps I am just misunderstanding this situation and the process.

    Feedback is appreciated.. And I appreciate each and every one of you and your individual contributions to your communities, and I hope to join the thin blue line soon.

    Thank you!
    #1 many agencies don't polygraph---some polygraph as one of the first steps some as the last and some don't at all
    Some agencies use the polygraph in different ways

    #2 Background Investigative processes vary greatly from agency to agency----

    #3 You can"what if " and "why didn't" all you want but the fact is everything we say is subject to the processes that are in effect for whatever agency the poster is applying to. We give general answers based on our experience and agencies.

    #4 There are a lot of people who have been hired at various agencies that don't belong in the profession. They usually end up making the news at some point in their careers when the agency hires them against commonly accepted practices.

    #5 Some places actually send everyone through every step no matter what.............THEN the reports are sent to a decision maker rather than DQ steps at each station

    #6 This guy has a host of problems that have nothing to do with his polygraph....except they might be the cause of the failures

    FINALLY ---- I am one of the people who actually believe in the polygraph process. A proper examiner using proper techniques will probably NOT set someone up for failure. There is a reason for that. Most agencies allow for retests or "2nd chances" and / or have a review /appeals process as a just in case


    But most of all I believe is someone fails a polygraph MULTIPLE times----"Houston, We have a problem"[/QUOTE]




    Thank you Iowa..

    With all that being said. I applied for a few agencies over 9 years ago, but I think my job loss and bankruptcy was too recent and I was non selected. I was never subjected to a polygraph, the agencies I applied at never required them as part of the process. I have nothing to hide, but I am just nervous because I have never taken one. I did make it through the background at one agency and to the final interview. I failed one physical, and wasn't invited to test at a couple others as they hired laterals from other agencies with several years experience.

    What do you think of my personal background that I listed above? Has enough time elapsed from my short comings to be a viable candidate for an agency now>?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by f_x_ View Post
      .......Are you really a cop? You have really bad people skills. Maybe it’s because you’re on the internet and are behind the shroud of anonymity, but you have a really rotten attitude......

      Honesty is not an attitude its a way of life. Its clear that you want to try and save some sliver of hope you can be hired from the answers you receive. He and others have done you a FAVOR by being blunt, direct and honest about your chances. You (and so many other hopefuls who come here) take those answers as rude, crude, or insulting. Well they are not and you are trying to avoid the reality of your situation.

      You will not be hired.
      Last edited by Langford PR; 02-11-2017, 08:13 PM. Reason: meh
      Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
      “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

      Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
      “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

      George Washington, (1732-1799)
      "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

      Originally posted by Country_Jim
      ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Patsfan83 View Post


        With all that being said. I applied for a few agencies over 9 years ago, but I think my job loss and bankruptcy was too recent and I was non selected. I was never subjected to a polygraph, the agencies I applied at never required them as part of the process. I have nothing to hide, but I am just nervous because I have never taken one. I did make it through the background at one agency and to the final interview. I failed one physical, and wasn't invited to test at a couple others as they hired laterals from other agencies with several years experience.

        What do you think of my personal background that I listed above? Has enough time elapsed from my short comings to be a viable candidate for an agency now>?
        I don't see anything that slaps me in the face -------------------but of course I have only seen one side of the coin


        When I took my first poly I was scared ****less...................the examiner quickly calmed me down

        THEN he put me on the machine and I spiked the graph..........It took him a few questions to even me out and get me through the test.

        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

        (F*** Off Cuz Ur Stupid)

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by beachcop05 View Post


          Not with failing five polygraphs and being deceptive. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE.

          There are literally thousands of other applicants out there that departments can choose from, applicants who HAVE NOT FAILED five polygraphs and who are not deceptive.
          I never said I failed 5 polygraphs. I have failed 2. In fact, the first poly I ‘failed’ was a two part. I was undetermined for the first one, so they had me re-take it. I passed the second go-round. The detective said the first detective would have to agree with her decision to give me an ultimate pass/fail. I never got a call back, so I chalk that up as a fail. Second poly I just failed failed, and the reason was pretty whack. A few quick phone calls could have cleared it up, but I understand departments have many candidates to choose from and would rather not really spend extra time on any one person.

          That being said a police officer I had a lot of interactions with during my security guard stint told me he failed 5 polygraphs before being hired, so I am guessing it is possible, although; unlikely.

          Originally posted by Langford PR View Post


          Honesty is not an attitude its a way of life. Its clear that you want to try and save some sliver of hope you can be hired from the answers you receive. He and others have done you a FAVOR by being blunt, direct and honest about your chances. You (and so many other hopefuls who come here) take those answers as rude, crude, or insulting. Well they are not and you are trying to avoid the reality of your situation.

          You will not be hired.
          I don’t get it? A way of life. My old platoon sergeant and best friend is a Sheriff’s deputy and his ‘way of life’ doesn’t include being cynical and rude to everyone.

          I did 7 years as an infantryman. There’s no need to sugarcoat anything with me, but when someone is actively responding in a manner that would elicit an angered response I will say something.Many others posted blunt replies, but in a different manner and I had zero issues with it.

          Yes I am holding on to a sliver of hope, because what else is there? So, I should give up because a bunch of people on the internet said so? No. I will continue trying because even if I never get in I won’t have quit trying. What’s the worst that could happen if I kept trying? I waste my time? So what.

          What can I say? I’m an optimist.

          Comment


          • #35
            Just because you were a grunt, doesn't mean you can be a cop. I highly doubt your new version that it was a "cop friend" now who failed five times.

            You are FoS. Security seems right up your alley.

            The good part? All your posts are discoverable by a BI.
            Now go home and get your shine box!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by f_x_ View Post

              I never said I failed 5 polygraphs. I have failed 2. In fact, the first poly I ‘failed’ was a two part. I was undetermined for the first one, so they had me re-take it. I passed the second go-round. The detective said the first detective would have to agree with her decision to give me an ultimate pass/fail. I never got a call back, so I chalk that up as a fail. Second poly I just failed failed, and the reason was pretty whack. A few quick phone calls could have cleared it up, but I understand departments have many candidates to choose from and would rather not really spend extra time on any one person.

              That being said a police officer I had a lot of interactions with during my security guard stint told me he failed 5 polygraphs before being hired, so I am guessing it is possible, although; unlikely.



              I don’t get it? A way of life. My old platoon sergeant and best friend is a Sheriff’s deputy and his ‘way of life’ doesn’t include being cynical and rude to everyone.

              I did 7 years as an infantryman. There’s no need to sugarcoat anything with me, but when someone is actively responding in a manner that would elicit an angered response I will say something.Many others posted blunt replies, but in a different manner and I had zero issues with it.

              Yes I am holding on to a sliver of hope, because what else is there? So, I should give up because a bunch of people on the internet said so? No. I will continue trying because even if I never get in I won’t have quit trying. What’s the worst that could happen if I kept trying? I waste my time? So what.

              What can I say? I’m an optimist.
              Saved for the BI.
              Now go home and get your shine box!

              Comment


              • #37
                F_X,

                Switch places with the officers in charge of hiring you. On your desk is someone's background report. The finding is that the candidate has some good points, but there are some areas of concern: He has taken two polygraphs, one was inconclusive and one was a failure. Okay, that got your attention, but right now, it's not a huge deal, we'll come back to that. Everything else looks okay...then there's this other thing; on the last department he applied for, he blatantly lied on a document that he signed and had notarized, (which, by the way, is in and of itself a crime), claiming that he had never before taken any polygraphs. Now you have to ask yourself this: In a job that is all about integrity, and knowing nothing else about this candidate, what could possibly be so incredibly wonderful about this guy that you would overlook such dishonesty and hire him over someone without this baggage?
                Last edited by GangGreen712; 02-13-2017, 12:41 AM. Reason: grammar
                "If the police have to come get you, they're bringing an @$$ kicking with them!"
                -Chris Rock

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by GangGreen712 View Post
                  Now you have to ask yourself this: In a job that is all about integrity, and knowing nothing else about this candidate, what could possibly so incredibly wonderful about this guy that you would overlook such dishonesty and hire him over someone without this baggage?
                  For me this is what it all comes down to. If you will lie to get the job, you will lie to keep it & you will lie to appear successful at it.
                  In God We Trust
                  Everyone else we run local and NCIC

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by GangGreen712 View Post
                    F_X,

                    Switch places with the officers in charge of hiring you. On your desk is someone's background report. The finding is that the candidate has some good points, but there are some areas of concern: He has taken two polygraphs, one was inconclusive and one was a failure. Okay, that got your attention, but right now, it's not a huge deal, we'll come back to that. Everything else looks okay...then there's this other thing; on the last department he applied for, he blatantly lied on a document that he signed and had notarized, (which, by the way, is in and of itself a crime), claiming that he had never before taken any polygraphs. Now you have to ask yourself this: In a job that is all about integrity, and knowing nothing else about this candidate, what could possibly be so incredibly wonderful about this guy that you would overlook such dishonesty and hire him over someone without this baggage?
                    +1

                    Originally posted by Lady Blue View Post

                    For me this is what it all comes down to. If you will lie to get the job, you will lie to keep it & you will lie to appear successful at it.

                    +1


                    Precisely this guys problem! He refuses to see himself through any eyes but his own and for the failings he does see he's willing to fudge over.
                    Harry S. Truman, (1884-1972)
                    “Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.”

                    Capt. E.J. Land USMC,
                    “Just remember – life is hard. But it’s one hell of a lot harder if you’re stupid.

                    George Washington, (1732-1799)
                    "I hope I shall possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of all titles, the character of an honest man."

                    Originally posted by Country_Jim
                    ... Thus far, I am rooting for the zombies.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by f_x_ View Post



                      That being said a police officer I had a lot of interactions with during my security guard stint told me he failed 5 polygraphs before being hired, so I am guessing it is possible, although; unlikely.
                      There is a big problem with looking at what "someone else did" or "how someone else got hired" .

                      There was a time when cops were hired because they were big and mean. There were times when felons could be cops.

                      You have no idea what happened with the above officer. You don't know what the laws/procedures were when he was hired. TODAY's climate is much different than it was even 5 yrs ago

                      Law Enforcement administrators are much less likely to take chances on "the perfect hire (except)" than they were a few yrs ago. No one wants to be the one that ok'ed the hire that 5 yrs down the line becomes the next Drew Peterson

                      Your big problem is going to be that you lied on an application.............THAT is going to be fatal

                      Please google and read Brady v. Maryland, 373 U.S. 83 (1963)

                      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                      (F*** Off Cuz Ur Stupid)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
                        Just because you were a grunt, doesn't mean you can be a cop. I highly doubt your new version that it was a "cop friend" now who failed five times.

                        You are FoS. Security seems right up your alley.

                        The good part? All your posts are discoverable by a BI.
                        New version? I don't think you are understanding what I'm writing. Why would I mind if a BI saw my posts? I haven't said anything that I wouldn't tell him/her myself.

                        Originally posted by GangGreen712 View Post
                        F_X,

                        Switch places with the officers in charge of hiring you. On your desk is someone's background report. The finding is that the candidate has some good points, but there are some areas of concern: He has taken two polygraphs, one was inconclusive and one was a failure. Okay, that got your attention, but right now, it's not a huge deal, we'll come back to that. Everything else looks okay...then there's this other thing; on the last department he applied for, he blatantly lied on a document that he signed and had notarized, (which, by the way, is in and of itself a crime), claiming that he had never before taken any polygraphs. Now you have to ask yourself this: In a job that is all about integrity, and knowing nothing else about this candidate, what could possibly be so incredibly wonderful about this guy that you would overlook such dishonesty and hire him over someone without this baggage?
                        Absolutely. You have a great point. I have often thought about what a BI would think when looking at me. I understand that I have a near zero chance of being hired after lying. I am just hoping that putting time between what I have done helps.

                        Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post

                        There is a big problem with looking at what "someone else did" or "how someone else got hired" .

                        There was a time when cops were hired because they were big and mean. There were times when felons could be cops.

                        You have no idea what happened with the above officer. You don't know what the laws/procedures were when he was hired. TODAY's climate is much different than it was even 5 yrs ago

                        Law Enforcement administrators are much less likely to take chances on "the perfect hire (except)" than they were a few yrs ago. No one wants to be the one that ok'ed the hire that 5 yrs down the line becomes the next Drew Peterson

                        Your big problem is going to be that you lied on an application.............THAT is going to be fatal

                        Please google and read Brady v. Maryland, 373 U.S. 83 (1963)
                        I see your point. I don't know that Officer's circumstances, or what the requirements were when the decision was made to hire him.
                        Yeah I messed up when I lied. Might kill any chances I got, but I have to keep trying. Maybe 10 years from now when I have shown that I have what it takes to be a Police Officer (including honesty) a department will give me a chance.
                        I'll check it out, thanks for the input.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          10 years a lot of time to waste. Best of luck to you.
                          I see dumb people in the mirror.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by f_x_ View Post

                            Well maybe MP for life then. I'll keep trying. Maybe an agency desperate enough will give me a shot. Can't go to the grave knowing I gave up. Thanks for the reply.
                            Are you kidding!!?? Desperate agencies still have standards. If you are found to have lied, you CAN NOT testify in court for an Agency. Intentionally omitting derogatory information is a lie.

                            Some Agencies have lowered their standards related to drug use, NOT intentionally omitting derogatory background information.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Michigan View Post
                              10 years a lot of time to waste. Best of luck to you.
                              Won't be a waste if I get hired. Thank you sir.

                              Originally posted by eagleI View Post

                              Are you kidding!!?? Desperate agencies still have standards. If you are found to have lied, you CAN NOT testify in court for an Agency. Intentionally omitting derogatory information is a lie.

                              Some Agencies have lowered their standards related to drug use, NOT intentionally omitting derogatory background information.
                              Thanks for the input. I am hoping an agency will understand my screw up if I show I have learned from it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by f_x_ View Post

                                Won't be a waste if I get hired. Thank you sir.



                                Thanks for the input. I am hoping an agency will understand my screw up if I show I have learned from it.
                                If you notice Brady v Maryland was a 1963 decision................it's been used to disqualify dishonest applicants for 60 yrs
                                My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                                (F*** Off Cuz Ur Stupid)

                                Comment

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