Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Question about potential disqualifer

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Question about potential disqualifer

    I've been diagnosed with Spondylolysis. I've been wearing a bone stim and a brace, the doctor believes it should heal enough so that i'm out of pain and I would regain full movement. The issue being that it will not go away, and still be on my back. 8% of the population has it, although it is only painful in a small percentage of that.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spondylolysis

  • #2
    You will need to check with whatever department you wish to apply with in order to determine if the disease is a DQ.

    Normally if you can pass the mandated PAT and a physical, you are good to go. From reading the wiki page it sounds like it causes no impairment in function so it shouldn't be a problem

    Your mileage may vary depending on the state and the department you are talking about.

    Sorry no clear cut answer on that one.
    My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

    Comment


    • #3
      The question you're asking is medical in nature, and I for one, am not qualified to answer it. For you to recieve an authoritative answer to your question, I suggest you contact NY POST, or examine the medical/physical requirments of any agency you apply to.

      Comment


      • #4
        Go here http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/Musculo.pdf and start reading at Page VIII-13.

        While these are the California standards for the condition in question, the medical reasoning behind them in relation to law enforcement duties is fairly universal.

        Take these standards to your doctor and ask him how you fit within their criteria. This should give you a rough idea as to where you stand. Ask him to be honest with you, because it will be the department's doctor who will make the final descision and not your own physician.
        Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

        Comment


        • #5
          The Cliff's Notes version of the tome linked by L-1 is that in general a back injury that is fully recovered (i.e., pain free and capable of full function) is not considered a disqualification for employment by the State of California. However, some departments have their own rules which may or may not reflect medical reality. For example, the last time I knew (which admittedly was in the 1980s), the Oklahoma Highway Patrol would automatically disqualify an applicant for spina bifida occulta even though doctors consider it no big deal. The guy I knew who was DQ'd came to work at the same department where I worked and is still there 27 years later. He's never missed a day of work due to back problems.

          It is highly likely that if you make a complete recovery, you can gain employment at some law enforcement agency, but it is also likely that some may reject you without further investigation. I have patients who are Army paratroopers functioning just fine with spondylolysis. I am a doctor, but I am not the one who will have to sign off on you for employment as a LEO; however, I think it is premature to just give up at this point.
          "Son, you are a walkin' violation of the laws of nature...But we don't enforce them laws."

          I am just a country boy tryin' to make some sense
          But I'd like to ask the Congress, I'd like to ask the President
          "Can ya tell me where all the money went?"
          We might not be broke but we're badly bent!


          The Tractors -- "Badly Bent" from the album Owner's Manual

          "Common sense. So rare, it should be a super power." Exodus 259

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HeadDoc View Post
            The Cliff's Notes version of the tome linked by L-1 is that in general a back injury that is fully recovered (i.e., pain free and capable of full function) is not considered a disqualification for employment by the State of California.
            I agree, he should not give up, but lets not lead him down the garden path too quickly. Capable of full function means the absence of a lot of little disqualifying conditions listed in the Ortho Medical Screen Manual. Even though he is pain free and appears to have full range of motion, those little disqualifying conditions that show up on the MRI, EMG or CT may be the final determining factor.

            Remember, under the worker's comp laws of most states, when a work related injury aggravates a pre-existing condition, the employer becomes liable for treating the entire injury (both pre-existing and work related). similarly, it also creates an increased risk for an industrial disability retirement. This potential (and expensive) liability, particularly with respect to ortho matters, falls outside the guidelines for Reasonable Accommodation under ADA and creates a legitimate basis for medical DQ.
            Last edited by L-1; 07-28-2010, 04:30 AM.
            Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by HeadDoc View Post
              The Cliff's Notes version of the tome linked by L-1 is that in general a back injury that is fully recovered (i.e., pain free and capable of full function) is not considered a disqualification for employment by the State of California. However, some departments have their own rules which may or may not reflect medical reality. For example, the last time I knew (which admittedly was in the 1980s), the Oklahoma Highway Patrol would automatically disqualify an applicant for spina bifida occulta even though doctors consider it no big deal. The guy I knew who was DQ'd came to work at the same department where I worked and is still there 27 years later. He's never missed a day of work due to back problems.

              It is highly likely that if you make a complete recovery, you can gain employment at some law enforcement agency, but it is also likely that some may reject you without further investigation. I have patients who are Army paratroopers functioning just fine with spondylolysis. I am a doctor, but I am not the one who will have to sign off on you for employment as a LEO; however, I think it is premature to just give up at this point.
              Thank you all for your replies.

              The main thing is im 16 currently, and its not completely healed. The doctor did say it used to disqualifie people and I should seak guidance as to if it would for me elsewhere, reasoning is when I go to college I don't want to go for something I can not do because of the injury. While it is still healing, he suspects there is no slippage of the spine and I continue to workout on a near-daily basis. He told me no leg, back, abs or shoulder workouts so I focus on pecs, biceps, triceps and traps. I guess it is a good sign I can still workout though.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bromo View Post
                Thank you all for your replies.

                The main thing is im 16 currently, and its not completely healed. The doctor did say it used to disqualifie people and I should seak guidance as to if it would for me elsewhere, reasoning is when I go to college I don't want to go for something I can not do because of the injury. While it is still healing, he suspects there is no slippage of the spine and I continue to workout on a near-daily basis. He told me no leg, back, abs or shoulder workouts so I focus on pecs, biceps, triceps and traps. I guess it is a good sign I can still workout though.
                At age 16, you have several years before you can apply. There is no need for me to either re-hash or revisit the excellent replies you've recieved from both L-1, and Head Doc. In your most recent post you reference, the advice concerning no leg,back, abs, or shoulder workouts. These restrictions could emerge as problems down the road. For the present, continue your schooling. Consider the possibility of joining a Police Explorer Post. It's easy for me to say, but try to take your situation one day at a time. As you noted, it is positive that you can still work out. I sincerely hope things work out for you. Good luck.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bromo View Post
                  ......reasoning is when I go to college I don't want to go for something I can not do because of the injury.
                  I know this may sound strange, but if you intend to make law enforcement a life long career, many of us here will tell you that getting a degree in criminal justice may not be in your best interest.

                  Once hired, your department will provide you with both initial and ongoing law enforcement training. Should anything happen to later short circuit your law enforcement career (like an on the job injury that forces retirement) your CJ degree may be worthless when it comes to getting a new job in private business.

                  While there are many degree programs that are beneficial to a career in law enforcement, personally I would recommend one in Business Administration. Once you go beyond the rank of Sergeant, most of your duties are focused on budgeting, labor relations, planning, marketing, community relations, accounting, fleet management, human resources, inventory and record keeping, just to name a few. A degree in business is most helpful in these areas. People in law enforcement have a disproportionately high rate of disability retirements. Should that happen to you, having a degree in business will make you a lot more marketable when it comes to getting a new job with a private company than will a degree in criminal justice. Should you be unable to go into law enforcement, such a degree will be helpful in the regular business world.

                  As a side note, in getting a Business degree (or any other degree) you are allowed to take a large number of elective (free choice) classes. Use your electives to take CJ courses. This will satisfy your thirst for law enforcement knowledge and at the same time,allow you to get a degree that will help you go up the ranks in law enforcement and give you an edge in later getting a job with a private business.

                  FWIW, most law enforcement agencies do not care what your degree is in. They only care about the fact that you had sufficient personal discipline to make it throuugh school and get the degree.
                  Going too far is half the pleasure of not getting anywhere

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PhilipCal View Post
                    At age 16, you have several years before you can apply. There is no need for me to either re-hash or revisit the excellent replies you've recieved from both L-1, and Head Doc. In your most recent post you reference, the advice concerning no leg,back, abs, or shoulder workouts. These restrictions could emerge as problems down the road. For the present, continue your schooling. Consider the possibility of joining a Police Explorer Post. It's easy for me to say, but try to take your situation one day at a time. As you noted, it is positive that you can still work out. I sincerely hope things work out for you. Good luck.
                    Once it is healed and im out of pain I can resume all of those workouts. I am also now in a police explorers post, I start in October when meetings resume.Thanks for replying

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by L-1 View Post
                      I know this may sound strange, but if you intend to make law enforcement a life long career, many of us here will tell you that getting a degree in criminal justice may not be in your best interest.

                      Once hired, your department will provide you with both initial and ongoing law enforcement training. Should anything happen to later short circuit your law enforcement career (like an on the job injury that forces retirement) your CJ degree may be worthless when it comes to getting a new job in private business.

                      While there are many degree programs that are beneficial to a career in law enforcement, personally I would recommend one in Business Administration. Once you go beyond the rank of Sergeant, most of your duties are focused on budgeting, labor relations, planning, marketing, community relations, accounting, fleet management, human resources, inventory and record keeping, just to name a few. A degree in business is most helpful in these areas. People in law enforcement have a disproportionately high rate of disability retirements. Should that happen to you, having a degree in business will make you a lot more marketable when it comes to getting a new job with a private company than will a degree in criminal justice. Should you be unable to go into law enforcement, such a degree will be helpful in the regular business world.

                      As a side note, in getting a Business degree (or any other degree) you are allowed to take a large number of elective (free choice) classes. Use your electives to take CJ courses. This will satisfy your thirst for law enforcement knowledge and at the same time,allow you to get a degree that will help you go up the ranks in law enforcement and give you an edge in later getting a job with a private business.

                      FWIW, most law enforcement agencies do not care what your degree is in. They only care about the fact that you had sufficient personal discipline to make it throuugh school and get the degree.
                      Thanks for replying. Business administration is one I was considering, but I was more leaning towards Political science, or a similar pre-law 4-year degree so that following completion I could continue to go to school while working in LE so that after I retire I can become a lawyer. I am not a person who likes to sit around, I would love to work and go to school (hence why I set a goal not to attain student debt and pay it off as I need too). My father is a current police officer, I was wondering if that helps, hurts, or doesn't effect me becoming a cop aswell?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hey Bromo:

                        Some great advice here. Your father being a cop and its effect depends... some places knowing someone can help, some places they don't want to hire someone they know, and others simply don't care and will evaluate you based on your own merits. That said, I wouldn't let your fathers position deter you from applying anywhere.

                        You will see different views in relation to criminal justice degrees here. If you're going to pursue a criminal justice degree - select one that you feel gives you skills should you not enter law enforcement. You'll find that there are some out there that are "cop shops" that mimick police academy courses. As others have said, an agency will take the time to train you THEIR way and I agree that you should avoid such schools.

                        I have my B.A. in Criminal Justice and a masters in computer forensics and computer security. That said, if I didn't enter law enforcement - I am confident the criminal justice program I attended and my selection of courses would have prepared me for non-LE fields such as law, business management or any other field (Research methods is useful anywhere, interviewing and interrogation is useful in most fields where you work with other people, management and administration courses can be applied to other fields, the same skills used to manage and direct a criminal investigation can be applied to nearly any field.) On the other hand if you only took things like police report writing, New York Penal Code and Arrest, Search and Seizure as your courses... while interesting, they may not be useful should your path direct you elsewhere.

                        That said... I'd recommend you research programs you are interested in, including criminal justice and those outside it, and do an honest investigation into those programs as well as some self-reflection to see what you hope to get out of it. Best of luck and don't rush into it... enjoy college and keep your nose clean!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GeekswithGuns View Post
                          Hey Bromo:

                          Some great advice here. Your father being a cop and its effect depends... some places knowing someone can help, some places they don't want to hire someone they know, and others simply don't care and will evaluate you based on your own merits. That said, I wouldn't let your fathers position deter you from applying anywhere.

                          You will see different views in relation to criminal justice degrees here. If you're going to pursue a criminal justice degree - select one that you feel gives you skills should you not enter law enforcement. You'll find that there are some out there that are "cop shops" that mimick police academy courses. As others have said, an agency will take the time to train you THEIR way and I agree that you should avoid such schools.

                          I have my B.A. in Criminal Justice and a masters in computer forensics and computer security. That said, if I didn't enter law enforcement - I am confident the criminal justice program I attended and my selection of courses would have prepared me for non-LE fields such as law, business management or any other field (Research methods is useful anywhere, interviewing and interrogation is useful in most fields where you work with other people, management and administration courses can be applied to other fields, the same skills used to manage and direct a criminal investigation can be applied to nearly any field.) On the other hand if you only took things like police report writing, New York Penal Code and Arrest, Search and Seizure as your courses... while interesting, they may not be useful should your path direct you elsewhere.

                          That said... I'd recommend you research programs you are interested in, including criminal justice and those outside it, and do an honest investigation into those programs as well as some self-reflection to see what you hope to get out of it. Best of luck and don't rush into it... enjoy college and keep your nose clean!
                          Thanks for the advice, and no issue there.


                          Also, are there any courses/programs in college that LE agency's see negatively?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bromo View Post
                            Thanks for replying. Business administration is one I was considering, but I was more leaning towards Political science, or a similar pre-law 4-year degree so that following completion I could continue to go to school while working in LE so that after I retire I can become a lawyer. I am not a person who likes to sit around, I would love to work and go to school (hence why I set a goal not to attain student debt and pay it off as I need too). My father is a current police officer, I was wondering if that helps, hurts, or doesn't effect me becoming a cop aswell?
                            Your Dad's status as a Police Officer will neither hurt, nor help you. Sounds a little strange perhaps, but if you enter a Civil Service process, you'll be very much on your own. That said, in our short aquaintence, I believe you're a person who desires to advance on his own merit. You demonstrate an unusual degree of maturity for a young man of sixteen. You have a plan in place which would do justice to someone five or ten years older than yourself. Stay at your plans and goals, and once again, the very best of luck.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by L-1 View Post
                              I agree, he should not give up, but lets not lead him down the garden path too quickly. Capable of full function means the absence of a lot of little disqualifying conditions listed in the Ortho Medical Screen Manual. Even though he is pain free and appears to have full range of motion, those little disqualifying conditions that show up on the MRI, EMG or CT may be the final determining factor.
                              Absolutely. That was my point about the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. In point of fact, a lot of these rules are made after a department gets burned on a worker's comp case and they respond with a blanket DQ. Nevertheless, if Bromo can return to full pain-free function, it's likely that some law enforcement agency somewhere in the country will hire him. At this point, he's still in acute recovery so we don't know what the final outcome will be.
                              "Son, you are a walkin' violation of the laws of nature...But we don't enforce them laws."

                              I am just a country boy tryin' to make some sense
                              But I'd like to ask the Congress, I'd like to ask the President
                              "Can ya tell me where all the money went?"
                              We might not be broke but we're badly bent!


                              The Tractors -- "Badly Bent" from the album Owner's Manual

                              "Common sense. So rare, it should be a super power." Exodus 259

                              Comment

                              MR300x250 Tablet

                              Collapse

                              What's Going On

                              Collapse

                              There are currently 3257 users online. 228 members and 3029 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 158,966 at 04:57 AM on 01-16-2021.

                              Welcome Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X