letters of recommendation

[corey102]

hey I'm currently working on getting into the Detroit police department, and i was curious as to whether or not letters of recommendation help in the hiring process for applicants (I know 3 officers who said they'd be willing to write one for me). Also, my late grandfather retired with the department in the mid 60's, and my fiancé's Uncle retired with the department about 2 years ago. Would mentioning that help my case? will they just figure that out with the b/g check?

[Kimble]

Can't speak for every agency, but I've had letters of recommendation for departments that were fairly sizable, and it did nothing to benefit my application. A small department may allow for more pull for a letter from Officer Joe Blow, but for larger departments, it can't hurt anything, but may not necessarily help.

[corey102]

Yeah, I figured I'll take it but i was curious if it mattered. thanks for the info. I'm kinda caught between Detroit PD or corrections officer, or finishing school and applying somewhere else. I was wondering if anyone had insight as to what would be more beneficial. From what Ive heard, Detroit has an excellent academy and their officers are amongst the best trained in the state. But I've also heard of many accounts of corruption within the department. I was hoping on getting into the department and finishing school down the road.

[PhilipCal]

hey I'm currently working on getting into the Detroit police department, and i was curious as to whether or not letters of recommendation help in the hiring process for applicants (I know 3 officers who said they'd be willing to write one for me). Also, my late grandfather retired with the department in the mid 60's, and my fiancé's Uncle retired with the department about 2 years ago. Would mentioning that help my case? will they just figure that out with the b/g check?

I'm not familiar with the Detroit PD hiring process, but I'll offer this. Many large cities are governed by Civil Service rules. This usually involves taking a written examination. Merely passing the exam is not usually sufficient to get you placed high on the eligibility register. At this point, all the Letters of Recommendation in the world, would be of 0 value to you. OTH, in a smaller, less formal hiring process, Letters of Recommendation could be of some value.I suggest you check with Detroit PD, get a handle on their hiring process, and ask if the letters would be of value to you.

[corey102]

I'm scheduled to take the written mcoles test on the 9th, from what I hear you've gotta be damn near retarded to fail it so I'm fairly confident in that. then comes the background investigator and the physical test. I've been working out so I'm pretty sure I'll do well on that...I just haven't completed college and I'm worried ill be outclassed by better candidates.

[just joe]

Unless they ask for them, they mean nothing, especially at a civil service dept.

[2971511]

Lets just say it probably will not HURT you.

[L-1]

In civil service agencies. hiring is usually done based on your combined written and oral test scores. Highest score gets picked first, second highest score gets hired next, third highest score, etc. Your score will depend on the number of correct answers you give to the exam questions and not on how many letters of recommendation you come up with.

The only way other applicants will outclass you is if they give more correct answers to the exam questions than you do.

If you want to get a feel for the oral exam, take a look at http://www.post.ca.gov/selection/S&E...wguide-web.pdf While it is a document that is designed to assist agencies in conducting oral interviews, applicants may find some of the information useful.

[2971511]

letters

Unless they ask for them, they mean nothing, especially at a civil service dept.

See, Joe, and L-1, I have to disagree. Lets say you get 2 applicants, both get the same score on the civil service test. You need to decide which one to hire.

Both applicants have been working as retail salespersons, for local stores since graduating HS and have similar personal histories.

Applicant 1. Lived next door to an officer growing up, and the officer knows him WELL. No loud parties when the parents go away on business. No pulling up late at night and drunkenly driving into his own or worse, neighbors mail box, etc.

The officer is also the local SRO at the H.S. and Applicant #1 has had ZERO trouble in school. The officer knows that this kid is squared awy, on time, teachers do not have trouble with him. So, the officer writes him a glowing recommendation.

Applicant #2. Also lives in town, got good grades in HS, and no issues in his background. They both sound good, but one is personally known by a veteran of your department, who went out of the way to put pen to paper and write something nice, the other is basically unknown.

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO HIRE. ???????

[just joe]

See, Joe, and L-1, I have to disagree. Lets say you get 2 applicants, both get the same score on the civil service test. You need to decide which one to hire.

Both applicants have been working as retail salespersons, for local stores since graduating HS and have similar personal histories.

Applicant 1. Lived next door to an officer growing up, and the officer knows him WELL. No loud parties when the parents go away on business. No pulling up late at night and drunkenly driving into his own or worse, neighbors mail box, etc.

The officer is also the local SRO at the H.S. and Applicant #1 has had ZERO trouble in school. The officer knows that this kid is squared awy, on time, teachers do not have trouble with him. So, the officer writes him a glowing recommendation.

Applicant #2. Also lives in town, got good grades in HS, and no issues in his background. They both sound good, but one is personally known by a veteran of your department, who went out of the way to put pen to paper and write something nice, the other is basically unknown.

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO HIRE. ???????

Provided they made it that far, that info would be found as part of the background investigation process and, if the neighbor wanted to submit a letter, we would take it. Until that time, the letter means nothing.

[mikeymedic]

I agree with the above. Until the end of the process your just another number on the list.

[nasa808]

They really dont mean anything when dealing with civil service departments. Also,I know when I was trying to get on the job, several of the applications wanted 3 references that WERE NOT police officers.

[L-1]

See, Joe, and L-1, I have to disagree. Lets say you get 2 applicants, both get the same score on the civil service test. You need to decide which one to hire.

Both applicants have been working as retail salespersons, for local stores since graduating HS and have similar personal histories.

Applicant 1. Lived next door to an officer growing up, and the officer knows him WELL. No loud parties when the parents go away on business. No pulling up late at night and drunkenly driving into his own or worse, neighbors mail box, etc.

The officer is also the local SRO at the H.S. and Applicant #1 has had ZERO trouble in school. The officer knows that this kid is squared awy, on time, teachers do not have trouble with him. So, the officer writes him a glowing recommendation.

Applicant #2. Also lives in town, got good grades in HS, and no issues in his background. They both sound good, but one is personally known by a veteran of your department, who went out of the way to put pen to paper and write something nice, the other is basically unknown.

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO HIRE. ???????

I think a lot of it depends on where you are and the size of your agency.

Out here if it is a large agency, they just go down the list and hire in the order of your score. If two people are tied, you just pick one and leave the other on the list. You will get him on the next vacancy in a week or so.

OTOH, if it is a medium to small agency with few openings, out here we have something called the Rule of Three. It allows a department to fill a vacancy from anyone in the top three scores on the hiring list. They have total discretion as to which one they choose and the other two who are not selected go back on the list and get considered for the next vacancy.

Usually the Chief or his designee calls each of the three candidates in, conducts a one hour interview and makes their selection based on which candidate did best in that interview. It's not too hard to make your pick. A 60 minute one-on-one gives you a pretty good feel for what the person is like and how well you will be able to work with them.

Sometimes all are equally skilled, so you make your decision on quirks or negatives. The last interview of this type that was delegated to me involved three candidates, all females who were equally matched as far as prior experience and training. One gave the impression that while her work would be satisfactory, it would rarely exceed the minimum standards for quality and quantity. The second candidate looked like a high producer, but she also came off as someone who needed a lot of attention and recognition from her supervisors and seemed to be high maintenance. Te third candidate came across as someone who could do the job well and be a high producer with minimal supervision. I chose her and never regretted it.

The position we filled prior to that involved interviewing three males. it wasn't hard to separate the one guy who had his act together from the ones who were winging it and again, I never regretted the choice I made on who to hire.

I have never had a Rule of Three interview where applicants were so close that I couldn't make a decision. However if I had, it wouldn't have really made that much of a difference (at least to me). If they were both that close, it's like splitting hairs - either one will do.

[corey102]

thanks for all the advice fellas. im definitely going to work on the testing.

[2971511]

We hire lessthan 100 officers per year, sometimes a lot less. See when we hire, after the test, they get ranked in numerical order. Then they do a Medical, Psych, then if you pass those they do an Oral board. 3 officials sit down with you and ask you questions, I think that at that point if they had an academy clas for say 10 candidates, and 2 with the same score, both of whom passed the background, the letter might help.

I know if I were King of a Day, or Chief of Police it would help me decide between 2 equally qualified candidates, but then I'm old school and I think recommendations mean something. I certainly would not recommend anyone unless I was 100% sure of them.