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Scenario of pulling over a robbery suspect

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  • Scenario of pulling over a robbery suspect

    A robbery occurs and you hear it occur over the radio. When the units arrive the subject has fled via vehicle. A BOLO is put out for the vehicle and you go on with your duty. 15mins later your on a routine patrol and spot the robbery subject blow by you at a high rate of speed... Your back up units are minutes away and if you tail this guy for too long he will know your onto him. What do you do? Do you even attempt to pull him over? If you do, do you go ahead and pull him over coming out with your gun drawn (like you would with a robbery subject) or do you make him believe your pulling him over for his speed and and treat is as a traffic stop until additional units arrive to detaine the guy?

    I would think most officers would come out with guns drawn at him but I've heard a few say they would tail him and do things differently.

  • #2
    Follow until back up units arrive.....conduct felony traffic stop.
    The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

    "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

    "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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    • #3
      Follow him, wait for back up and air unit. Conduct a felony stop. If he starts to take off like a bat outta hell prior to back up units arrive go in pursuit. We have a policy that we are to wait until sufficient back up units and an air unit arrive prior to making a stop on a felony vehicle unless there are exigent circumstances that dictate otherwise. But in LA you ask for a back up for a following and u have a unit within a minute or two, go in pursuit and everyone and their brother will show up.
      Originally Posted by VegasMetro
      maybe it’s me but I think a six pack and midget porn makes for good times?????

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      • #4
        Wait until back-up arrives. You DO NOT want to "carry on like it's a normal traffic stop." Mr. Robber will know why you're stopping him, and if it's an armed robbery, he won't wait to see if you're stopping him for something else.

        If you keep following him until back-up arrives, you'll make him more and more nervous, giving you an advantage. Then go about performing a high-risk (felony) traffic stop.

        But DO NOT EVER stop a known robbery suspect by yourself.
        sigpic

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Guams View Post
          If you keep following him until back-up arrives, you'll make him more and more nervous, giving you an advantage. Then go about performing a high-risk (felony) traffic stop.

          But DO NOT EVER stop a known robbery suspect by yourself.
          Sorry, but I'll disagree on this one. Following a suspect who knows he's wanted for something serious for too long can allow him to make the plan and call the shots. If a suspect left our city limits and a lone officer was following at "normal" speed, following too long could let the suspect decide to flee. Now the lone officer is in pursuit, going into unfamiliar territory w/o backup and getting into greater danger. Even if he can keep track of his location (tough to do when your alone and operating the radio), responding officers will probably have difficulty catching up to him promptly at any point of termination.

          If I was in the above situation, at a certain point I'd feel safer taking the initiative and making the stop solo, at gunpoint and relying on a more prompt arrival of responding officers. Waiting too long could also (with my agency) cause difficulty with radio reception and expecting fast response from other agencies was unlikely due to the long chain of communication.

          Sometimes taking a more aggressive posture quickly, prevents suspects from recognizing that your alone and deciding to act before your backup arrives. If the suspect were to abandon his vehicle, I'd remain in place and attempt to set up a perimeter. Attempting to catch him on foot (one on one) puts you in the same position as a lone unit vehicular pursuit.
          Last edited by pulicords; 08-06-2008, 01:22 AM.
          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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          • #6
            I work right on the border of a lot rougher town than our municipality, as a whole. My area is the crappy part that is across the highway, so alot of our serious crimes occur and they are high tailing it back home, next door. We usually notify disp. and had them relay on poin to point that I am heading into the neighboring town, and they are right there to assist. What is nice is they are not as bound by policy as us, and it really helps in pursuits and such even if I get called off, I can shut down keep sight and they can/will pick it up. In the case of an armed robbery we try to wait for assist cars, but I am not about to let them get away if I can stop them. Back up is always close here and you would never live it down here if you let someone go with out being called off by a supervisor.

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            • #7
              Pulllicords, to your response I have to reply that our policy prohibits this, also it is very dangerous to stop a robbery suspect as a single unit, even if you ride double like we do. My dept looks at a pursuit of a robbery suspect much better than a single unit stop with an OIS. We would get hammered if we stopped a wanted car w/o a back up and a shooting happened. You being from an LA county agency should know how easily another unit or outside agency can help you if needes
              Originally Posted by VegasMetro
              maybe it’s me but I think a six pack and midget porn makes for good times?????

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              • #8
                Attempt the stop and use vehicle for cover...NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE APPROACH THE VEHICLE WITHOUT PROPER BACK UP

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mtxpro752 View Post
                  Pulllicords, to your response I have to reply that our policy prohibits this, also it is very dangerous to stop a robbery suspect as a single unit, even if you ride double like we do. My dept looks at a pursuit of a robbery suspect much better than a single unit stop with an OIS. We would get hammered if we stopped a wanted car w/o a back up and a shooting happened. You being from an LA county agency should know how easily another unit or outside agency can help you if needes
                  +1.....

                  You would catch time off on the bricks with us for violating policy, and the officer safety violation......esp. if it went even slightly sideways.....
                  The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                  "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                  "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rodeodeputy View Post
                    Attempt the stop and use vehicle for cover...NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE APPROACH THE VEHICLE WITHOUT PROPER BACK UP
                    don't go up there period. Get them out at gunpoint and bring them back and into a position of disadvantage, with sufficient back up. Team clearance of the vehicle to clear after all known occupants are removed......
                    Today's Quote:

                    "The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
                    Albert Einstein

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mtxpro752 View Post
                      Pulllicords, to your response I have to reply that our policy prohibits this, also it is very dangerous to stop a robbery suspect as a single unit, even if you ride double like we do. My dept looks at a pursuit of a robbery suspect much better than a single unit stop with an OIS. We would get hammered if we stopped a wanted car w/o a back up and a shooting happened. You being from an LA county agency should know how easily another unit or outside agency can help you if needes
                      Actually the scenario I'm describing did occur and I believe the officer (a K-9 handler) acted properly. The suspect vehicle (one occupant) was located leaving our city limits on the freeway. The other responding units were few in number (it was Morning Watch) were taking different directions E/B on a different frwy and N/B on the same, when the officer observed the suspect S/B some distance from his backup. Regardless of L.A. County's other agencies, the fact is that this officer's nearest backup was going to be another officer from his own agency. The decision to make the stop on the freeway (felony stop) enabling backup to arrive soonest (vs pursuit into unfamiliar territory) was (IMO) correct and I backed him on it.

                      A solo police vehicle pursuit into unfamiliar territory, where the suspect could easily stop and engage the officer(s) or terminate (crash) where backup would have a difficult time finding him, would have made a bad situation worse. Even in the smallish city where I worked (about 10 square miles), sometimes it would take 5-10 minutes for us to find officers from other agencies after they requested assistance via their own dispatch. Usually, the backup from their own department arrived after we did.

                      Sometimes one has to take the lesser of two evils and I believe the officer's conduct/reasoning was justifiable.
                      "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                        Sometimes one has to take the lesser of two evils and I believe the officer's conduct/reasoning was justifiable.
                        Pulli,

                        Although his reasoning may have been reasonable, it is against policy for more than a few agencies......now, he may not have been hung out to try because the incident worked out for the better....but, if it had went at all sideways, he would have been toast administratively......

                        I've seen guys get cleared in OIS incidents as far as the criminal side, and then get 10-20 days off for violating officer safety protocol......sometimes it seems to depend on who is doing the commanders' review......
                        The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                        "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                        "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LA DEP View Post
                          I've seen guys get cleared in OIS incidents as far as the criminal side, and then get 10-20 days off for violating officer safety protocol......sometimes it seems to depend on who is doing the commanders' review......
                          ....or who's reviewing the commanders (ie: Merrick Bobb). The thing of it is, I can recall a lot more pursuits that terminated with shooting than felony stops (initiated by one or more officers) that resulted in shooting. This second guessing can and often does go waaaay to far. Until very recently, if the "robbery vehicle" was wanted for "strong-arm" only, we wouldn't even be within policy to chase it.

                          If memory serves me correctly, an LASD deputy was disciplined for a shooting after chasing a guy just a few feet without backup. While I don't agree with one-officer foot pursuits, I think it is reasonable for someone to run a few steps to grab a guy that just assaulted him. Was the deputy's actions reasonable? I thought so, but "those guys" didn't seem to waste any time on showing him otherwise.
                          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                            ....or who's reviewing the commanders (ie: Merrick Bobb). The thing of it is, I can recall a lot more pursuits that terminated with shooting than felony stops (initiated by one or more officers) that resulted in shooting. This second guessing can and often does go waaaay to far. Until very recently, if the "robbery vehicle" was wanted for "strong-arm" only, we wouldn't even be within policy to chase it.

                            If memory serves me correctly, an LASD deputy was disciplined for a shooting after chasing a guy just a few feet without backup. While I don't agree with one-officer foot pursuits, I think it is reasonable for someone to run a few steps to grab a guy that just assaulted him. Was the deputy's actions reasonable? I thought so, but "those guys" didn't seem to waste any time on showing him otherwise.
                            Not sure of exactly how far the foot pursuit went, but I know of at LEAST two incidents that resulted in days on the bricks for what you are describing.....
                            The posts on this forum by this poster are of his personal opinion, and his personal opinion alone

                            "Politicians are like diapers. They need to be changed often and for the same reason"

                            "We fight not for glory; nor for wealth; nor honor, but only and alone we fight for freedom, which no good man surrenders but with his life"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The one I was thinking of was pretty heavily reported in the media a few months ago. I kept thinking about how many "bad guys" in the community must laughing to themselves about the next time a deputy wanted them to stop for something and they didn't want to.

                              Sad what's become of our leadership. "Back in the day", LASD trained the use of wrist locks and control holds to keep a suspect in custody, if he tried to resist. When the "hands behind the back/prayer position" appeared, I was surprised to hear trainers explaining that it was preferable to release resistant suspects and push them away, then it was to overcome that resistance and keep them in custody. I guess I'm too old in my belief that keeping suspects is better than letting them go.
                              "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

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