Leader

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

What do you think of antiwar protesters?

Collapse

300x250 Mobile

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    It is interesting I came across this thread just now...just had a tragic incident here in Iraq, so thought I oughta pipe in. Just for background...I'm in the middle of my second tour here with the National Guard...back home I'm a LEO with about 3.5 years in.
    First of all, what I think about anti-war protestors... I think that even if they don't really intend to, they cast a shadow over the memory of the sacrifice that thousands have made here - at best. I don't think any protestor has room to say they "respect the troops and the sacrifice they make." Being in this war becomes a part of your identity, like it or not, and seeing it protested makes it seems what you have done and been through counts for nothing in the eyes of the people you fought to protect.
    Worse still are those who accost soldiers because of their service. You may picture us as "baby killers," "tyrants," or something equally as evil. You will never see what we have gone through for our country, or the people of this country. You will never see the heroic efforts to rescue innocent civilians caught up in terrorist actions. You will never stand on scorched pavement, feeling the lump in your throat and refusing to break down as you look at the remenants of toys and shoes of children who have been virtually disentegrated by the blast of a random car bomb. You don't have to like what we do - just remember we do it so you don't have to.
    Worst of the worst are those who attend soldier's funerals to protest...I can only imagine how they fallen warrior's families must feel to see the memory of their loved one marred by the presence of those heartless people.
    Before you start speaking about how "your" government has done horrible things...you should remember there was once a dictator and murderer named Saddam who ruled Iraq. He WAS the government. He needed to be removed, period. I only wish action had been taken sooner. A more evil person you would be hard pressed to find. During my first tour, I worked with numerous members of the (then) new Iraqi National Guard. Many of them told me they wanted to serve in the ING because of things Saddam had done to them personally, or their families and loved ones while he was in power.
    One ING soldier told me he was once playing soccer (national pastime!) in a field near a bridge that Saddam and his entorouge were crossing. One of Saddam's men approached the soccer players and told them Saddam didn't want them in that particular field. The friend of the man I spoke to asked Saddam's crony why they couldn't play soccer in a public place such as that field. Saddam's man responded by shooting him in the face, rejoining the rest of Saddam's party and leaving the area.
    Several other ING soldiers told me they had been imprisioned for years for speaking against Saddam's government - some were not freed until Saddam was ousted. So, while you are protesting, saying whatever you want about the President, the Government, and the troops - enjoy. A lot of people have suffered because they did not have the rights you relish. The same war you are protesting is the war that began because of tyranny. Food for thought, right?
    Sorry, just a little emotional at the momment...stepping off my soap box now.
    "Martyr" - just a fancy word for "crappy fighter"

    Comment


    • #62
      Heh, heh. Where do I go KAPSFB? Well, I go a variety of places. On Thursday, when I made my first departure, I had to go see if I could track down my sister, who once again has stopped going to her AA meetings and begun drinking herself into a stupor and then disappearing. A family matter that required my attention, I hope you can understand. I’m sure you LEO’s know too well the story of alcoholism. I have responsibilities and I have things to attend to.

      And yes, actually I have 2 jobs. I’m a part time contractor, and part time computer support specialist. I’m also a full time IT student who graduates in four weeks. Every day I go to school from 9-2, then I go to work, then I come home and do homework. In addition to all of this, I have certification exams to study for. And if you really must know, there’s also a special woman that likes to occupy my time when she can, and that’s where I’ve “been” this weekend. I don’t really spend all of my time posting on the internet, on this board or any others. I do post on other boards sometimes, but only occasionally, as I do here. So I apologize that I disappear between posts every now and again, but my world is quite full right now, and I have to prioritize.

      That is what I do now, but once upon a time, I actually worked for ABC. I have a previous degree in journalism from another school, and was actually considered somebody with a big future in that field, if you can believe that.

      Why did I leave? One day, I came to the conclusion that everything I did, even when I did my job well and made as many people happy as I possibly could, actually fed the things that I always hated, the “unspeakable evil” that I mentioned earlier. What do I mean by that? That’s hard to explain, but I’ll try. But it will require a “rather long explanation” which is what I meant to say to you the other night but was apparently suffering from lack of sleep. My apologies for that and for this essay you’re about to receive, but you did ask, and this is the only answer I know how to give.

      Let me ask you something. You go out every day and you fight crime. You write your tickets, make your arrests and so forth. You have your good days where the job is rewarding, you have your bad days when it’s not. Do you, as a whole, feel as though you are winning? Do you feel like you are driving crime out of existence or winning the war against drugs? Or do you feel more like you are holding the line, that you are the final line between what we have and total anarchy? For me, I realized that I was doing neither. I was in fact having the opposite effect of both. I was making things worse, all the while attempting to do the right thing.

      You’ve undoubtedly heard us liberals talk about how Bush is a dictator. I have no doubt you disagree with that assessment, but that’s not what matters now. What matters is something that one of my old journalism professors once told me. He said that the major difference between the media in a democracy and the media in a dictatorship isn’t that one is free and independent while the other is not. The major difference is that in a dictatorship, the government really doesn’t care if you believe the media or not. What they care about, is that you keep you mouth shut. Pretty much everybody in the final days of the Soviet Union knew that their media was full of lies, but as long as they never talked about it, all was well as far as the government was concerned.

      In a democracy though, in order to get the people to support an agenda, they have to control what you think. You can say whatever you want, you have that right. But what do the people think about? Who decides what makes the evening news, so to speak? Our media is saturated with stories of celebrities, crime, accidents, war, and the exploits of the wealthy. Sometimes, stories of real significance do appear, but they are often quickly buried and forgotten when the next big story hits. Do you ever step back, and look at what all this information is really telling you? I began to, and the answer I came up with was one that was both heartbreaking and very liberating at the same time.

      The conclusion I came up with was that nothing of what I did would ever truly matter. The whole system, the whole game, was all really just one big dog and pony show designed to keep us amused, distracted, hypnotized, mesmerized, and most of all, terrified. That no matter what I ever did as a journalist, or what you will ever do as an LEO, or what a soldier ever does on the battlefield, ultimately, those that run the show will never let it get better for the masses of people. Not as a group. It will fluctuate, the pendulum shifts, sometimes the economy is strong and other times it is weak like now, people do a little better or worse, but ultimately the game never changes. There’s always the crime neighborhoods, the rich neighborhoods, the big bad evil overseas that we must send young men to die to defeat, the murders, the tragedies, and the follies of the rich and famous to keep our minds occupied and to keep us from really looking at what makes this all happen.
      Have you ever heard of a Marine general named Smedley Butler? He was a Marine Corps General that will likely never be given his just due by history. But in a nutshell, he saved America from fascism, and quite possibly the world.

      In 1934, in an event unknown to many Americans of today, there was actually a plot for a military takeover of the United States Government, financed by Wall Street. Their plan was to march on Washington with 500,000 troops composed of displaced veterans and take control. They asked General Butler to lead to charge, because at the time, he was the most decorated marine in U.S. History. Well, the good general told on them. An inquiry made, it was found that the coup plot was genuine, yet no charges were ever filed, and it has been largely forgotten by U.S. History.

      Why am I telling you this? And what does it have to do with what we’re talking about? Well, one of the men involved in the coup plot was none other than Prescott Bush, George W. Bush’s grandfather. Here’s a few excerpts from story about it in Harper’s magazine and a link to the complete story below.

      “In November 1934, federal investigators uncovered an amazing plot involving some two dozen senior businessmen, a good many of them Wall Street financiers, to topple the government of the United States and install a fascist dictatorship. Roth’s novel is developed from several strands of this factual account; he assumed the plot is actually carried out, whereas in fact an alert FDR shut it down but stopped short of retaliatory measures against the plotters. A key element of the plot involved a retired prominent general who was to have raised a private army of 500,000 men from unemployed veterans and who blew the whistle when he learned more of what the plot entailed. The plot was heavily funded and well developed and had strong links with fascist forces abroad. A story in the New York Times and several other newspapers reported on it, and a special Congressional committee was created to conduct an investigation. The records of this committee were scrubbed and sealed away in the National Archives, where they have only recently been made available.
      The Congressional committee kept the names of many of the participants under wraps and no criminal action was ever brought against them. But a few names have leaked out. And one is Prescott Bush, the grandfather of the incumbent president. Prescott Bush was of course deep into the business of the Hamburg-America Lines, and had tight relations throughout this period with the new Government that had come to power in Germany a year earlier under Chancellor Aldoph Hitler. It appears that Bush was to have formed a key liaison for the group with the new German government.
      Prescott Bush, of course, went on to service as a U.S. Senator from Connecticut, and his son, George H.W. Bush emerged from World War II as a hero.”
      http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/07/hbc-90000651

      So, Dubya’s granddaddy was involved in a plot that eventually became known as “The Business Plot” to take over the country and install a fascist regime.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

      Prescott Bush had numerous business activities in Nazi Germany.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004...secondworldwar

      Had these men ever succeeded in their plans, the United States might very well have entered the second world war…on the side of the Axis. But thanks to Smedley Butler, it never happened. What became of the general? Well, he went on to write, “War is a Racket,” in which he expressed his views that ultimately, war is waged to make the rich richer, and the powerful more powerful. These are his words.

      “WAR is a racket. It always has been.

      It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

      A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes.
      In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows.

      How many of these war millionaires shouldered a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dug-out? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them parried a bayonet thrust of an enemy? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?
      Out of war nations acquire additional territory, if they are victorious. They just take it. This newly acquired territory promptly is exploited by the few – the selfsame few who wrung dollars out of blood in the war. The general public shoulders the bill.

      And what is this bill?

      This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones. Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Depression and all its attendant miseries. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations.”
      http://www.lexrex.com/enlightened/ar...risaracket.htm

      He even went so far as to call himself a “gangster for capitalism, because ultimately, he realized that all the battles and struggles he’d ever waged were only done so to make the world safe for American corporate interests.

      “I spent thirty-three years and four months in active service in the country's most agile military force, the Marines. I served in all ranks from second Lieutenant to Major General. And during that period I spent most of my time being a high-class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

      I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all members of the military profession I never had an original thought until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of the higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

      Thus I helped make Mexico, and especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenue in. I helped in the raping of half-a-dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers and Co. in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras "right" for American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

      During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. I was rewarded with honors, medals, and promotion. Looking back on it, I feel that I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate a racket in three city districts. The Marines operated on three continents.”

      Major General Smedley Darlington Butler (July 30, 1881 - June 21, 1940) was at the time of his death the most decorated U.S. Marine in history. He was twice the recipient of the Medal of Honor, one of only nineteen to be so honored.”

      http://www.doublestandards.org/butler2.html

      Now if these words had come from me, you would likely dismiss them as the rantings of a confused leftist. But these came from a man who at the time had been the most decorated Marine in the history of the corps. The situation of war is that it is, and always has been, an enterprise waged for the benefit of a few at the expense of the many. Bush’s family has always had a lust for power and a disdain for civilian authority. And not just him, although I do think he’s a much worse offender than any president we’ve had in recent history or maybe ever. They are in it to make money, and soldiers and civilians are the ones that pay for it. They have always been that way, and they will always be that way. And they are not alone.

      Prescott Bush helped build the Nazi war machine which many Americans then died to destroy. His grandson helped fund the Taliban.

      http://www.vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1605

      Bush gave the Taliban $43 million dollars in aid in the early days of his administration. Before 9-11, but long after the U.S.S. Cole had been attacked by Al Queda. Long after American embassies in Africa had been attacked. Long after they had been harboring Osama Bin laden. How much of that money went into killing American servicemen? In Iraq, Halliburton had more than $73 million in investment in Iraq throughout the 90’s, when Dick Cheney was in control.

      “UNITED NATIONS, June 23 (UPI) -- Halliburton Co., the oil company that was headed by Vice President Dick Cheney, signed contracts with Iraq worth $73 million through two subsidiaries while he was at its helm, the Washington Post reported.

      During last year's presidential campaign, Cheney said Halliburton did business with Libya and Iran through foreign subsidiaries, but maintained he had imposed a "firm policy" against trading with Iraq.

      "Iraq's different," the Post quoted him as saying.

      Oil industry executives and confidential U.N. records showed, however, that Halliburton held stakes in two companies that signed contracts to sell more than $73 million in oil production equipment and spare parts to Iraq while Cheney was chairman and chief executive officer, the Post reported.”

      http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/...24/80648.shtml

      Previously in this thread, somebody implied that if I haven’t been to Iraq myself, how can I really know what’s going on? Well, I can’t know what’s going on directly on the ground. I don’t know what it’s like to be shot at, to run through a hail of fire with heavy gear on in the 130 degree heat, or But I do know one thing, that the Iraq War was planned long before 9-11, as far back as 1998, when Clinton was still president. A neoconservative think tank, known as The Project for a New American Century, conceived of the idea on the basis that America’s ability to project its power would be vital for American security in the new century. You see I read that as, America’s ability to control the resources of the planet will be great for the people that are in power.

      “In relation to the Persian Gulf, citing particularly Iraq and Iran, Rebuilding America's Defenses states that "while the unresolved conflict in Iraq provides the immediate justification [for U.S. military presence], the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein" and "Over the long term, Iran may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests in the Gulf as Iraq has. And even should U.S.-Iranian relations improve, retaining forward-based forces in the region would still be an essential element in U.S. security strategy given the longstanding American interests in the region."[21]

      The report also states:

      "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor"
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...erican_Century

      Isn’t that interesting? The only way they thought they could ever get the American people to support such a policy was to have an attack on the United States of such a size and scale that Americans would thirst for blood, and tolerate things they would ordinarily never tolerate.

      I remember after the Iraq War supposedly “ended” the first time, when Bush dressed up in a flight suit and landed on an aircraft carrier and proclaimed “Mission Accomplished.” There was immediate talk of moving into Syria. That never happened due to the insurgency, but Iran is still on the list. So, Iraq, Iran, Syria, and Afghanistan. Look at the map, they’re all adjacent to each other. Put a pipeline through all of them, after they have all been conquered, and you have a whole lot of oil. All theirs. I won’t say ours, because ultimately it isn’t ours. Gas keeps going up, and so do the maximum profits of the oil corporations, where Bush and his cronies come from.

      They will tell you that it’s about fighting evil, fighting for freedom, or making the world a better place, but ultimately, it’s the same thing General Smedley Butler said more than half a century ago. It’s a racket. How many have to die for it? Who did we choose to lead Afghanistan? Hamid Karzai, a former Unocal spokesman.

      So, how can I call it all, “unspeakable evil?” What is unspeakable evil? What does one have to do to earn that title? Do you have to kill 2 or maybe 3 people horribly? What if you kill a million? Is it unspeakable evil then? How many have to die, lose their limbs, suffer horrible nightmares for the rest of their lives, or watch their loved ones never come home, for the profit of a few?

      To me, “unspeakable evil” is really nothing more than the total absence of love. Human beings are capable of monstrous and hideous things in their quest for power, but the quest for power is only happening because there is something else missing. And when you view people as merely nothing more than numbers, nothing but inconveniences or tools in a greater plan for economic gain, nothing but “collateral damage” or ‘war casualties” then you have a system that has a total absence of love.

      Do these words hurt you? Or hurt any vets? I’m sorry if they do. You must understand that if you think I see you as “tools” in this system, trust me, I am a far greater tool than you. I was part of the media, the most powerful mind control apparatus in existence. The military’s power, or the power of the police for that matter, lies in the use of force, of whatever varying degree. But the media, we are the ones that convince you that it is necessary to use force. The media took us to war with Iraq, by pumping up the lies about Weapons of Mass Destruction, by ridiculing, marginalizing, and questioning the patriotism of anybody who dared to question it.

      (continued)
      Last edited by Downtown Hound; 08-11-2008, 12:42 PM.

      Comment


      • #63
        Whenever a revolution happens, what is the first thing they seize? The media. The radio stations, the TV stations, the newspapers. The media has more power to influence and dominate than all militaries in the world. It is the very cohesion that holds society together.

        So I guess that’s what I mean when I said that nothing I did as a journalist would ever truly matter. Ultimately, I served the very system that I didn’t support. I would never be allowed to ask questions like these, at least not in a professional capacity. So I left. I gave up my chosen career, one that I had worked very hard to get, because of my beliefs. I have sacrificed something for this war, although I admit, it’s not as much as sacrificing my life or my limbs, but it was something. The freedom that came in doing so, was that I realized that whenever one belief system is destroyed, another one always comes up and takes its place. I now see many possibilities in the world. I no longer believed it is doomed to always having war, or poverty, or even rampant crime. All of those things are tools, employed by the powerful to keep the rest of us subjugated. And the single most common tool they have is the power of fear. They use fear to get you to support them. They create the problem and then provide you with the solution. And the cycle will repeat, over and over again, without hesitation, mercy, or any slowdown, until we the people rise up and tell them we will no longer fight their wars for them.

        That, ladies and gentlemen, officers of the law, soldiers, defenders and protectors of this country, is why I do what I do. Why I will continue to do it. I don’t know how I will, right now I’m really not doing anything much except trying to finish school. But I want you to know that I’m not protesting you. I’m trying to save your lives, and the lives of many others. You will never reap any of the monetary rewards for the war you fought, of which there have been many and will be many more, but you have to bear the burden, the suffering, the horror, all yourselves.

        I came here because I wanted to see what your current attitudes are. I can see we have a long way to go. But if I’ve made you stop and blink, maybe made you think in a new way a little, or maybe just softened the anger or hate in your hearts just a little bit, then my coming here will have been worthwhile. I don’t disrespect the law, or soldiers, or cops. I have in the past, and I’m sorry for that. But ultimately, I think the people behind this war have a vested interest in keeping us apart. They love to divide us into Republican vs. Democrat, Liberal vs. Conservative, soldier vs. pacifist, or cop vs. protester. If I can come here and break down some of those divisions, then it will be a start.
        I’ll make you all a promise. If and when I protest again, I promise to try and behave myself, out of respect for all of you. I will not throw anything at you, I won’t break anything, and I will discourage all others from doing the same. I can’t promise that you will never take me away in cuffs again, but if you do, I promise to comply and take whatever punishment is coming to me willingly.

        Now, I’m really sorry for having made this so long. I hope I won’t be accused of hijacking the thread or using it as a platform for pushing my own views. But I felt that I had to answer the question honestly, completely, and authoritatively. I’ll come back at some time and read your replies, maybe I’ll respond to them, but I can’t promise when, I do have other responsibilities. Until then, much love to y’all. Stay safe on the street, be good to each other, and most of all, peace. To us all.

        Downtown Hound
        Last edited by Downtown Hound; 08-11-2008, 12:59 PM.

        Comment


        • #64
          Put whatever cuffs on me you want blackhorse. The more, the merrier, I say.

          Comment


          • #65
            You are taking my opinion seriously, Group29, whether you realize it or not. If you weren't, you wouldn't even bother responding to me. Nor would any of the rest of you. That doesn't mean you'll take my opinion to heart, but apparently, you all find me very difficult to ignore. This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. I honestly never expected it to get this long, or be quite this controversial.

            Comment


            • #66
              11Bto5-0
              On behalf of my self and other law enforcement brothers & sisters here on O.com thank you for you're service to our great nation!
              The war never ends bro. you're community needs you soon.
              Take care and stay safe!
              Ralph8119
              A Little Something Else For Those 60's & 70's Music Lovers On Line!
              sigpic
              http://www.myfreenetradio.com/listen70s.asx

              A Cool Website On History In Photos Of The New York City Police Department!
              http://www.policeny.com/home.html

              Policelink!
              http://policelink.monster.com/member/Ralph8119

              Inside The New York City Police Academy!
              http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/html/pr/videos.shtml

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Downtown Hound View Post
                You are taking my opinion seriously, Group29, whether you realize it or not. If you weren't, you wouldn't even bother responding to me. Nor would any of the rest of you. That doesn't mean you'll take my opinion to heart, but apparently, you all find me very difficult to ignore. This thread is the gift that keeps on giving. I honestly never expected it to get this long, or be quite this controversial.
                Maybe, that's the difference between police officers and the people you normally hang out with. Enlightening, isn't it?

                Oh, yeah. One more thing. Paragraphs are your friends.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Sorry about that Group29. I originally wrote this in MS Word, and then cut and pasted it over. It seems my formatting was lost in translation, so to speak. Problem fixed.
                  Last edited by Downtown Hound; 08-11-2008, 12:59 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Downtown Hound View Post
                    I came here because I wanted to see what your current attitudes are. I can see we have a long way to go. But if I’ve made you stop and blink, maybe made you think in a new way a little, or maybe just softened the anger or hate in your hearts just a little bit, then my coming here will have been worthwhile.
                    You didn't. It wasn't.
                    Two people can keep a secret if one of them is dead.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Here it is, Plain and simple for you.

                      No one cares what your opinion of the war is. Think what you want, and say what you want. The moment you decide that your right to voice your opinion trumps other people's right to public safety (Violent/Disrespectful Protests) You have lost your message and are dead wrong.

                      I read about 15 lines into your inane drivil and realized I was looking at an obviously pre-prepared statement you have no doubt thrown out onto any number of places on the internet.

                      If you have a point, get to it faster. I only have so much time to read before I have to get back to opressing and killing.

                      M-11
                      “All men dream...... But not equally..
                      Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it is vanity;
                      but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
                      for they act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible.....”

                      TE Lawrence

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        I see you are an ardent believer in what you write. I do think you make a fine argument that will doubtlessly convince a lot of people. I however see little real logic in your argument as a whole. You did not prove a single thing you stated. Instead what you do is hypothesize and use unrelated information, garnered from credible unrelated sources to make it seem like you have a valid theory. At no point do you connect the dots in any meaningful way. Instead you play to your audience by using a military hero to disparage a relative of the president in hopes that we lend you credence by your use of Smedley Butlers good name. I think not my not so suave friend.

                        I first notice you claim the media to be a conservative outlet that backs up of all things the Republican president. I do not think you could fool anyone who has watched the news regularly in the past 8 years of that. If there were any proof of what you say they would be first in line to headline it and insist on the beginning of the impeachment process. If the media is not liberal enough for your taste, move to France, were I am sure you will be accepted with open arms.

                        What in the world does what some ones grandpa did have to do with them, other than being related? If your grandpa was a Nazi, womanizer, abuser, drunk, or murderer, would that make you the same or in league with him in some way? I am even lending you credibility here and assuming the charges you have leveled or concurred with have merit in the least. I have no doubt rich people pull strings and effect outcomes and even profit from disasters at times.

                        However I will not lend credence to an unproven conspiracy theory that has no doubt been investigated thoroughly by GW’s enemies years ago. I am glad you have conviction but I spoke to a guy sleeping in the park last night who was convinced I had just shot someone and he could smell my gun smoking as we spoke. He really believed it and I could not have convinced him other wise, but he was non the less incorrect and quiet insane.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          The history of General Butler is very well covered in Unspeakable evil school (also know as Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego) it's right in between raping and pilaging.
                          I think Jack said it best in A Few Good Men. "I have no use for the use for the man who rises and sleeps under the protection I provide and the questions the manner in which I provide it."
                          To suggest to me or anyone in this board that the US gov't carried out or at the very least let the attacks on 9-11 occur is insulting to our intelligence. You have lost all credibility to me. I have spent the last 6 years of my life in the Corps and in Law Enforcement. If you would prefer a less evil country then I suggest you find one and move there. While I find your comments disturbing and offensive, I believe with all my heart you have the right to say them. I disagree with them completely but I would fight to the death for you to have them.
                          I am done speaking to you however as for everyone else on this board I suggest you do the same. He wants attention I say we starve him of it.
                          good day sir.


                          Hobbsie

                          "War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
                          ----John Stuart Mill

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Downtown Hound View Post
                            What do you think of anti-war protesters?
                            ?

                            THEY SUCK

                            I'm retired, from both LE and Military (Reg Army and NG)

                            I dont have to be PC, I also have the right to free speech and I say they SUCK.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Downtown Hound View Post
                              Actually, I do understand that men do unspeakable evil in a quest for power. I watch my own government do it everyday. But thanks for the good wishes nevertheless.

                              Take care.
                              Am I to understand that Dubya and some of the boys have gassed some innocent citizens of our fair country ? Invaded neighbors to loot and pillage ? Sent out squads of troops w/impunity to drag government dissenters from their homes in the wee hours of the morning to be tied up, beat up, lit up and hacked up ? Defied UN sanctions and inspections ? Lobbed ICBM's at innocent non combatant countries and civilian populations cause they didn't have [email protected]@ enough to get the job done on their own and wish to pull everyone into the pit of evil subterfuge ?

                              How would Barb and Jenna's personal weapons cache's stand up to Usay and Uday's ? Probably some pansy pink little AK with an after market finish that would be banned in NY, but then we've come to expect that.

                              Why aren't I notified of these things ? THATS IT, I'm canceling my subs to Time and the Washington Post. Their both in bed w/ Dubya and minimized his tyranny w/ excuses of he lied but didn't really mean to hurt anyone.

                              Seriously,
                              You do have a right to demonstrate lawfully, but I think you should re evaluate some of your stated positions here young man.

                              In the overall scheme the US govt, local and otherwise treats protests with kid gloves and a lot more patience than is sometimes warranted. Try expanding on the opposition view in Baghdad, Tehran, Tel Aviv, Amman, Beirut, Beijing or Moscow and let me know how it goes for you. Might give you a whole new perspective and appreciation for what you do have and what the government and its other citizens are willing to sacrifice to protect it.

                              I'm not as eloquent but I'm with Pullicords on this.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                I think its great they are willing and able to give up their time to speak out for what they believe in. As long as they keep it peaceful is all I care about so I wont have to go deal with them. Otherwise I pretend they arent even there.
                                Last edited by DeputySC; 08-12-2008, 04:08 PM.

                                Comment

                                MR300x250 Tablet

                                Collapse

                                What's Going On

                                Collapse

                                There are currently 3358 users online. 186 members and 3172 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 26,947 at 08:36 PM on 12-29-2019.

                                Welcome Ad

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X