What do you think of antiwar protesters?

[Ralph8119]

Trained Journalist! Come on you said yourself you work two part time jobs. You want to know why most here won't take you seriously or call you naive? Because your so called research is just more rhetoric from like minded individuals instead of actual reliable sources or god forbid actual experience.

You said your own experience with the police was nothing but professional yet you are willing to believe others accounts over your own. What journalist does that?
I don't think your age has anything to do with it. You said you were 31 years old so am I. But there is a difference. I am an 11 year Army Vet with a 4 year degree and current LEO. You are working on your degree while working part time jobs. The places you and your protester buddies like to pontificate about I have actually been. I have stood in Baghdad and had Iraqis thank me for what I was doing. I have been to Abu Ghraib, where you and your friends wanted to condemn the whole military for a few morons that took inappropriate pictures, and while there I stood in the rooms that still had the meat hooks in the ceilings from where Saddam's men would hang and torture people. I have been to GITMO and seen the detainees there, who protesters think should be freed, the same ones that swear if they are released they will go back to fighting until every infidel is dead. I have been to Afghanistan and listened as Afghan women explained the horrible torture they survied and the stories of their friends who died under the Taliban. So you'll have to forgive me and the others here who have had similar experiences when we believe what we have seen over what you have "researched" or what others have told you.
A professional journalist would get out from behind his computer, stop using goggle to get all their information, and actually go to these places for themselves and report what is really going on. You my friend have done none of this. You watch the latest critical mass videos on You-tube and think you know what is really going on.
You can post a million links if you want it still won't change that fact that right now nobody at the NSA, or in the Government, cares what you are doing.

Well Said!!!

[cpd169]

Trained Journalist! Come on you said yourself you work two part time jobs. You want to know why most here won't take you seriously or call you naive? Because your so called research is just more rhetoric from like minded individuals instead of actual reliable sources or god forbid actual experience.

You said your own experience with the police was nothing but professional yet you are willing to believe others accounts over your own. What journalist does that?
I don't think your age has anything to do with it. You said you were 31 years old so am I. But there is a difference. I am an 11 year Army Vet with a 4 year degree and current LEO. You are working on your degree while working part time jobs. The places you and your protester buddies like to pontificate about I have actually been. I have stood in Baghdad and had Iraqis thank me for what I was doing. I have been to Abu Ghraib, where you and your friends wanted to condemn the whole military for a few morons that took inappropriate pictures, and while there I stood in the rooms that still had the meat hooks in the ceilings from where Saddam's men would hang and torture people. I have been to GITMO and seen the detainees there, who protesters think should be freed, the same ones that swear if they are released they will go back to fighting until every infidel is dead. I have been to Afghanistan and listened as Afghan women explained the horrible torture they survied and the stories of their friends who died under the Taliban. So you'll have to forgive me and the others here who have had similar experiences when we believe what we have seen over what you have "researched" or what others have told you.
A professional journalist would get out from behind his computer, stop using goggle to get all their information, and actually go to these places for themselves and report what is really going on. You my friend have done none of this. You watch the latest critical mass videos on You-tube and think you know what is really going on.
You can post a million links if you want it still won't change that fact that right now nobody at the NSA, or in the Government, cares what you are doing.

Well said brother! Well said indeed.

[mdrdep]

I don't like protesting, but I don't know how to show it..

Ralph I understand what you were trying to tell Danger, but.........."I don't care who you are, that's funny right there"

[Group 29]

I don't like protesting, but I don't know how to show it..

I got it, too.

[Ralph8119]

Non-LE posting in LE forums.

Ralph I understand what you were trying to tell Danger, but.........."I don't care who you are, that's funny right there"

Tell me,
"What in the hell was in that response"
Frank has sent out a request to the LEO membership about a month ago to help control civilians from abusing the rules here on officer.com, you may not care who I am, I do!
Have a nice day!

[tiny]

Very well then, Sgt. Elmer. Ask and ye shall receive. I had a hunch one of you would ask me this. See, I am learning about you.

Here:

All articles about how you, by which I mean the police, not you yourself, have infiltrated our groups and spied on our members.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5626076
http://www.wbaltv.com/news/16998177/detail.html
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/7/2...e_police_spied
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/oct2003/spy-o23.shtml



Articles about how antiwar activists have been denied the right to travel on a plane due to their political activities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/ny...0A&oref=slogin
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0803-03.htm



An article about the ever growing anti-terror watch list, 700,000 strong at the time of its publication and growing larger. Included on the list is the dastardly Nelson Mandela, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/...n_mandela.html



My personal favorite here. An article about how sometimes, a few officers of the law, and understand that I do not include all of you in this, have taken it upon themselves to um, how shall I put this… lie, under oath, about what happened at various protests in order to tack more charges onto those that they arrested. The incidents were all caught on video, which directly contradicted the officers’ testimony. Understand that I am not bashing all police here. I was 100% guilty when I was arrested, and overall, the conduct of the police was very professional. But that is not always the case. These incidents were all caught on video, which directly contradicted the officers’ testimony.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/ny...0A&oref=slogin

“Hundreds of cases against people arrested during the 2004 Republican National Convention collapsed under an avalanche of videotaped evidence that either completely contradicted police accounts, or raised significant questions about their reliability. The videotapes were made by people involved in the protests, bystanders, tourists and police officers.
At the New York Public Library, a small group holding a banner against one of the stone lions was arrested and charged with blocking traffic in the middle of 42nd Street, although video showed they were on the steps, and nowhere near the street.
In another case at the library, a police officer testified that he and three other officers had to carry one protester, Dennis Kyne, by his hands and feet down the library steps. Videotape showed that Mr. Kyne walked down the steps under his own power, and that the officer who testified against him had no role in his arrest. The charges were dismissed; the Manhattan district attorney’s office declined to bring perjury charges against the officer who gave the testimony.
Dozens of complaints were sworn by police officers who said they had witnessed people violating the law on Fulton Street and near Union Square, but later admitted under oath that their only involvement was to process the arrests, and that they had not actually seen the disorderly conduct that was charged.”

And finally, last but not least, articles about the full scope of the surveillance of the American people, all done without warrants, all done without their knowledge, and all done with the aid and assistance of the telecommunications industry.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/07/po...gewanted=print

“WASHINGTON, Feb. 6 — President Bush decided against allowing the National Security Agency to intercept purely domestic phone calls and e-mail messages after the Sept. 11 attacks in part because officials realized such a decision would provoke intense opposition if made public, Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales testified Monday.
Mr. Gonzales sidestepped numerous questions about how the program operated. He would not say, for instance, how many American citizens have been the targets of the eavesdropping operation, or exactly when the program started. His refusal to discuss details exasperated Democrats, who were also frustrated that he refused to answer other queries that he termed "hypothetical" about any limits to the president's powers.”
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/01...lecom-immunity

“A former AT&T employee made a harrowing discovery while working there: a secret room built specifically for the NSA, where ALL internet traffic is recorded and stored in its entirety.
Mark Klein was working for AT&T in San Francisco, when he opened the door to let in a visitor from the National Security Agency. He wondered, "What the heck is the NSA doing here?"

He discovered documents a year later which showed that the NSA had access to disturbing amounts of email, search records and other internet records from not just AT&T, but about a dozen other telecommunications providers, both domestic and global, many of them likely unaware.

Klein says he has no problems turning in AT&T for giving the NSA access to information that the Bush Administration claimed it was not using. "If they've done something massively illegal and unconstitutional -- well, they should suffer the consequences," said Klein. "It's not my place to feel bad for them. They made their bed, they have to lie in it. The ones who did [anything wrong], you can be sure, are high up in the company. Not the average Joes, who I enjoyed working with."

http://www.digitaljournal.com/articl...ng_on_Citizens

http://www.politico.com/blogs/thecry...ecom_cash.html




Satisfied? You are all trained LEO’s and/or soldiers, trained very well I’m sure. But I am a trained journalist. Understand that I will never make a claim that I am not prepared to back up, and understand that I do not take my research lightly. When I make a statement, it comes from serious investigation. I do not blame all cops for what I have mentioned in this post, but you WILL NOT deny that it is happening, not with me. I may be young and idealistic, but one thing you would find about me if you got to know me very well is that I am not naïve.

When it comes to cops and protesters, there has been violence and misconduct on both sides. I’ve seen protesters do it to police, and I have seen police do it to protesters. I have also seen police use great restraint when in all honesty, they didn’t have to. When it comes to the government, they have no excuses. They have exploited terrorism as a means to seize more power, and if you can’t see that, then it is not me who is naïve here.

First off, I wouldn't be quoting Democracy Now or the World Socialist Website or Mother Jones as a credible news source. Nor would I be relying on the NY Times, seeing as they have a track record of hiring people who end up fabricating stories (also, posting articles that one can actually read without having to sign up for an account to access is a big plus). As for the "spying"...if the groups are open to the public, there is no expectation of privacy. If you are handing out flyers, or print media, or giving lectures, et al, there is no expectation of privacy, hence no need for a search warrant. If these groups advertise events, meetings, rallies, etc, to try to garner more support, they have no expectation of privacy. Do you have a problem with undercover officers infiltrating and gathering intelligence on militias? white supremacist groups? organized crime rings? anti-abortion groups? outlaw motorcycle gangs? Why is it then a problem if a protest group is vetted and checked out, seeing as protesters do have a history of breaking the law, and some instigating violence?

And by the way, Mandela is a convicted terrorist, and a communist. He freely admitted in an opening statement during his trial in 1963, that he was guilty of acts of sabotage. Amnesty International dropped him as a prisoner of conscience due to his use of violence. So why wouldn't he be on a terror watch list? And the Nobel Prize has become a joke, so waving those credentials around means jack.

As for the warrantless wiretapping, I'll admit, I'm not 100% up to speed on it,as both sides tend to spin it to their benefit. Let me put this in another light, and ask you what you believe as far as rights go. Do you support the 2nd Amendment as an individual right? IF so, do you subscribe to the notion that it only covers firearms of the era in which the BOR was adopted, basically limiting it to blackpowder muskets? If so, are you willing then to interpret the BOR by the same measure, and apply the first amendment strictly to the printing press...not radio, tv, email, etc...as those technologies did not exist nor were they even imagined at that time? If one is to be consistent then in this belief, then would the warrantless wiretaps be an issue, as they involve a technology not covered, since it wasn't even thought of at the time the BOR was adopted? If the 1st amendment does then cover modern forms of communication, are you willing to use the same standard, and subscribe to the notion that people are guaranteed the right to own modern arms, as well? Do you support the death penalty? If not, why, as it is obviously Constitutional, as long as the condemned was afforded due process. See as a police officer, I am concerned with protecting ALL the rights that are affirmed in the Constitution and BOR, which I find many on the lleft which make up the vast majority of protesters, tend to pick and choose which rights they want to defend. To answer your question about what do I think about protesters...I think they are misguided and naive at best, treasonous at worst. As long as they are PEACEFUL, though, they have the right to be ignorant. What I do find ironic though, is the Democrats...they're all for protests when it suits them, but when they are being protested, we must move them away from us. Just look at the DNC convention in Boulder (oh, and another thing about protesters...storing urine and feces to throw at people is not going to win any support from anyone, and I have to question the mental faculties of anyone who would even think that would be a viable method of protesting).


I will say though, I have appreciated your posts, and your respect. While I do not agree with your POV, it was offered fairly intelligently...

[t150vsuptpr]

We're all being watched Group29, even you, in this here land of the free.

Where do I go to apply for one of those watcher jobs then?

Looking for something that I can do in retirement, with all that "watching" going on, I figure theye're looking for help.

Oh yeah .... How's the pay?

[DAL]

Although protesters generally dislike the police, they have a need for a police presence. Police protect the protesters from the public that the protesters often antagonize.

[Group 29]

Where do I go to apply for one of those watcher jobs then?

Looking for something that I can do in retirement, with all that "watching" going on, I figure theye're looking for help.

Oh yeah .... How's the pay?

Yep. The people who think all the phones are tapped and everyone is being watched, never stop and think what the manpower requirement would be to do that (or even what it is to tap just one phone, even using a FISA warrant, where you don't have to real time it).

Officer: Boss, I know we've got crime up to our @ss here in the city, rapes, murdes, burglaries, drug dealing and all, but there is this cat, Downtown Hound, and I hear he's a protester, and I want to put him under surveillance. You know, a T-3 on his phone, mail cover, @ss tracker, border watch, the works. What are the chances of me getting the hundred thousand dollars or so a month that this is going to take?
Boss: None.
Officer: Did you not hear me say he is a protester? And, not any old protester, but a WAR protester?
Boss: No.
Officer: But, he's an a**h***, too.
Boss: No.
Officer: Okay, then. I'll just go take the hundred thousand dollars out of my retirement account and take some leave and do it myself.

Only in Downtown Hound's world

[Downtown Hound]

Wow, this is still going on? Anyways, I know I promised that I wouldn't be returning, and I'm not here to fight. I could respond to the general pile on that has occurred since I left, but I think we've been over that through and through. I just wanted to say one thing to Tiny.

Thank you for recognizing that I tried to show respect while I was here. Know in your heart of hearts that I respect all of you, even those of you that can't stand me. I appreciate all of you taking the time to respond, and I appreciate everything you do. If we can at least acknowledge that we respect each other, even when we passionately disagree, then that's a start. And from my point of view, breaking down the divisions that have been built up between us is far more devastating to the war machine than anything else, even letting one of you lock me up for awhile in protest. Anyways, thanks again Tiny.

Adios all. Be happy and stay true. Peace.

Downtown Hound

[ray8285]

I just came back here.....

DH, like most liberals, focus on Halliburton and Irazq...how come they never mention Clinton using them in easter Europe? Could it be because they are the biggest and best company for the job?

[ccsd157]

IMHO

There has always been war, there will always be war. I realize that the president, and the government has access to information that we as the public dont, therefore I will not stand back and second guess them, or act like some idiot in the streets protesting things I do not have full information on.

I think protesters should spend more time at work...maybe that will help our economy.

[cueball06]

I personally have no respect and no like for them but I respect their right to assemble and protest in a lawful manner.

[pilotguyCANADA]

Okay anti-war is fine depending on how you show it. I think you should always support the soldiers, BUT that doesn't mean you have to support the war. They're just doing their job. OR come to Canada

[Downtown Hound]

Hmmm...somebody resurrected this thread? All righty then.

Hello officers. It's been awhile. I make it a point to read this site fairly regularly now. As painful as it is for me to admit, it's probably the most intelligent right wing site on the internet, much more so than freerepublic.com or protestwarrior.com. I realize not all of you are right wingers, but most of you are. I also realize that this is not, in and of itself, a political site, but no matter how you slice it, politics and the police go hand in hand, especially when we're talking about protesting. My apologies to any of you that do not consider yourselves a member of that particular political persuasion.

Given that the world siutation has changed somewhat dramatically in the last few months since we spoke, it might interest some of you to know that my previous penchant for civil disobedience has been somewhat....lessoned.

Of course, I am a radical liberal, many of you would probably call me socialist. That's fine, I don't consider that title to be an insult. After all, the biggest commie in the world couldn't hope to match the trillion dollar plus corporate socialism going on right now under the name of "bailout," but I digress. The point is that there may come a day when I do so again, but that day is unlikely to happen anytime soon. For the moment at least, I'm reformed. LOL.

I hope you all have been well. I know many of you aren't happy with how the election turned out, your own posts indicate as much with the exception of a few of you. I want you to know I know EXACTLY how you feel. I was depressed enough after 2000 and that ridiculous Supreme Court decision that put our country in the hands of an overgrown child with serious daddy issues. But after 2004, I felt like I didn't have a country. I woke up the next morning and despaired. So far from rubbing it in here, I want you to know this: you have nothing to fear from the left. I wouldn't want anyone to have to go through what many of us liberals felt on that dark day, not even my worst enemy.

We're not going to come and take your guns away, we're not going to eliminate your freedom, we're not going to wreck the economy (at least not more than it's already been wrecked, we might even fix it), we're not going to open up the doors and let the terrorists come flooding in, and we sure aren't going to get us involved in stupid and illegal wars in the Middle East. All we want is health care for all, peace, tolerance for different races and different sexual preferences, fair wages for all, and a clean environment. Are these really such unreasonable demands?

Well regardless, one of the things about Obama that inspires me is his willingness to look beyond divisions and reach out to the other side. So instead of gloating, let me just extend my condolences on McCain's loss. He's a brave man, I just think he's rather out of touch. But like I said, many of your fears regarding Obama's candidacy will turn out to be unfounded. And if Obama ever was to become the kind of president some of you think he will, then I will be the first to oppose him, and I'll march against him as well. If any of you need advice on how to protest or commit civil disobedience, I'll be happy to help. I've been doing this a long time. One opposition fighter to another, LOL.

Anyways, I hope we can move past these deep divisions that have occured and move on to rebuilding our economy, finding ways to stop suffocating ourselves with greehouse gasses, and repairing America's image in the world. I must apologize for the fact that I've given some of your bretheren such a hard time with some of my actions over the years. You all gave just as good as you got, if it makes you feel any better. Sometimes...a little too good. That tear gas and pepper spray you have, well, it stings like a mother. But looking back on things, I do believe that I was in the right to have done the things that I did. Sorry if that offends you. So while I regret making your day all that much more difficult, I don't regret aything I did. I'm quite proud of it actually.

Anyways, I hope that if you do consider yourself a Republican and did support Bush during these years, that maybe in the future you won't back leaders that are in such a rush to take us to war. War should always be a last result, and lately, our country has been making it a first result. And this is how we've ended up: broke, bankrupt, bleeding, and until two weeks ago, hated around the world. We have been so arrogant, so selfish, so obnoxiously stupid, it's a wonder we're in as good of shape as we are. But I'd rather not focus on the past. We've got a future to build. Hopefully it's one we can build together.

Anyways, that's about all from me for now. Once again, stay safe, much love to y'all. And peace, to us all.

Downtown Hound