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anyone ever fail a BI?

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  • anyone ever fail a BI?

    I recently did. Said I falsified or ommited something. I am pretty darn sure I didn't leave anything out of the BI packet. The PSP doesn't tell you what you left out or falsified though. Is there any way to find out specifics and challenge those findings?

    TIA.

  • #2
    Sometimes an applicant will answer background questions incorrectly, mix up data, or make mistakes on dates, addresses, supervisors names, etc. Sometimes employer contacts, coworkers or references will give information that conflicts with what the applicant stated.

    Taken individually these errors or conflicts alone are not grounds for DQ, however, if there are enough of them they start to show a pattern indicative of falsehood, or inattention to detail, or inability to follow written instructions, or any combination of those factors, any one of which is grounds for DQ.

    When I did backgrounds I dumped a number of applicants for just that reason. While I am not familiar with your case, falsehood/omissions sounds like what I am describing.

    I don’t know if your state’s public records act/FOIA/ or whatever they call it in Pennsylvania allows for access to you background investigation to see what the problems is.
    Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

    Comment


    • #3
      L-1, it very well could be an issue with dates, my recollection of events for seperation, etc. Unfortunately when your 30 something years old and your trying to remember things from your early 20's it's easy to forget dates and details.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 20thaeguy View Post
        L-1, it very well could be an issue with dates, my recollection of events for seperation, etc. Unfortunately when your 30 something years old and your trying to remember things from your early 20's it's easy to forget dates and details.
        I am 57 yrs old and can remember within a couple weeks the exact days that I started and stopped each of my 3 adult jobs.

        I can tell you the dates that I graduated High School, College, Law Enforcement Academy, Corrections Academy , Advanced Corrections Training, & Transport School.

        I can tell you the dates I interviewed for promotion and the dates I was promoted.

        A 30 yr old should not have problems remembering dates 10 -15 yrs ago------just plain not being careful in completing your background paperwork is more likely the problem
        Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

        My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

        Comment


        • #5
          FWIW, credibility is paramount in law enforcement. That’s why attention to detail (or lack of it) will get you bounced on the background. If as a police officer you put guesses and estimates in your reports rather than do the actual legwork and find the facts, you will get laughed out of court. At best, you will not be considered a credible witness, at worst you be viewed as a liar. Either way, you will no longer be of value in court because you will have no credibility. Lacking credibility, you will have no further value as a police officer and find yourself unemployed.

          Take time to find the information requested. If it is too hard to do that, then the job will be too hard for you to do, because this is something that will be expected of you on a daily basis.

          Once you gather the information, write it down and keep a reference copy you can work from so your answers are consistent. If you put one set of dates on one background package and a different set of dates and information on another, you either lied on one or are unable to accurately gather facts and answer simple questions. Again, either is a DQ.

          Go here http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/...ceOfficers.doc and download the personal history statement. While this is California’s background package, the information it requests is similar to what most agencies will ask you for. Look at what is seeks and start now in gathering the dates, times, addresses, names, etc. it asks for. That way when you do your next background package your research will already be done, you will have the information handy and you can simply copy it.

          Always keep copies of every document you submit so you can refer back to it and make sure your answers are consistent, or know why you need to make a change in your answers.
          Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 20thaeguy View Post
            I recently did. Said I falsified or ommited something. I am pretty darn sure I didn't leave anything out of the BI packet. The PSP doesn't tell you what you left out or falsified though. Is there any way to find out specifics and challenge those findings?
            TIA.
            Folks are rejected at this stage all the time.

            Your post says falsified or omitted something. Omission can sometimes be as bad as or worse than falsifying- but since we don’t know the specifics of your case, anything we say will be speculative. That said- you can ask specifically and they may have an appeal process, but it’s safe to assume they have concrete proof that you either falsified or omitted something that had direct bearing on your eligibility.

            What it may be is anyone’s guess, but I would lean towards it being something of note that impacted their assessment of your credibility/eligibility. And to be blunt- you NEED to be absolutely sure about every minute detail in the process; not pretty, sorta, kinda, maybe, halfway, or any other such qualifier of half measure.


            Originally posted by 20thaeguy View Post
            L-1, it very well could be an issue with dates, my recollection of events for seperation, etc. Unfortunately when your 30 something years old and your trying to remember things from your early 20's it's easy to forget dates and details.
            Balderdash!

            This smack of you knowing exactly what the contentions issues in your background are and you were loose with details. And I would be hard pressed to find more than a few out of thousands who have such “issues” remembering what I am absolutely certain are pivotal points of information- more so when it comes to those details having import in speaking to your eligibility and credibility.

            Simply put:

            • if you were fired- you were fired

            • If you quit in lieu of being fired- you quit in lieu of being fired

            • If you did drugs- you did drugs

            • If you got a DUI- you got a dui

            • You know (or should) why you were let go from a job

            • You know (or should) the details surrounding tickets, discipline, taxes, bills, etc, etc.



            See the trend here?
            Originally posted by SSD
            It has long been the tradition on this forum and as well as professionally not to second guess or Monday morning QB the officer's who were actually on-scene and had to make the decision. That being said, I don't think that your discussion will go very far on this board.
            Originally posted by Iowa #1603
            And now you are arguing about not arguing..................

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sgt jon View Post

              Balderdash!
              I am sorry to go off topic here but sgt jon you just hit a nerve.

              BALDERDASH! was the favorite "isms" of one of my High School teachers. I can still hear him using that word when debunking the smart mouthed teen agers in Earth Science, Chemistry, or Advanced Trig

              Mr Spaulding passed away this week at 86 yrs of age------I spoke with him last year after 38 yrs (since I graduated)................he remembered me just as well as I remembered him


              Oh sorry -------that was over 15 yrs ago so I shouldn't remember all that
              Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

              My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                I am 57 yrs old and can remember within a couple weeks the exact days that I started and stopped each of my 3 adult jobs.

                I can tell you the dates that I graduated High School, College, Law Enforcement Academy, Corrections Academy , Advanced Corrections Training, & Transport School.

                I can tell you the dates I interviewed for promotion and the dates I was promoted.

                A 30 yr old should not have problems remembering dates 10 -15 yrs ago------just plain not being careful in completing your background paperwork is more likely the problem
                I am glad you can remember exact dates of your events. Even better you managed to only have three adult jobs your entire life. That doesn't happen anymore especially in my field of Information Technology. Regardless I really don't think that is the reason because my dates of employment were right.

                When I was fired I said I was fired. I think it was more of the short reason I provided for that firing versus details gathered from the supervisor. If I said I was fired because I used a computer inappropriately and the BI calls the supervisor and she says I was the worst employee on the planet, well those two things don't line up. I think this is more of the case than anything.

                This was my first BI. I want to know exactly what my DQ was from so if I do ever apply again to Law Enforcement I do a little better job filling out my paperwork in regards to fine grain details. I am pretty discouraged though so I may not even bother. Getting so close to making it through the State Police hiring process to basically be called a liar is a shot to the stomach but certainly not out of the ordinary.
                Last edited by 20thaeguy; 11-08-2013, 06:34 AM. Reason: forgot a word

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 20thaeguy View Post
                  I am glad you can remember exact dates of your events. Even better you managed to only have three adult jobs your entire life. That doesn't happen anymore especially in my field of Information Technology.
                  I never worked in the IT field so I wouldn't know that ----nor would I care

                  All of my adult jobs have been in the Law Enforcement field---Including my "double dipping" job while in retirement.

                  Actually if you want to get technical I could probably tell you within a month the dates of the jobs I have held since I was 14 and started working after school and on summer break.

                  That would increase the number of my "events" considerably

                  Originally posted by 20thaeguy View Post
                  Regardless I really don't think that is the reason because my dates of employment were right.
                  My first blush was that you were DQ'ed for some other reason also.............most investigators will give applicants a chance to correct minor errors in time/date.

                  Since these matters are usually INVESTIGATED by experienced Investigators.........those people can usually tell a mistake from an willful omission.
                  Originally posted by 20thaeguy View Post
                  This was my first BI. I want to know exactly what my DQ was from so if I do ever apply again to Law Enforcement I do a little better job filling out my paperwork in regards to fine grain details. I am pretty discouraged though so I may not even bother. Getting so close to making it through the State Police hiring process to basically be called a liar is a shot to the stomach but certainly not out of the ordinary.
                  The fact of the matter is that you will probably never be told the reason for your disqualification. It is often considered "work product" of an investigation and thus not applicable for release under FOIA.

                  If you are that discouraged then I really doubt that you will be missed in any of the other application processes you might have considered. I know that sounds harsh, but the truth of the matter is that many agencies consider the application phase of the hiring process the most important part.

                  The detailed forms, and the amount of detailed research the applicant is required perform to fill out the paper work correctly will show the agency the amount of effort and accuracy the applicant is willing to perform to move forward in the process.
                  Last edited by Iowa #1603; 11-08-2013, 08:24 AM.
                  Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                  My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I rarely do this......................but I received an unsolicited Private Message from our Original Poster.......................and it just plain pizzed me off......

                    Since it was unsolicited and unwanted i though I would share


                    HERE IS THE PM
                    Originally posted by 20thaeguy
                    For the brutal, but honest information. Law Enforcement was going to be a new career for me. Trying to become a state police officer has proven to be far more difficult than I had thought.

                    I guess the people who do make it through are squeaky clean prior to being hired but then once they are the on the job for a while then they show up in the paper for DUI's, assaults, etc
                    The kid as no business even being considered for the profession
                    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you worked at a temp agency for two weeks and did not list it, You omitted something.

                      I doubt you would be DQ for saying you worked at Dave's gas station from June 2007 until May 2009 when you really started in May2007. Something is not right here..

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Regarding your initial question: anybody ever failed a BI? In my agency, we are loosing approximately 50% at each application stage, including the BI. Then yes, a lot of people are failing the BI.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Quote Originally Posted by 20thaeguy
                          For the brutal, but honest information. Law Enforcement was going to be a new career for me. Trying to become a state police officer has proven to be far more difficult than I had thought.

                          I guess the people who do make it through are squeaky clean prior to being hired but then once they are the on the job for a while then they show up in the paper for DUI's, assaults, etc


                          I've been on the job 14 yrs and have never gotten a DUI, Assaulted anyone etc. The only time I was in the paper was for dragging a 6 foot 220 lb man out of a burning vehicle.
                          If you feel this way about potential colleagues, then why would you want to be in Law enforcement? I'm genuinely curious....

                          I came to this career at age 35 with life experience, some positive, some negative so I wasn't 'squeaky clean'
                          Judge me by the enemies I have made----Unknown

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 20thaeguy View Post
                            I am glad you can remember exact dates of your events. Even better you managed to only have three adult jobs your entire life. That doesn't happen anymore especially in my field of Information Technology. Regardless I really don't think that is the reason because my dates of employment were right.

                            When I was fired I said I was fired. I think it was more of the short reason I provided for that firing versus details gathered from the supervisor. If I said I was fired because I used a computer inappropriately and the BI calls the supervisor and she says I was the worst employee on the planet, well those two things don't line up. I think this is more of the case than anything.

                            This was my first BI. I want to know exactly what my DQ was from so if I do ever apply again to Law Enforcement I do a little better job filling out my paperwork in regards to fine grain details. I am pretty discouraged though so I may not even bother. Getting so close to making it through the State Police hiring process to basically be called a liar is a shot to the stomach but certainly not out of the ordinary.






                            Well Skippy, here it comes," Balderdash". Your latest offering (Post#8) is very revealing. It removes any speculation or doubt as to why you blew the Background.

                            You note that you're currently in a State Police process. Try try this on for size. You're going to flunk this Background as well, and for the same reason(s) you failed the first one you mentioned.

                            My thought for you, and no doubt it will offend you, is for you to get your *****ing act together, grow the hell up, and stop sounding like some entitled, get a trophy for simply showing up clown.

                            This forum has become engulfed in this type of whiney assed immaturity. You're the latest example. My colleagues have very forthrightly explained to you what your problems are, and what has caused you to fail your Background.

                            My suggestion is that you man up and accept and act on this advice. Odds are you won't, but then, that will be your problem.

                            I will now await your self justifying, whiney assed reply to the truths you've been told.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                              You note that you're currently in a State Police process. Try try this on for size. You're going to flunk this Background as well, and for the same reason(s) you failed the first one you mentioned.
                              I give it three weeks before he comes back, tells us he not only got the job, but they were so wowed by him, they didn't even want him to go to the academy. He'll have already been on the road for 6 months and gunning for SGT. Sure to show us how we, and the previous department, had our heads up our collective asses.

                              Comment

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