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  • #31
    OK, I see. That makes ALL the difference.

    And no, we don't have them lay on the ground. It makes it a little more difficult to order them away from the vehicle.
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
    8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
      Not to mention that is pretty much exactly what we do on a FELONY car stop.
      You too, huh?

      OUTSIDE DC, I would equate handling a person that decides to exercize a right, like a felon... Sorry, but I would not order a guy out of the car, handcuff him and search his car because his Bible was in plain view. As was pointed out, this thread WAS about LEGALLY carried weapons in a vehicle. IF weapons are NOT legal where you work, why chime in?

      It IS sad that there are places in the US where people can't arm themselves. I am NOT one of those cops (Rosie O types) that preach disarmament but have firearms to protect myself. Everyone has that right, and hopefully the USSC will see it that way too.

      I've stopped my share of armed folks too. They tell me, show a permit, and no problems. Guess there is a different breed of human up this way. I feel bad for you, DC and am happy your incident turned out well. Stay safe down there.
      As far as "rights" are concerned; I look at them this way... I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
        OK, I see. That makes ALL the difference.

        And no, we don't have them lay on the ground. It makes it a little more difficult to order them away from the vehicle.
        Badguy cant run laying on the ground.....

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        • #34
          Originally posted by grog18b View Post
          You too, huh?

          OUTSIDE DC, I would equate handling a person that decides to exercize a right, like a felon... Sorry, but I would not order a guy out of the car, handcuff him and search his car because his Bible was in plain view.
          Please show me kind sir where I said or ALLUDED to searching anyones car?

          Originally posted by grog18b View Post
          As was pointed out, this thread WAS about LEGALLY carried weapons in a vehicle. IF weapons are NOT legal where you work, why chime in?
          Because correct me if im wrong but the Title of the thread was "Traffic Stops AND Legal Firearms"? I could be mistaken but that was a TRAFFIC STOP I conducted and the subject did LEGALLY possess a firearm, and could legally carry it on him. I was GOING to send the subject on his way because every now and then you do come across a citizen who is armed and is not aware of DC's gun laws, but he escalated the situation to the use of force. So I believe I do have the right to chime in.

          Originally posted by grog18b View Post
          It IS sad that there are places in the US where people can't arm themselves. I am NOT one of those cops (Rosie O types) that preach disarmament but have firearms to protect myself.
          Neither do I. So atleast you and I agree on one thing.

          Originally posted by grog18b View Post
          Everyone has that right, and hopefully the USSC will see it that way too.
          I agree.

          Originally posted by grog18b View Post
          I've stopped my share of armed folks too. They tell me, show a permit, and no problems. Guess there is a different breed of human up this way.
          Different breed, different work enviorment, demographics and the whole lot. Your a PA State Trooper right?

          Originally posted by grog18b View Post
          I feel bad for you, DC and am happy your incident turned out well. Stay safe down there.
          Thank you for your concern but there is no need to feel bad for me, Im quite fine. On the contrary, I actually feel bad for you. And you stay safe as well kind sir.
          Last edited by CityCopDC; 12-20-2007, 09:07 PM.

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          • #35
            Didn't say YOU searched anyone's car... It's not all about you, you know? and yes, that's where I work. The searches comment got me some cross thread points. Apparently we agree on more than just one thing?
            As far as "rights" are concerned; I look at them this way... I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own...

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            • #36
              In my line of work a high percentage of traffic stops and general contacts involve the legal transportation/carry of firearms (Hunting or CPL/CCW). In nearly every case, I ensure the firearm is properly cased and unloaded. Its not very often I take physical possession of the firearm unless I intend to cite or arrest. Its the nature of my line of work and its hard to understand unless you're contacting a high number of armed law abiding citizens like I do.
              Last edited by warrior1978; 12-21-2007, 07:39 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by CityCopDC View Post
                If you tell me off the break that you have a weapon on you Im going to do two things.

                1st- Your going to tell me EXACTLY where the weapon is.

                2nd- Once I know where the gun is, Im going to ask you to step out of the vehicle facing away from me, with your hands in the air. (My weapon will be at the low ready, pointed in your direction.) You will get down on your knees and follow my commands to put your hands behind your back. I will clearly advise you that you are not under arrest. I will approach you and handcuff you. Its at this point in time that its in your best interest not to make any sudden movements. I will handcuff you, retrieve the weapon, unload the weapon and secure it. Stand you up, confirm who you are and then take the cuffs off of you. My way is a little more drastic as I have been involved in 2 shootings and one of them was on a traffic stop....
                Talking from a citizen's POV, that just discourages me from even telling you I have an unloaded firearm in a locked case in the back of vehicle...

                Because if I don't say I have one, I have a 99% chance of just getting a ticket and getting on my way... If I do tell you I have a firearm, then I get the joy of getting handcuffed, my weapon "secured" and wasting a whole lot more time sitting by the road side while you confirm my ID / firearm.

                I understand that you don't know if I'm "Mr. Nice Guy" or "Mr. Serial Killer", but why would a criminal tell you upfront that they have a firearm if they're planning something devious with it?

                I could also say that I, as a citizen, don't know if you are "Officer Awesome" or "Officer Just Snapped and Gonna Shoot the Next Motorist in the Face" but we don't get any liberty in making sure we're in a safe situation like you do.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by EngineerGuy View Post
                  Talking from a citizen's POV, that just discourages me from even telling you I have an unloaded firearm in a locked case in the back of vehicle...

                  Because if I don't say I have one, I have a 99% chance of just getting a ticket and getting on my way... If I do tell you I have a firearm, then I get the joy of getting handcuffed, my weapon "secured" and wasting a whole lot more time sitting by the road side while you confirm my ID / firearm.

                  I understand that you don't know if I'm "Mr. Nice Guy" or "Mr. Serial Killer", but why would a criminal tell you upfront that they have a firearm if they're planning something devious with it?

                  I could also say that I, as a citizen, don't know if you are "Officer Awesome" or "Officer Just Snapped and Gonna Shoot the Next Motorist in the Face" but we don't get any liberty in making sure we're in a safe situation like you do.
                  That's a good point. Thankfully I have not had THAT particular treatment here in Indiana, and every time I am stopped the officers thank me for advising that I have a firearm either on me, or in the vehicle. I'm sure those officers that are used to dealing with armed citizens are less likely to handle the situation as such, but then again I am of the opinion that gun control is only there to control the law abiding citizens. No bad guy is going to tell you he has a loaded, stolen, 9mm under the seat.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by EngineerGuy View Post
                    Talking from a citizen's POV, that just discourages me from even telling you I have an unloaded firearm in a locked case in the back of vehicle...

                    Because if I don't say I have one, I have a 99% chance of just getting a ticket and getting on my way... If I do tell you I have a firearm, then I get the joy of getting handcuffed, my weapon "secured" and wasting a whole lot more time sitting by the road side while you confirm my ID / firearm.

                    I understand that you don't know if I'm "Mr. Nice Guy" or "Mr. Serial Killer", but why would a criminal tell you upfront that they have a firearm if they're planning something devious with it?

                    I could also say that I, as a citizen, don't know if you are "Officer Awesome" or "Officer Just Snapped and Gonna Shoot the Next Motorist in the Face" but we don't get any liberty in making sure we're in a safe situation like you do.
                    You having a weapon in the trunk of a car vs's a weapon ON YOUR PERSON and you keep grabbing it is two totaly different things. Read this.
                    Originally posted by CityCopDC View Post
                    Once I made contact with the driver, he advised me that he had a legal permit to carry a weapon and that the weapon was on him. For reasons till this day I still cant explain, the DRIVER countinued to put his hands on that weapon even after repeated commands to keep his hands on the steering wheel. The driver then proceeded to open the door to his car while I back pedaled to mine.
                    As you can see, this gun was not in a locked case, in the trunk of a car. It was on him and he kept grabbing the gun after I told him several times to keep his damn hands on the steering wheel. Why does a citizen need to grab a gun after repeated commands by a sworn ARMED officer to stop grabbing the damn gun? So if you "Mr Citizen" have a gun locked away in your trunk or glove compartment then I obviously dont need to pull you out the car. If the weapon is ON YOUR PERSON thats something different.

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                    • #40
                      CityCopDC, sorry, I was responding to your first post in the thread and thought when you said "weapon on you" you meant just anywhere in the vehicle. I do agree if someone starts touching their firearm after you said not to that its not a smart thing to do unless you're looking to get shot.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by EngineerGuy View Post
                        CityCopDC, sorry, I was responding to your first post in the thread and thought when you said "weapon on you" you meant just anywhere in the vehicle. I do agree if someone starts touching their firearm after you said not to that its not a smart thing to do unless you're looking to get shot.
                        And unfourtunately thats exactly what happened. He got shot and now has to deal with it the rest of his life, while in prison......

                        P.S. And thats why if a citzen tells ME that they have a weapon ON THEIR PERSON, I take the measures I do to make sure I (and my partner) dont get hurt. None of you on this forum has to like it. But dont second guess my motives as if Im trying to humiliate citizens for no reasons ESPECIALLY if none of you have walked in my shoes.... And thats also directed towards Dboogie and Grog18b
                        Last edited by CityCopDC; 12-22-2007, 02:17 AM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by grog18b View Post
                          Didn't say YOU searched anyone's car... It's not all about you, you know? and yes, that's where I work. The searches comment got me some cross thread points. Apparently we agree on more than just one thing?
                          Maybe. I count two, nothing more....

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                          • #43
                            D.C Cop I am on your side on this. I am an officer and have seen fellow officers do things involving permit holders that freaked me out. Any idiot can get a permit from the Sheriffs Office given he /she has no criminal record or active PFA. In todays society Officers have become brainwashed into "don't do anything to get sued" rather than taking every precaution to get you home safe. I soon realized that if I am doing my job people will complain. As long as I follow my training and the law and you think you feel like suing go ahead because I could use the OT! Each case of somebody with a permit has different facets and it is up to the officer handle the situation professionally to make sure he goes home.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by dboogie2288 View Post
                              Well that answers that right there. I know where I'm not moving to!
                              I knew that along time ago, even long before they re-elected a convicted felon / crack head as mayor.
                              "That's right man, we've got mills here that'll blow that heap of your's right off the road."

                              "Beautiful Daughter of the Stars."(it's my home now)

                              >>>>> A Time for Choosing <<<<<

                              Retired @ 31yr 2mo as of 0000 hrs. 01-01-10. Yeah, all in all, it was good.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by HYPER1 View Post
                                D.C Cop I am on your side on this. I am an officer and have seen fellow officers do things involving permit holders that freaked me out. Any idiot can get a permit from the Sheriffs Office given he /she has no criminal record or active PFA. In todays society Officers have become brainwashed into "don't do anything to get sued" rather than taking every precaution to get you home safe. I soon realized that if I am doing my job people will complain. As long as I follow my training and the law and you think you feel like suing go ahead because I could use the OT! Each case of somebody with a permit has different facets and it is up to the officer handle the situation professionally to make sure he goes home.
                                Well according to some on this forum, when you take those measures, your treating innocent law abiding citizens like convicted felons.

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