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  • Depth Perception

    I'm feeling a little lost, so I came to this forum hoping somebody might have some guidance or information for me. I'm a student who was hoping to go through the Chautauqua County Sheriff's Academy in New York. My application process was almost complete. Background check, physical fitness test, and oral board interviews, and everything was looking good. However, when I went for my health screening, I failed my depth perception tests. My depth perception is at 200 arc seconds, and it needs to be at 80 arc seconds. I visited an eye doctor, and it can't be corrected with corrective lenses or surgery. The Lieutenant for the academy said he could still accept me, but there is no future for me here because New York State requires every full time officer to pass that same depth perception test (however, I could work part time if I wanted.)
    My question is, does anybody know of any states where depth perception is not a requirement to be a full time officer? I know it sounds like a silly question, but I've wanted to be a police officer since I was a little girl. I've already overcome so much for this dream, and I really don't want to give it up. If anybody has any guidance for me, I would appreciate it so much. Feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] if you want to send a private message. Thank you.

  • #2
    Iowa does not have a depth perception component in their state standards
    http://www.legis.state.ia.us/ACO/IAChtml/501.htm

    However as a practical matter a person who is challenged with such a deficit that you have would have a hard time performing the duties of a LEO.........................

    I have some deficit in my depth perception and struggle in certain areas...................even after some surgery and corrective lenses.


    Originally posted by rookiepete1990 View Post
    The Lieutenant for the academy said he could still accept me, but there is no future for me here because New York State requires every full time officer to pass that same depth perception test (however, I could work part time if I wanted.) .
    Why, other than the $$$$$$ would an academy accept a person they KNOW can not be hired as a full time officer.....................?
    Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

    Comment


    • #3
      I suggest that you do some research on the subject. Much of this can be done on the internet, so your task will be made a little easier. How far,how in depth you go on your research is up to you. In the event you find an agency, perhaps out of state, ask yourself if you'd be willing to re-locate in order to enter a hiring process. While I don't doubt your veracity, I find it questionable that the Lt. at the Academy would accept you, knowing full well of your deficiency. You did mention though, that with your depth perception issues, you could still be appointed to a part time job. Again, not questioning you, I question the rationale. Seems to me a part time Officer, on duty, should meet the same physical standards as a full time Officer. That's just me though. If push comes to shove, you might consider the possibility of applying for part time employment. Give it some thought, and best of luck in whatever you decide.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
        Iowa does not have a depth perception component in their state standards
        http://www.legis.state.ia.us/ACO/IAChtml/501.htm

        However as a practical matter a person who is challenged with such a deficit that you have would have a hard time performing the duties of a LEO.........................

        I have some deficit in my depth perception and struggle in certain areas...................even after some surgery and corrective lenses.



        Why, other than the $$$$$$ would an academy accept a person they KNOW can not be hired as a full time officer.....................?
        NYS does not allow any type of self-sponsor candidates. All Academy Recruits MUST be sponsored by a bonafide LE Agency.

        Sometimes, an Agency will sponsor a part-time candidate through the Academy without providing any salary (the closest you can come to self-sponsor in NYS), but the Agency is still footing the bill for the Academy itself.

        I'm actually a little confused by the OP's post, and not quite sure what this "can accept you" situation is, but it is definitely not a case of some Academic Institution trying to make a buck - simply not allowed here.

        -V

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by vincelli View Post
          NYS does not allow any type of self-sponsor candidates. All Academy Recruits MUST be sponsored by a bonafide LE Agency.

          Sometimes, an Agency will sponsor a part-time candidate through the Academy without providing any salary (the closest you can come to self-sponsor in NYS), but the Agency is still footing the bill for the Academy itself.

          I'm actually a little confused by the OP's post, and not quite sure what this "can accept you" situation is, but it is definitely not a case of some Academic Institution trying to make a buck - simply not allowed here.

          -V
          I had no idea what the rules were there..................but that rationale is pretty normal in places that allow self sponsor...........

          It's not allowed in Iowa either except the same as you noted above
          Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

          My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

          Comment


          • #6
            Our police academy is through a local college..so if I was accepted into it, I would pay roughly $6000 to go through it, which is the price of two semesters of college tuition, and there's no job guaranteed for anybody upon academy graduation. This is my understanding at least. I might be confused.

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't profess to be all that familiar with NY State Law. One of my colleagues, also from New York, pretty well laid out the standards for academies in New York State. That said, let me offer you a perspective from the deep south. $6000 is a lot of money to pay for an academy when there is absolutely zero guarantee of employment when you complete the course work.Obviously, it's your money, and you can spend it as you see fit. Past that, you might wish to review what Vincelli has posted. He's pretty well versed on NY requirements, and you'd do well to consider his advice. Whatever you decide, I sincerely wish you the best of luck.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rookiepete1990 View Post
                Our police academy is through a local college..so if I was accepted into it, I would pay roughly $6000 to go through it, which is the price of two semesters of college tuition, and there's no job guaranteed for anybody upon academy graduation. This is my understanding at least. I might be confused.
                Many Academies in NYS are through a local Community College. Mine was like this as well.

                That said, you MUST be sponsored by an LE Agency, and the only time that will happen without being hired for a full-time slot is if an Agency is nice enough to sponsor you for a part-time slot. If memory serves, you have two years from completion of the Academy to land a full-time position before your certification expires after being sponsored for a part-time slot.

                Here is the Certificate curriculum from Monroe Community College:

                Program of Study:
                LAW ENFORCEMENT
                Degree: CERTIFICATE PROGRAM



                Description:
                This certificate program in law enforcement develops the knowledge, skills and abilities in the law, the process of the criminal justice system, the scientific method of criminal investigation, applied psychology, report writing, interpersonal communication skills, human interaction techniques, and career specific physical and judgmental skills necessary for law enforcement agents operating in a free society. Enrollment is limited to recruit officers employed or sponsored by law enforcement agencies attending the New York State Basic Course for Police offered at the Public Safety Training Center.

                (Housed in Public Safety Training Center)
                If this is simply a college, or some type of tradeskill institution telling you they will put you through an "Academy Course", without your actually being sponsored by a bonafide LE Agency, then it's a scam. Most likely some sort of private "Academy Course", but the thing to keep in mind is that such a course WILL NOT give you NY BMP (Basic Municipal Police) Certification.

                If this "course" is what I think it is, then they will take your money, provide some training, and then you will find that it was absolutely worthless as even if you later land a LE job you'll have to go through the ENTIRE BMP Academy. There is NO form of shortened Academy in NYS, not even for Accredited LEO's from other states.

                If it's what I think it is, it's a scam.

                -V

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wow. Thank you all so much for your help. It does good to ask opinions of the people who know what they are talking about. I really appreciate it!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I just received an email from a NY non-LEO stating that Erie County is now using a type of self-sponsor Academy in which self-sponsors receive 80% of training (almost everything except firearms), and that they get some kind of "Phase 1" certificate from DCJS; then, if they are hired, they can attend a "Phase 2" class for firearms, etc.

                    Waiting to hear back from him on whether he knows anyone who has received actual NYS BMP Certification through this process.

                    First I've heard of it, and the article he linked makes it sound like this is a new thing.

                    Time for me to take a step back and say I may be completely wrong, or things may have changed. Would like confirmation that the State has actually granted BMP Certification regarding this before I say "go for it", as that has always been the problem with trying to get NYS Certified on your own (the State never granted actual BMP certification).

                    Still, something to look into.

                    -V

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vincelli View Post
                      I just received an email from a NY non-LEO stating that Erie County is now using a type of self-sponsor Academy in which self-sponsors receive 80% of training (almost everything except firearms), and that they get some kind of "Phase 1" certificate from DCJS; then, if they are hired, they can attend a "Phase 2" class for firearms, etc.

                      Waiting to hear back from him on whether he knows anyone who has received actual NYS BMP Certification through this process.

                      First I've heard of it, and the article he linked makes it sound like this is a new thing.

                      Time for me to take a step back and say I may be completely wrong, or things may have changed. Would like confirmation that the State has actually granted BMP Certification regarding this before I say "go for it", as that has always been the problem with trying to get NYS Certified on your own (the State never granted actual BMP certification).

                      Still, something to look into.

                      -V
                      It's funny...............I got spanked on some information I gave on another forum.............about the department I just retired from.....It seems they have changed a few things in the FIVE MONTHS I have been gone!!!!!!!

                      The legislature tried last session to create a self sponsor type system in Iowa.........................The backlash from the certified officers was horrendous-----------The funny thing was the bill was authored by a retired State Trooper who is in the legislature now.
                      The idea didn't fly.........................
                      Since some people need to be told by notes in crayon .......Don't PM me with without prior permission. If you can't discuss the situation in the open forum ----it must not be that important

                      My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Iowa #1603 View Post
                        It's funny...............I got spanked on some information I gave on another forum.............about the department I just retired from.....It seems they have changed a few things in the FIVE MONTHS I have been gone!!!!!!!

                        The legislature tried last session to create a self sponsor type system in Iowa.........................The backlash from the certified officers was horrendous-----------The funny thing was the bill was authored by a retired State Trooper who is in the legislature now.
                        The idea didn't fly.........................
                        Yeah, I'm still hesitant to say this is kosher until I get some kind of verification that BMP Cert is being granted. Without that BMP Cert you are simply out in the cold.

                        Other "programs" I've heard of tell the student "once you get hired, your Agency can just give you this additional training and you're all set". What they DON'T tell them is that no Agency can do this because the Academy is integrated (i.e. our firearms wasn't a seperate dystinct X-week block of training, certain days were "range" days throughout a good portion of the entire Academy).

                        The program I received a link to is actually offering a specific "Phase 2" containing just the training "Phase 1" skipped, so on the face it seems viable, but unless the State confers actual NYS BMP Certification it's useless. Conferring BMP Cert is not up to any college or university; has to come from the State.

                        Just want to know if this has been worked-out.

                        -V

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Allegedly, our is going though the application process (agility test, oral boards, health screening, BI...) and out of about 100 applicants, around 30 are "accepted." The chosen ones foot the $6000 bill, and supposedly get a complete basic police training course (which leads to employment either full or part time.) I've also been told the certificate is only good for a year, and once a year is past, I would have to retake the course. I'm not sure if I am ready to spend that kind of money and take that gamble, just for a chance to stay home. It might be time to look into another part of the country, or at least the state. Honestly, I'm new to this whole LE application process in general, so it wouldn't be a surprise if I got my information incorrect, or was easily misled.

                          http://www.sheriff.us/sheriff/academyfaq.htm
                          http://www.sheriff.us/sheriff/academy.htm


                          it appears as if the academy I am applying to is entirely self sponsor. Then again, I am probably missing something. Thank you so much for all your help, once again.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rookiepete1990 View Post
                            Allegedly, our is going though the application process (agility test, oral boards, health screening, BI...) and out of about 100 applicants, around 30 are "accepted." The chosen ones foot the $6000 bill, and supposedly get a complete basic police training course (which leads to employment either full or part time.) I've also been told the certificate is only good for a year, and once a year is past, I would have to retake the course. I'm not sure if I am ready to spend that kind of money and take that gamble, just for a chance to stay home. It might be time to look into another part of the country, or at least the state. Honestly, I'm new to this whole LE application process in general, so it wouldn't be a surprise if I got my information incorrect, or was easily misled.

                            http://www.sheriff.us/sheriff/academyfaq.htm
                            http://www.sheriff.us/sheriff/academy.htm


                            it appears as if the academy I am applying to is entirely self sponsor. Then again, I am probably missing something. Thank you so much for all your help, once again.
                            Ok, this is a valid program/actual NY Academy. What they are doing is sponsoring you through the Academy (as is required by NYS), but having you foot the bill for the tuition.

                            Once you complete the Academy, you have 2 years to get hired (at least part-time) in order to retain your Cert. (this is listed at the bottom, and my memory was correct).

                            Sounds like they are offering a chance for a "sortof" self-sponsor, but you are still being sponsored as opposed to just going to a college and saying "I want to go through the Academy...".

                            Still waiting for more info on what's going on in Erie County.

                            -V

                            EDIT: And keep in mind that this is still worthless for any full-time position if you are unable to score high enough to be reacheable on the Civil Service List. There is no way around that in NYS regardless of whether you have the Cert, are a real-life Jack Bauer, or Chuck Norris himself.
                            Last edited by vincelli; 06-02-2011, 11:58 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Is it typical to have candidates foot the bill for tuition like that?

                              Comment

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