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What do you think of antiwar protesters?

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  • #16
    Downtown Hound - I respect your point of view, but I consider it very misguided. However, this isn't the time or place to debate that topic.

    I will say it would be a big boost to the "movement" if they acted more like you do, and less like the folks in BD380's pictures.
    For every one hundred men you send us,
    Ten should not even be here.
    Eighty are nothing but targets.
    Nine of them are real fighters;
    We are lucky to have them, they the battle make.
    Ah, but the one. One of them is a warrior.
    And he will bring the others back.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
      I would not ignore it if someone spit on me, a fellow officer, or a service member in my presence!
      Assault charge in TN and I gladly arrest for it, hoping that he/she resists in the process.
      I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by dangerstayback View Post
        What could we have done? I would never lay my hand's on any civilian while in uniform (as much I would of liked to). Basically it played out like this: stepped off the plane started through to terminal to leave was approached by a civilian who started his anti-everything speech we kindly declined to listen proceed to walk away and then he spit on my buddy's back and ran off.
        A woman spat on a soldier at Syracuse airport and tried to back track real fast...

        http://blog.syracuse.com/news/2007/0...ns_why_sh.html

        Comment


        • #19
          Downtown Hound- I believe the question you initially posed to the members of the forum "What do you think of the protesters" was answered properly. Unfortunately, you then hijacked your own thread and demonstrated the kind of childish thought process that's come to be associated with your movement. Your initial question(s) dealt with the issue of protest, lawful and unlawful. After we told you our feelings and why it's so important to separate them from the proper application of our duties, you used the opportunity to justify committing violations of law. Your rationalization was based on a series of lies and half truths commonly found among your associates, that are an insult when hurled against those regularly sworn to tell the truth.

          Iraq attacked our allies and was attacked in turn by the United States and a coalition of forces, that ceased firing only upon agreement that Iraq would abide by a set of binding conditions. Included among them, that it would halt it's weapons of mass destruction programs. Whether it did this in reality or not doesn't matter, that nation's leader (Sadam) decided it was in his best interest to convince the world he "might" still have WMDs. By failing to allow unrestricted inspection (as agreed) and other hostile acts (included repeatedly firing on US overflights), the UN and our own people (through Congress) authorized the use of force (ie: war).

          Twenty-twenty hindsight is something LEOs are used to. If we search a location based upon probable cause and fail to find evidence we're looking for, it doesn't mean we didn't have probable cause. If we use force against a suspect we believe is going to shoot us, it isn't murder if what we honestly believe was a weapon turned out to be something else. Sometimes people or nations are forced to act in their own best interests, even out of mistaken belief. Failure to do so, can and does result in as many or more fatalities as responding properly. Look no further than Rawanda, where systematic genocide has taken even more lives and continues because the "world opinion" you care so much about prefers to turn it's collective back on the victims. The reason: China profits financially through the genocide and other countries don't, so nothing is done.

          You talk about Iraq as though it's just now suffering due to the evils that America brought upon it. I guess the fact that it was a country Shias, run by the terror campaign of a small minority of Sunis doesn't matter. As much as they might want and even deserve the right to revenge considering what they've been through, if we came in and changed things, we certainly have an obligation to ensure the changes are for the better. We assisted in the overthrow of the Russian government in Afghanistan, did nothing to stabilize what was left there and look what happened later. Democracy didn't matter to the "world community" there (like in South Africa) perhaps because Sadam's oil money meant more to our "allies" like France, Germany, Russia and China who made billions doing business with that country after the first Gulf war. Even the "peace loving" General Secretary of the UN got in on the sweet deal, all the while letting Sadam continue to violate the cease fire agreement.

          This wasn't supposed to be a political exercise, but when you bring up Halliburton like it didn't exist during the Clinton presidency it's more than a little insulting. Clinton used Halliburton to rebuild the infrastructure of what was once Yugoslavia for the same reasons Bush did: They were the most efficient company in existence to do the job. They are still in Europe, as are our troops who incidentally killed Bosnians, Serbs, Croats and who knows how many others using deadly force in a conflict that also never threatened American lives.

          Your being a hypocrite isn't surprising considering how easy it was for you to write off the question posed about how one can justify violating our country's laws during "peace protests", while strictly enforcing the same laws during "abortion protests." Peace officers believe both sides on each argument have an obligation to protest within the law, so they don't abridge the rights of others. Those too self-righteous in their own beliefs, just rationalize.

          Finally, you express your belief that you've matured and want to build relationships not on "lies", but "respect." If that's really true, you should look a lot closer at those you've been so quick to quote. Lies are no better than half-truths and those calling our government (and in turn the police) greedy killers, are no different from the guy described above who spat on the returning soldier's back, then fled. (BTW dangerstayback, if possible I'd have grabbed that guy and charged him with battery! No one has the right to spit on another person, especially a service member.)
          Last edited by pulicords; 08-06-2008, 01:01 PM.
          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

          Comment


          • #20
            What Pulicords just said. Excellent post.
            For every one hundred men you send us,
            Ten should not even be here.
            Eighty are nothing but targets.
            Nine of them are real fighters;
            We are lucky to have them, they the battle make.
            Ah, but the one. One of them is a warrior.
            And he will bring the others back.

            Comment


            • #21
              As a police officer, we respect the fact that you have the right to think whatever you want. Doesn't bother me. The part that bugs me is that the DNC in NYC was completely off the hinges. The amount of crime and violence towards people who think differently was totally uncalled for.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by pulicords View Post
                I would not ignore it if someone spit on me, a fellow officer, or a service member in my presence!

                i'd stomp the doo doo out someone for spitting on me

                they could fire me, tomorrow, but TODAY i be whoopin some hippy butt

                Comment


                • #23
                  Pulicords your right on the money.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hmmm...

                    I was trying to answer the questions you posed to me in your post. You spoke against civil disobedience. I can understand why, given your job. You also asked me the question, "What kind of individual are you?" I am one who believes that civil disobedience might be justified under certain circumstances. I then attempted to to explain my position by relating to you the world situation as I see it, and why it could motivate me to commit a similar act. I really wasn't attempting to hijack the thread or start a political war. So I'll make you a peace offering, because ultimately, that's why I'm here. I could respond to your points about Iraq and it's long troubled history with America, about the rationality for war with WMD. But I'm not really sure this is the correct forum to do this, and as Sgt.Elmer said, this is not the time and place to debate this. If you want to, I will continue, and we can either do it here or in another forum. If not, then that's cool, and I will wish you well and hope that you have great health and many happy, safe years. What do you say?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I think a person is smart and capable of intelligent debate. I think "people" are stupid and prone to mob mentality. Their point is often lost in the method of delivery.
                      sigpic

                      I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Smurfette_76,

                        You make a valid point there. I'm curious, as an officer of the law, what do you feel is an effective method of delivery?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Why does my opinion have to be that as a LEO? Why not my personal opinion? Anytime you have to shove your opinions down the collective throats of others, you've lost the message before it's ever heard. It really doesn't matter what the topic is, no?
                          sigpic

                          I don't agree with your opinion, but I respect its straightforwardness in terms of wrongness.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Downtown Hound
                            What do you think of antiwar protesters?
                            Generally speaking, my ever so humble personal opinion is that they are a bit on the stupid side.

                            Hey, ..... you asked.

                            To expand a little ........

                            Originally posted by Downtown Hound
                            As of now, at this moment in time, A LOT of people around the world hate America. Even a sizable portion of its own citizens. I myself do not hate America. I love her passionately. Which is why I feel so incredibly disappointed in her. You know, when you're in a room full of people, and an overwhelmingly majority of them don't like you, maybe it's time for a little self-reflection. There was once a time when we were the most loved and respected people on Earth. But a lot has changed. Our invasion of Iraq has done more to change that than any one single thing we have done in the last 50 years.
                            Ummmm .... we don't wage wars to be liked. We wage wars to protect, to correct, to defend, and to win. I personally don't care if some people in other contries, or even this one, dislike or hate America. Anywhere in the world, when the crap hits the fan, when evil is abound, and innocents are involved .... the one person they most welcome seeing coming over the horizon is a grunt toting an M-16 wearing the Stars and Bars.
                            Originally posted by Downtown Hound
                            As for the idea that "some" antiwar protesters don't feel that the Iraqis could or should have the same freedom we do, I think that's oversimplified. All of us would love for the Iraqi people to have freedom, peace, prosperity, and security. No one more than me, because I feel an incredible sense of guilt and shame for the horrors that my country has put them through.
                            I pitty you then.
                            Originally posted by Downtown Hound
                            But my question is this, how can you give somebody freedom by taking away that most fundamental aspect of freedom: the right of self determination? There are many kinds of freedom, the right to openly speak out against your government without fear of reprisal is only one of them. There's the freeedom of knowing that you can walk down the street and not worry that's this is going to be your last day ... etc
                            All those rights, those freedoms, they were purchased with blood by men of clear vision that any second could be their last ... and you will never have a guarantee that the next won't be yours as long as you draw a breath.

                            It must be nice to be young, naive, and so idealistic. When you are young, to be so idealistic is often inevitable. With age comes experience and with that, you'll loose it, and some day understand that as long as men can do unspeakable evil in a quest for power, wars will be waged.

                            It's the nature of the beast when the planet is populated by so many billions, each with a free will and a different sense of entitlement, expectation, desire, need, greed, hatred, love, and etc ...

                            You'll learn in time (with luck, "stupid" isn't always a terminal condition) .... but in the meantime .... please keep your protests peaceful, lawful, and mindful of the rights of others .... and we won't have any problems.

                            Hey, John Voight came around with time! There's hope yet.

                            Later then ........
                            Last edited by t150vsuptpr; 08-07-2008, 12:14 AM.
                            "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

                            "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

                            >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

                            Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Actually, I do understand that men do unspeakable evil in a quest for power. I watch my own government do it everyday. But thanks for the good wishes nevertheless.

                              Take care.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                You might want to consider just who and what was responsible for your right to peacibly assemble and protest against war. It wasn't anti-war protests that gave you that right, it was a war.

                                I don't know how old you are, but at some point, you may look back and realize that. I get the feeling that anti-war protesters all wish we lived in a perfect world, and that their protesing war will get us there.

                                Well guess what? We all want to live in a perfect world, but while you are wishing for it, and asking for it, some people are actually going out and risking their very lives, and not just a night in jail, to try and get that more perfect world.

                                I know you probably mean well, but understand why many of us just don't take you seriously when you think you care as much about an issue as people who are willing to give their lives for their beliefs on the other side. Be honest, now. You don't care that much, do you?

                                As for protesting, as long as you do it peacibly, and don't think you can physically attack me or others without repercussion, my feeling is that better men than yourself, gave their lives, so that you could stand up and complain. I would not dishonor their sacrifice by stopping you from doing that, because no matter how much you protest war, the very fact that you have the right to protest is an affirmation of war, and warriors, and of their sacrifice, as an ends to justice and human rights.

                                And, yes, I know you don't see it that way. It doesn't matter.
                                Last edited by Group 29; 08-07-2008, 08:18 AM.

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