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Choosing a baton. Is the RCB worth the hassle?

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  • Choosing a baton. Is the RCB worth the hassle?

    I work security at a very rough, very large nightclub. Most of our bouncers carry batons, mace, tasers, and the majority of us conceal carry guns (All of this is done legally, of course). We have a couple of police officers that work there as well. I personally carry a taser, flashlight, and a pistol.

    I have found myself in numerous situations where I have been outnumbered and alone. A quality baton would have been very useful in one of these situations. So my question is, is it worth it to order the RCB over the ASP? Reading their website, it seems that the RCB is quite a bit superior to the ASP. Only problem is, it says I have to have it shipped to a law enforement agency (Which I think is stupid) :
    http://peacekeeperproducts.com/index...n=Custom&ID=12

    I could have one of my cop friends order it for me, but is it worth the hassle? Or should I just go with an ASP? Also, what is the best length to get? Thanks.
    Last edited by KY Blue 72; 07-26-2008, 12:47 AM.
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  • #2
    It's a metal pipe. Get one that's cheap. Or better yet, quit and get a better job.
    Airborne Cops are closer to God.
    Arms and legs are just extensions of flight controls.

    THESE BIG RED LETTERS HELP ME FIND MY POST.

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    • #3
      I'd skip the baton if I were you; I think the only things they're good for is scratching that part of my back I can't reach because of my vest. You really need training to use it correctly; if you hit someone in the head or neck it's considered lethal force.

      In 12 years in LE I've never used my baton for anything but dogs.

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      • #4
        Even if you may lawfully carry a baton you should still get some formal training on the use of them. You can go from a simple tap to a fatal blow quite easily. As one poster suggested, they're not even used all that often by officers. I've only used mine a couple of times in the jail's booking area. I didn't answer your question, but then I know nothing about "RCB."

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ArkansasFan24 View Post
          Even if you may lawfully carry a baton you should still get some formal training on the use of them. You can go from a simple tap to a fatal blow quite easily. As one poster suggested, they're not even used all that often by officers. I've only used mine a couple of times in the jail's booking area. I didn't answer your question, but then I know nothing about "RCB."
          In all honesty, it is an intimidation tool. I have seen it work at our club many times. When a lot of chaos breaks out because of a fight, just a couple of our guys taking out the ASPs makes everyone take a step back from whatever altercation is occurring and settle down.

          Also the ASP is a great force multiplier if you are by yourself, which has happened to me on more than one occasion. I would never swing for the head with it, as I am well aware that that is lethal force. I agree that formal training would definitely be wise to have. I know this doesn't count as formal, but the police officers that I work with have shown me a few things on how to use them.
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Originally posted by KY Blue 72 View Post
            In all honesty, it is an intimidation tool. I have seen it work at our club many times. When a lot of chaos breaks out because of a fight, just a couple of our guys taking out the ASPs makes everyone take a step back from whatever altercation is occurring and settle down.

            Also the ASP is a great force multiplier if you are by yourself, which has happened to me on more than one occasion. I would never swing for the head with it, as I am well aware that that is lethal force. I agree that formal training would definitely be wise to have. I know this doesn't count as formal, but the police officers that I work with have shown me a few things on how to use them.
            It's not really all that great. If you're out in a crowd with several people around you then one can easily grab it away from you when you start swinging. I know someone this has happened to. You may also want to avoid the neck, chest, and backbone. You can look for a chart online for the green, red, and black striking areas. Aim for the green, and hit as hard as you can. You're better off with one powerful blow than several weaker ones. I am a baton advocate believe it or not. I always carry one on my belt (preferably behind my gun) even though many other cops seem to be forgoing them. I tend to forgo the pepper spray instead. Since you're in a crowd I wouldn't suggest getting one over 21 inches in length. Anything longer is easier to snatch. Anything shorter just looks silly. I know a cop who carries a 16 inch baton, and I've wondered exactly how he plans to use it considering he's probably about 5'4" anyway so his reach is already limited.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ArkansasFan24 View Post
              It's not really all that great. If you're out in a crowd with several people around you then one can easily grab it away from you when you start swinging. I know someone this has happened to. You may also want to avoid the neck, chest, and backbone. You can look for a chart online for the green, red, and black striking areas. Aim for the green, and hit as hard as you can. You're better off with one powerful blow than several weaker ones. I am a baton advocate believe it or not. I always carry one on my belt (preferably behind my gun) even though many other cops seem to be forgoing them. I tend to forgo the pepper spray instead. Since you're in a crowd I wouldn't suggest getting one over 21 inches in length. Anything longer is easier to snatch. Anything shorter just looks silly. I know a cop who carries a 16 inch baton, and I've wondered exactly how he plans to use it considering he's probably about 5'4" anyway so his reach is already limited.
              Good info. I have already looked at that chart and been watching baton tactic videos. I went ahead and got a 26 inch ASP. I tried calling the place that sells the RCB but I got the voice mail everytime. So I decided to go ahead and take my business elsewhere
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              • #8
                See if any of the local martail arts places have classes using stick work, or better yet baton specifically. If one is POST certified or accredited it could really help with liability issues. I agree with the others about the amount of stick time you will probably get swinging, but I have used mine quite a bit doing escorts and as leverage for joing manipulation. Just about anything you have seen someone do with an arm or hand can be done with lots more effectiveness with a baton. Now that I am writing this, I could use some re-famliarization with some of the fun stuff myself

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                • #9
                  Don't pull the baton out if you don't intend to use it. To that end, get training from a proper instructor (one that trains in accepted law enforcement techniques and has legititimate credentials, not the local karate instructor, and not a security guard).
                  Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                  I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

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                  • #10
                    It surprises me that bouncers/security are able to carry a firearm in a place like a bar/dance club that serves/sells alcohol, even with a permit. That to me is just asking for trouble. If you have LEOs there, then why does the security need to be armed?

                    With firearms and tasers as part of your tools at a bar/club, I would expect that you guys have a ridiculous insurance policy.
                    I'm 10-8 like a shark in a sea of crime..

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                    • #11
                      I bet the insurance company doesn't know about that, and I bet that the bouncers have no professional, certified training in using their weapons.
                      Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. - Ronald Reagan

                      I don't think It'll happen in the US because we don't trust our government. We are a country of skeptics, raised by skeptics, founded by skeptics. - Amaroq

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nothing wrong with the ASP brand. Its made of metal and it hurts when you hit people. I would also look into a formal ASP course. And if this club is as much trouble as you say it is maybe your management could be persuaded into formal training for a group of your co-workers.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by SgtScott31 View Post
                          It surprises me that bouncers/security are able to carry a firearm in a place like a bar/dance club that serves/sells alcohol, even with a permit. That to me is just asking for trouble. If you have LEOs there, then why does the security need to be armed?

                          With firearms and tasers as part of your tools at a bar/club, I would expect that you guys have a ridiculous insurance policy.
                          Most of the time having security is a requirement or lowers the cost of the insurance.

                          And everyone that owns a bar or club is not a stupid idiot. They do things like hire ex-police or active police have state mandated training. Also every security company I worked for trained and certified its people to carry the tools we had (ASP and OC mostly).

                          Also, in SD for example, there is a specific statue that persons that are at a bar specifically for security can carry firearms. But the same laws apply to everyone else with firearms. I can't pull it and wave it around and can only be used in self-defense, not for enforcement like police can.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SgtScott31 View Post
                            It surprises me that bouncers/security are able to carry a firearm in a place like a bar/dance club that serves/sells alcohol, even with a permit. That to me is just asking for trouble. If you have LEOs there, then why does the security need to be armed?

                            With firearms and tasers as part of your tools at a bar/club, I would expect that you guys have a ridiculous insurance policy.
                            Kentucky law specifically states that employees of bars can conceal carry deadly weapons with a permit. Everyone that carries has a permit and would never pull their weapon unless used for self defense or the defense of others, which is also justified under Kentucky law.

                            The club is huge, and the LEOs that work there cannot be everywhere, and thats why we carry pistols. We have them concealed, so none of the patrons know we have them and are not an issue when we get into altercations.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Just to clarify I was not implying walking into any old mcdojo and ordering up a side of whoop^%s. I mention post certification and accredidation for the tools used. I train with an instructor that is post certified, trains advanced techiniques to Rangers (mostly before the Iraq war, since then ops tempo has limited the amount of extra training they do in this area apparently, when they are not deployed) and still returns to Korea to train at least once a year for a few weeks, and is at the top of the food chain in his chosen art. I have even done training with the originator of my Kwan, who holds my instructor in the highest esteme.Sorry if I confused someone and implied going to the local Taikwando guy abd getting abelt. If you think the asp class is good watch one of the philipino stick arts demostrations sometime or a Hapkido Jin Jung Kwan cane/stick guy, and prepare to be impressed.

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