Any significance to orange as gang color?

[rubyrose]

I have received a PM from a forum member providing information that is extremely helpful.

What is most helpful about the information is that, because of that information, I now know that a neighbor across the street (and possibly my downstairs neighbor) cannot be trusted. Both of these women over the last two years have befriended me and I have trusted them with information I now know I should not have.

Thanks to the PM I got answers I can use to HELP investigators understand why this situation is as serious as it is.

See, here's the thing -- one of the things I have learned is that I know more about local gangs than several of the officers and emergency communications personnel I have been in contact with.

When I felt threatened this afternoon I called 911 and by the time I got through explaining to the operator exactly why what has been transpiring over the last several days is indeed indicative of a serious problem, the persons in question had left the scene. So I said ok, I want to file a report. The officer with whom I filed the report (also over the phone) ALSO could not comprehend the significance and I had to repeatedly remind him that the only reason I was seeing this overall situation as a threat was because a homicide investigator had TOLD me that it was. Not to mention that the Chief had said so also and had assigned a platoon supervisor to work with me on the problem.

I spoke to the Chief at 3pm today and have been waiting for the assigned person to call me back. If I walked into a police station they would have told me to go home and wait for that call.

For my protection I have also discussed the matter with a friend of mine who is a former watch commander and now runs curriculum at the academy. And the last two nights I've had a friend sitting with me on my porch -- former corrections officer, 6'5", 300+ lbs, and the "right color" if you catch my drift.

I don't believe that .44 is going to do me as much good as you think it will. The four bodies in this situation -- all of them had guns. Fat lot of good that did them.

While it affords some protection over not having one, in this situation the only way it would be any real protection is if I went walking around carrying the gun in my hand prepared to point it at anyone who seemed threatening. But you CAN'T do that, and there are good reasons you can't do that.

I don't believe these guys intend to hurt me, they only want me to BELIEVE they will hurt me so I will stop doing my "good citizen" work. Nonetheless, as the homicide investigator insisted, I still have to have the PD informed every step of the way because the guys we are dealing with are no strangers to violence.

Having this bit of information that makes it clear there are two people I trusted before and can no longer ALONE improves my safety. Without this information I could let slip something that could do me in.

So, all things considered, posting here worked out very well for me. Very well indeed.

If you have a situation involving possible death or serious injury to yourself or anyone else, what in the world are you doing seeking advice from a bunch of anonymous internet posters spread all over the planet? Even if you are waiting for a call-back you should be waiting with your back to a wall with a loaded .44 in your hand; or at a police station if that's more to your liking. I would suggest seeking help from local authorities, if you can trust them enough to tell them all the details and facts.

[InfiniteTeach]

See, here's the thing -- one of the things I have learned is that I know more about local gangs than several of the officers and emergency communications personnel I have been in contact with.

I'm glad to hear that posting here has helped you out quite a bit. But, seriously, if you know so much more than the officers do maybe it is time for you to sit down with them and actually share that information (which it sounds like you are about to do).

Good luck with your issue and I hope it works out well for you.

[madchiken]

I have received a PM from a forum member providing information that is extremely helpful.

What is most helpful about the information is that, because of that information, I now know that a neighbor across the street (and possibly my downstairs neighbor) cannot be trusted. Both of these women over the last two years have befriended me and I have trusted them with information I now know I should not have.

Thanks to the PM I got answers I can use to HELP investigators understand why this situation is as serious as it is.

See, here's the thing -- one of the things I have learned is that I know more about local gangs than several of the officers and emergency communications personnel I have been in contact with.

When I felt threatened this afternoon I called 911 and by the time I got through explaining to the operator exactly why what has been transpiring over the last several days is indeed indicative of a serious problem, the persons in question had left the scene. So I said ok, I want to file a report. The officer with whom I filed the report (also over the phone) ALSO could not comprehend the significance and I had to repeatedly remind him that the only reason I was seeing this overall situation as a threat was because a homicide investigator had TOLD me that it was. Not to mention that the Chief had said so also and had assigned a platoon supervisor to work with me on the problem.

I spoke to the Chief at 3pm today and have been waiting for the assigned person to call me back. If I walked into a police station they would have told me to go home and wait for that call.

For my protection I have also discussed the matter with a friend of mine who is a former watch commander and now runs curriculum at the academy. And the last two nights I've had a friend sitting with me on my porch -- former corrections officer, 6'5", 300+ lbs, and the "right color" if you catch my drift.

I don't believe that .44 is going to do me as much good as you think it will. The four bodies in this situation -- all of them had guns. Fat lot of good that did them.

While it affords some protection over not having one, in this situation the only way it would be any real protection is if I went walking around carrying the gun in my hand prepared to point it at anyone who seemed threatening. But you CAN'T do that, and there are good reasons you can't do that.

I don't believe these guys intend to hurt me, they only want me to BELIEVE they will hurt me so I will stop doing my "good citizen" work. Nonetheless, as the homicide investigator insisted, I still have to have the PD informed every step of the way because the guys we are dealing with are no strangers to violence.

Having this bit of information that makes it clear there are two people I trusted before and can no longer ALONE improves my safety. Without this information I could let slip something that could do me in.

So, all things considered, posting here worked out very well for me. Very well indeed.

So the chief and homicide investigator know all about the local gangs, but the officers working the streets don't know about them?

[rubyrose]

The officers know SOME. Not nearly enough.

TWO sector crime prevention officers I spoke to apparently were unaware of the gang affiliations of a young man who was recently convicted of two homicides and another shooting, plus the gang affiliation of another shooter who was recently arrested for killing the convicted shooter's brother. That was also news to the 311 (non emergency police) officer I spoke with. As well as officers on the street with whom I have spoken.

Sad, but unfortunately true. I'm on a campaign now to question why this is the case.

Not to mention there's been some serious drug business going down right in front of cameras what are supposed to be closely monitored by the PD. My guess is that things were calm for a while after the cameras were up, so they got complacent. A lot of arrests were made in the beginning, then the thugs figured out how far those cameras could reach. Then after a long period of calm, they tested them out by putting kids on the corner just hanging out. Here if you are hanging out on a known drug corner, thats a legitimate stop and talk. I am guessing that after no police showed up for that (different pattern from before), they figured the "coast was clear"




ap

So the chief and homicide investigator know all about the local gangs, but the officers working he streets don't know about them?

[rubyrose]

I have every intention of doing so.

It wasn't until Weds. night I figured out how little many officers seem to understand about the gang activities. It also wasn't until last week (when I sat through a murder trial and later spoke to the investigator) and then did some research on MySpace, then connected the dots with more general information I have about local gangs, that I figured things out myself.

It's not my job to educate patrol, but rather the job of the powers that be. I intend to be pushing that -- privately with my personal contacts in administration.

Because we have had a huge slew of retirements in the last few years, accompanied by an even larger slew of new recruits, it is likely that the relevant information has fallen through the cracks.

I will, of course, speak to those officers who already know and respect me.

I'm glad to hear that posting here has helped you out quite a bit. But, seriously, if you know so much more than the officers do maybe it is time for you to sit down with them and actually share that information (which it sounds like you are about to do).

Good luck with your issue and I hope it works out well for you.

[rubyrose]

As it turns out (see above) I got what I needed here while waiting for the investigator to return my call. Because the main concern involved having to determine whether I could trust people whom I had relied upon before, it was important to get an answer as soon as possible.

I was feeling threatened by several events and I was thinking of turning to these two supposed friends for help. Now I know better.

Sorry I was not more specific.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions.

X2

Ruby,

I would expect your local LE would have better gang intelligence than what you can get here. Why doesn't your homicide investigator contact the locals him/herself?

[rubyrose]

Update:

I am guessing that the 911 call I made yesterday reporting drug transactions on a nearby corner directly in front of police surveillance cameras that are SUPPOSED to be monitored had some effect last night.

Yesterday I could not sit on my front porch for 2 minutes without a contingent of local thugs doing their slow reconnaissance around my own corner, flashing gang colors, stopping for several minutes and talking loud trash where I could hear it. I made the call about the drug transactions shortly before I was to leave for one of my volunteer activities, and upon my return I found the street dramatically different. The street was virtually empty. This morning I've been here for over an hour and not one incident. The street is back to the same conditions we had shortly after the local bad boyz figured out how far the cameras could reach.

So the threat seems to have diminished. Of course, I will still be cautious.

Thanks to everyone who assisted or tried to assist...aside from the information it is very helpful to have people's best wishes.

[rubyrose]

Further update:

The pièce de résistance (i.e., the most important or remarkable feature) of this morning's "entertainment"...

Yesterday morning my FIRST clue of the seriousness of the situation was when I saw a young man whom I had NEVER seen in saggy pants before walk by with his pants down below his rear and flashing bright red underwear. (He actually looked to be a bit embarrassed — I gather he was doing this on orders.)

All day long subsequent to that I could not be on my porch for five minutes without experiencing countless efforts at intimidation (actions that fall short of actual verbal threats because they know they can be arrested for those).

But as I noted above that dramatically changed when I returned home after being out for volunteer activities on the other side of town (and after I'd made 911 calls about drug transactions in front of the PD camera).

This morning just as I was about to get up from my chair after putting in a couple of hours (I have my laptop so I can work while I sit), in addition to the street being clear that whole time, I saw that very same young man dressed very neatly (he could ALMOST go on a job interview with that look!), and with his pants up where they are supposed to be.

As he passed by me he kept his eyes on the other side of the street until just before he would be out of eyesight. Then he turned his eyes to check quickly. Of course I was staring him down with the meanest expression I could muster. He looked away immediately.

Working with the PD is clearly a heck of a lot more effective than having a gun in my hand, which, if these thugs knew I had, would very likely subject me to a burglary in my absence, not to mention being an "in your face" challenge.

The problem I am up against is that these guys know how to perform intimidating acts that stop short of being something they can get arrested for.

For example, Tuesday morning as I was about to leave for the courthouse (a certain local gang member was to be arraigned that morning on the murder of the brother of the rival gang member who was convicted last week), there was one young man sitting on a bike across the street with a cell phone.

Ok, is that a threat? Potentially (as you will see in a minute), but I cannot act on that. It's not even a 911 call.

As I was walking toward my car (which has to be parked on the street, in a specific spot designated as my handicapped spot), another young man whom I have positively identified as a gang member from his MySpace page (and who has engaged in previous threatening behaviors) comes around the corner and maneuvers his way around so he can pass within a foot of me as I get into my car. (The location of the car in reference to the corner is such that, for him to pass that closely, he would have to purposely maneuver his direction.)

Is that a threat? You bet it is. It's a symbolic threat. He is letting me know that if he had wanted to hurt me at that moment he absolutely could have.

But how do I interpret that in terms of actions to take? No words were spoken, and the guy keeps on walking.

What I did in response was pull out my cell phone and take pictures of them. Now, those pics did not turn out well. But they don't know that. As soon as I started doing that they started high-tailing it away. The guy on the bike most likely was a spotter to let the other guy know when I was coming out my door.

Suppose I did have a CCW and had a gun on me. His passing closely like that is not sufficient for reason for me to pull a gun on him. It is not even sufficient reason for me to use pepper spray. It's not even 911 worthy.

However, at that moment if he wanted to he could EASILY have pulled a gun and shot me in that split second while I was trying to figure out what to do.

So, I could have a gun and still be shot dead.

That's why I keep insisting that my best protection is not a gun, it's my brain, my connections with the PD, and my knowledge of how to work those connections. In fact, there are many ways in which I can see gun ownership as detrimental -- precisely around those issues of having to decide when to use it.

These guys would LOVE to scare me enough so that I will pull a weapon on them. Then they can say I'm just some crazy racist white b***h who thinks all black men are criminals out to hurt her.

This was a stare-down contest. I won this round, thanks to (apparently) the eventual PD response.

Guns are not much use in a stare-down contest, because if you pull a gun (or any other weapon) in a situation like this, you have by that very fact lost the stare-down. If you pull a weapon, you blinked.

***
Incidentally, a friend informed me that the location of the "sag" with the saggy pants has its own set of meanings.

The sn***y dressers (no sags) are top dogs. The lower the sag, the lower the person is on the totem. The ones showing their full rear ends are lowest.

Don't know whether that's true or not (I don't believe anything until I get confirmation from several sources), but something to think about and consider while observing.

***
Again, MANY thanks to those who PM'd me their support and suggestions.

[nuthead]

Ruby, I think you might take the "having a gun" thing a little too hard (maybe bad choice of words, but I couldn't think of a better term). A gun is a tool. Just as a hammer isn't the best tool to loosen or tighten a nut, sometimes a gun isn't the best choice the situation calls for. However, it's better to have all the tools, as it gives you more options. It's why I have an asp and OC spray on my belt with my gun...even though I'm more likely to not need any of them. If guns aren't your "thing", so be it, each to their own. However, it's better to have and not need than to need and not have.

[rubyrose]

Well, my main concern would be that I would not make the best choice as to when to use it. Simply HAVING a gun is not protection unless you know not only HOW but WHEN to use it. To be effective I believe I would need to have some serious training on that. Otherwise it's more likely to do more harm than good.

That's my point. A gun on a well-trained officer (or even a well-trained law-abiding citizen) is an effective tool. A gun on an untrained citizen is just as likely to be detrimental as helpful.

Believe me, I have given serious thought to equipping myself. I already know I start out with an apparently native ability to aim and shoot accurately (at least at a stationary paper target!). However I would not be able to arm myself immediately, much less train. I don't even have the money to purchase and it would take time to get a permit.

The last thing I need is to be arrested on an illegal weapons charge -- or place my LE friends in the position of having to decide what to do about that.

Ruby, I think you might take the "having a gun" thing a little too hard (maybe bad choice of words, but I couldn't think of a better term). A gun is a tool. Just as a hammer isn't the best tool to loosen or tighten a nut, sometimes a gun isn't the best choice the situation calls for. However, it's better to have all the tools, as it gives you more options. It's why I have an asp and OC spray on my belt with my gun...even though I'm more likely to not need any of them. If guns aren't your "thing", so be it, each to their own. However, it's better to have and not need than to need and not have.

[exComptonCop]

ruby,

I'm speechless! Quite frankly, your exploits sound more like fiction than reality. Based on my experience with street gangs and dope dealers, here are somethings I do know: 1) dope dealers/gang members are in business to make money, obviously. 2) your little "mean look" isn't intimidating anyone, don't kid yourself. That said, if all you are claiming is true, this meddling of yours is hitting these thugs where it hurts...their bottom line. Typically criminals aren't too bright, but how long before they make the connection back to you, if they haven't already done so? And how long before these passive "efforts at intimidation" become not so passive?

IMO, you appear to be writing checks your body can't cash.

[rubyrose]

You are welcome to believe that this is more fiction than fact. The only way I could convince you otherwise would be by divulging information I am not at liberty to give.

Yes they know what I am doing. They've known ever since I moved in here two years ago. They have tried multiple schemes to scare me off. Not one of them has worked. There was a long lull in those efforts until last week when I showed up to observe a murder trial.

Yes, they are in the business of making money, and the main thing they want from me isn't for me to be hurt or killed but for me to stop calling 911 and participating in my citizen volunteer activities, which include bike and walking patrols with officers as well as sitting in on relevant court cases.

As for recent events -- they KNOW who I am because I am the only white woman in the neighborhood. I stick out like a sore thumb, so people who've seen me on the streets here are going to recognize me when I show up at the courthouse. The DA asked me who I was and I said I'm with "Court Watch." (The DA's office LOVES Court Watch volunteers.)

The most recent events came about as the result of my attendance at that murder trial. It has been suggested by official persons in the know (i.e., persons wearing a badge) that the reason for the intimidation is to keep me from sitting in on an upcoming trial that is connected to a revenge killing on the revenge killings for which the OTHER guy got convicted last week.

What they MOST want is for me to BELIEVE they will hurt me, so I will stop doing what I'm doing.

But that's not going to happen. That is, I am not going to stop doing the right thing.

Just today I made calls about drug activity across the street from me and I am in the process of writing a detailed report to my contacts as well as posting photos to a secure website.

I have 2 1/2 years experience doing this very sort of thing. While I have made some mistakes I am becoming ever more useful and efficient. There are features of my location that make me relatively secure so long as I am cautious and mindful of my surroundings.

I know the kid to whom I gave that mean look, so I am a better judge than you as to its effect. Will it stop him from doing stuff? No. But it does make him aware that I know EXACTLY what he is trying to do, and that it didn't work. My stare back at him said: sorry pal, I'm not scared, and look who lost his saggy pants and red underwear.

I have learned through my experiences that standing strong and making it clear they can't intimidate me (no matter how scared I might be in reality) is my BEST protection. The minute I look like I'm running scared, they have me over a barrel. It is COPS who have taught me this while I have worked with them.

Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant to me. What's relevant to me is that the persons who can actually do things to help me out and to protect me DO believe me.

ruby,

I'm speechless! Quite frankly, your exploits sound more like fiction than reality. Based on my experience with street gangs and dope dealers, here are somethings I do know: 1) dope dealers/gang members are in business to make money, obviously. 2) your little "mean look" isn't intimidating anyone, don't kid yourself. That said, if all you are claiming is true, this meddling of yours is hitting these thugs where it hurts...their bottom line. Typically criminals aren't too bright, but how long before they make the connection back to you, if they haven't already done so? And how long before these passive "efforts at intimidation" become not so passive?

IMO, you appear to be writing checks your body can't cash.

[exComptonCop]

and the main thing they want from me isn't for me to be hurt or killed but for me to stop calling 911 and participating in my citizen volunteer activities, which include bike and walking patrols with officers as well as sitting in on relevant court cases.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't killing you accomplish their objectives?

Kudos to you Ruby for doing the right thing and above all, stay safe out there.

[JDCOP]

E D P....?

[SgtCHP]

Probably the OC crips. Here are two site where you can research gangs:

gangsorus.com

and

streetgangs.com