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  • #91
    Originally posted by CityCopDC View Post
    Point taken. If I was to tell you to "take a clue" would you be offended?
    Nope.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
      Not too long ago, I was getting flamed from a citizen who thought I was "overly agressive" because I'd prone out someone I'd observe carrying a firearm, who hadn't warned me he was legally carrying at the time of the stop.
      Thats a judgement call and I cant "smack" you for proning someone out when you observe a firearm on the person. You dont KNOW who that person is or what the hell they just may have done.

      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
      IMO, if someone has a permit to legally carry tells me he's armed (at the time of a "routine" traffic stop) he's doing right by me and keeping the stop low key at the same time. I might take the weapon from him, but I wouldn't handcuff him anymore than I'd handcuff another traffic violator at this stage. If you do and it's an acceptible procedure within your jurisdiction, that's okay.
      Thats an option that you have to weigh against the risk. If you dont feel that handcuffing is needed then by all means dont do it. But because Im going to need to id the citizen and make sure the permit they have is valid, DURING THAT TIME that im dealing with them, I dont want them to have access to a weapon.

      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
      What I don't like (and I'm not saying you do this) is open hostility towards people who own, use or carry firearms lawfully and for legitimate reasons.
      Thank you for the disclaimer.
      I agree, I have no problems with people who use and carry firearms for legitimate reasons. But I refuse to allow someone access to a weapon untill I can verify their identity and verify the legal status of that permit....

      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
      In many metropolitan areas (L.A. included), politicians (including chiefs of police) are doing everything they can to attack those legitimate gun owners. It's demeaning and causes a lot of unnecessary friction towards working cops.
      I dont think it causes friction between cops, I think it "allows" the criminal element in a sense to "get over". Hey If I can rob a citizen, knowing its ILLEGAL for a law abiding citizen to be armed, what are the chances of them turning a gun on me?

      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
      When I was stopped one night as a 19 or 20 year old kid (expired registration) and I told the officers I had a rifle in the back because I was going on a hunting trip, I was telling the truth. The officers inspected the gun to verify it was unloaded (it was), wished me luck on the trip and never treated me as "a threat" (suspect) because I wasn't one. That type of professionalism, is why 30+ years later, I'm in this profession. They treated me right, while doing their job. No cuffs, no drawn weapons, just a traffic stop and a citizen who advised the officers about the presence of a weapon to place them at ease.
      A Maryland officer stopped me, I didnt flash my badge, I advised him I was LE, showed my creds and advised him I was armed. He said he believed me (due to the little things I did, turned the interior lights on, pulled ALL the way over to the right, had my hands on the steering wheel.) He asked me where my weapon was, I told him, he asked me to step out of the car. I FOLLOWED HIS INSTRUCTIONS AND DIDNT ASK QUESTIONS. He placed me in cuffs, retrieved my weapon. Once he had my weapon secured, he took me out of cuffs, verified my identity and immediately gave me my weapon back. We wound up having a 35min conversation on the side of the road from LE to politics. The officer apologized and advised me why he did what he did. He advised me If I wanted to speak to a supervisor that I could. It was no need. The officer was an exemplary figure for his agency. See, in my metro area, "SOMETIMES" we get people "pretending" to be the police. Verification is needed.

      Originally posted by pulicords View Post
      This is how I'd like to find out about guns on T-stops and how I respond. When I find out through my own observation(s), it's usually because the suspect(s) are intentionally trying to hide them.
      In a perfect world we would hope no one has a gun on them. As long as you dont become complacent and "assume" that every person you deal with who advises they are legally carrying is "telling the truth" you should be fine. Hell, its got you this far and you have TWICE my time in LE....
      Last edited by CityCopDC; 12-24-2007, 11:51 PM.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by dboogie2288 View Post
        Nope.
        Cool, take a Xanex/Percacet.....

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by CityCopDC View Post
          A Maryland officer stopped me, I didnt flash my badge, I advised him I was LE, showed my creds and advised him I was armed. He said he believed me (due to the little things I did, turned the interior lights on, pulled ALL the way over to the right, had my hands on the steering wheel.) He asked me where my weapon was, I told him, he asked me to step out of the car. I FOLLOWED HIS INSTRUCTIONS AND DIDNT ASK QUESTIONS. He placed me in cuffs, retrieved my weapon. Once he had my weapon secured, he took me out of cuffs, verified my identity and immediately gave me my weapon back. We wound up having a 35min conversation on the side of the road from LE to politics. The officer apologized and advised me why he did what he did. He advised me If I wanted to speak to a supervisor that I could. It was no need. The officer was an exemplary figure for his agency. See, in my metro area, "SOMETIMES" we get people "pretending" to be the police. Verification is needed.
          Wow!!! You showed him ID and he still handcuffed you? IMO, he apologized for good reason- he was wrong to do it. If he takes the attitude that ID isn't enough cause to verify you're a cop, what's next? Did he request verification of the ID, request a supervisor from your agency, verify who you were with prints? Sorry for the rant, but I've stopped a lot of cops and been stopped a few times too. Presentation of ID, as well as verbal notification is as strong of a verification that you're legit as I can think of needing. I hope this isn't a common practice there. We had a similar situation involving LAPD cops stopping LASD deputies in an unmarked ("plainwrap") vehicle a few years back and the reprocussions lasted months. A great "training" tape was the result and it caused a lot of embarassment within LAPD, but was funnier than h***.

          Bottom line: We're all in this together brother and respect, coupled with a little reasonable common sense, is sufficient to get us through a long, interesting career in good health. Take care, Merry Christmas and have a happy, healthy, New Year!!!
          "I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's spoken."

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by pulicords View Post
            Wow!!! You showed him ID and he still handcuffed you? IMO, he apologized for good reason- he was wrong to do it. If he takes the attitude that ID isn't enough cause to verify you're a cop, what's next? We're all in this together brother and respect, coupled with a little reasonable common sense, is sufficient to get us through a long, interesting career in good health. Take care, Merry Christmas and have a happy, healthy, New Year!!!
            Well in his defense again at the time we had subject(s) running around "pretending" to be the police, pulling people over, robbing them blah blah blah. That I can understand.

            *Second thing, Im almost 6'2, he was maybe 5'5. It was funny as hell because I could look at him and see that he was scared ****less! I really didnt want to give that officer any problems. I just did what he told me. The embarassment on his face was obvious but again, I understand why he did what he did.

            Comment


            • #96
              This thread needs a hug.

              Merry Christmas!

              Comment


              • #97
                I think something needs said here. The heavy handed actions by us LEO's are one of the prime reasons we are looked down on by so many citizens. I am not saying throw all caution to the wind, but one can still exercise due care and not make a law abiding citizen feel like a criminal. I don't know about anyone else, but I go to great lengths to make sure I do not treat a law abiding citizen like a common criminal. I will take a greater risk myself before going down that road. Thats what we are paid too do, that is what we are expected to do. Criticize me if you like. Most people are not criminals and IMO it is wrong to automatically assume they are especially over a handgun permit.

                Where I work, if I pulled everyone out of a vehicle because they had a weapon, I would be pulling about every third person or so out.(Estimated) I would also be unemployed. It must be the difference's in the area's we live. I truly believe a well armed society is a polite society and I also believe that is one of the problem's with these high crime areas.
                "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms. . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." - Thomas Jefferson

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by j706 View Post
                  I think something needs said here. The heavy handed actions by us LEO's are one of the prime reasons we are looked down on by so many citizens. I am not saying throw all caution to the wind, but one can still exercise due care and not make a law abiding citizen feel like a criminal. I don't know about anyone else, but I go to great lengths to make sure I do not treat a law abiding citizen like a common criminal. I will take a greater risk myself before going down that road.
                  I dont and I wont agree with anyone on that. Taking a "greater risk" is gambling with your life. If you feel the ends justify the means and you want to take that gamble, so be it. If it means a citizen will be "incovienienced" for a few minutes to ensure my safety, then thats where the chips will fall.

                  Originally posted by j706 View Post
                  Thats what we are paid too do, that is what we are expected to do.
                  You may be. But I AM NOT paid to be assaulted and its not expected of me to allow someone to harm me.

                  Originally posted by j706 View Post
                  Criticize me if you like. Most people are not criminals and IMO it is wrong to automatically assume they are especially over a handgun permit.
                  I agree, most people are not criminals and IMO it is wrong to assume someone is a criminal over a handgun permit. Which is why during the course of the stop, I will have possession of that weapon if its on their person and I will handcuff them so I can safely retrieve that weapon. Once I have the weapon, cuffs come off. Normally a criminals handcuffs dont come off.

                  Originally posted by j706 View Post
                  Where I work, if I pulled everyone out of a vehicle because they had a weapon, I would be pulling about every third person or so out.(Estimated) I would also be unemployed. It must be the difference's in the area's we live.
                  Where we both live Im sure plays a large role in what you and I can do.

                  Originally posted by j706 View Post
                  I truly believe a well armed society is a polite society and I also believe that is one of the problem's with these high crime areas.
                  While I agree somewhat, thats still debateable. There are several other factors that play a role in a high crime area, but thats another thread for another day.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Merry Christmas, brothers & sisters in blue!

                    We are going in circles here, and it seems no one will be convinced.

                    Bottom line, when in DC, do as DC does. While I don't agree with CityCopDC's tactics, I still respect him for thinking it necessary to use them. After all, it's his jurisdiction, not mine.

                    I agree that heavy-handed tactics by the police will create a rift between the police and the citizens they serve. CityCopDC's tactics would not work in my neck of the woods.

                    I've carried in DC. If I would have been pulled for a traffic infraction and put on the ground after ID'ing myself as a fellow officer, I'd be highly p*ssed!

                    Merry Christmas to all of us who serve the public and support and defend the Constitution!

                    It's all good.
                    Politically Correct? No.

                    Truthful? Yes!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Woofdog View Post
                      I've carried in DC. If I would have been pulled for a traffic infraction and put on the ground after ID'ing myself as a fellow officer, I'd be highly p*ssed!
                      As an OFFICER, why would you be put on the ground? I think the problem with this thread is people are reading portions of the thread and making a general assumption. So let me clear it up, again.

                      AS AN OFFICER if you show me your credentials, peace have a good day, no need for further ID and we can sit around and chat if thats what you want to do. For some reason people are thinking that we are running around putting OFFICERS face down on the ground just to id them.

                      Comment


                      • It's Cool.

                        Now, if we can also do away with handcuffing me as well, we can have a great conversation!

                        Stay Safe & Happy New Year from the Carolinas.
                        Politically Correct? No.

                        Truthful? Yes!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CityCopDC View Post
                          Cool, take a Xanex/Percacet.....
                          Ehh Percacet? No thanks, I dont have a toothache.

                          Good luck in your ventures, I truly bestow my pity amongst those you come in contact with. Both now, and in the future.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by dboogie2288 View Post
                            Ehh Percacet? No thanks, I dont have a toothache.

                            Good luck in your ventures, I truly bestow my pity amongst those you come in contact with. Both now, and in the future.
                            You have made one snide comment after another, directed at me. From your post, YOUR NOT A POLICE OFFICER or DULY APPOINTED OFFICER thats able to MAKE ARRESTS ON OR OFF DUTY ON PUBLIC SPACE. With that said. Because YOUR NOT a SWORN LEO you are not in a position to critique or criticize me for ANYTHING that I do. LEO's can disagree with me, critique and even criticize what I do. YOU CAN NOT.

                            Originally posted by dboogie2288 View Post
                            Oh here's a fun one. Seems some dust got unsettled over on the legal firearms page, lets try this one.
                            How do you, as police officers feel about private security officers?
                            I am an SO here, and work for a relatively decent security firm and I'll say I enjoy my job.
                            When YOU can initiate a TRAFFIC STOP, you criticize me on what I do on mine. Until then, you are not in a position to tell me how to conduct a traffic stop untill you have the POWER or LEGAL AUTHORITY to do so... Thank You Dboogie, and now I see exactly why Garbage Man made the thread that he did.

                            Amazing. A Security Officer criticizing a POLICE OFFICER on how to conduct
                            traffic stops.....

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by CityCopDC View Post
                              LEO's can disagree with me, critique and even criticize what I do.
                              I fully agree with the rest of your post, but you seemed to get pretty offended when some of the brotherhood offered their comments. As a personal observation, you seem to have big problems with anyone offering differing opinions. and take them quite personally.
                              As far as "rights" are concerned; I look at them this way... I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own...

                              Comment


                              • [edit]

                                ah hell. I'm going to go ahead and be the bigger man here. He's obviously one upped me with his oh-so-superior title and ability to make traffic stops.



                                oops, almost forgot.
                                [/sarcasm]
                                Last edited by dboogie2288; 12-26-2007, 07:04 AM.

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