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  • #31
    Actually, a lot of them do, except for skippers.

    An arrest warrant allows you to go into the house of the wanted person to look for him, but not of a third person. It doesn't invalidate the arrest, of course, but it sets you up for a civil suit.

    A bounty hunter CAN kick in a door, and frequently do. That's what got them in trouble a few years back when they held a family who wasn't the right ones, can't remember where. They are not the Government, and therefore are not subject the the Bill of Rights.

    They may be charged with kicking in a door, they have no right to destroy property no more than any other citizen, but their skipper is still under arrest and they haul butt.

    You do exactly what I do when someone is harboring a fugitive: I say, "Hey, look...how many people need to go to jail here? Him, or you AND him." And it works. But bounty hunters can't get search warrants so that method is unavailable to them. And anyone who interferes with an investigation is subject to arrest.

    Here, a "citizen's arrest" has always been around, but it's seldom used. The only thing a citizen can't arrest for is an ordinance or a traffic law.

    While the bounty hunter's taking of a runner would be considerd an "arrest" by law, it's not a "citizen's arrest." Any more than repossessing a car for non-payment is car theft.

    There's a lot of crap about bounty hunters in state laws, and they probaby vary form state to state. Bond companies are protected heavily by lawyer-legislators, and
    "Say hal-lo to my leetle frahnd!"

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    • #32
      My only contention is I have never seen anything in Indiana State Law that exempts a Bond Recovery Agent from any of the Indiana Code. We all know there are numerous exemptions for Law Enforcement Officers when executing our official duties.

      I have never seen anything that allows an "Agent" to Trespass. I have not seen anything that allows an "Agent" to use force to fulfill their CIVIL Contract. Any Code that they violate in the execution of their contract can leave them open to Criminal Law or Tort Law.

      As far as a Bond Enforcement Agent taking control of a Citizen. SCOTUS has pinned down quite well what is considered an "arrest". I am fairly certain handcuffing, stuffing, transporting, and confining a citizen when he is not free to leave qualifies as an "arrest" or "Criminal Confinement" depending on your legal authority to do so.
      "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
      8541tactical.com - Ammo Wallets

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      • #33
        My $0.02 is that bounty hunters are wanna be cops. "DOG" Duane Chapman is a felon himself and can not own a firearm. However, he still trys to make his show look hardcore and his sons dress up like they are SWAT officers. Non of them have a slightest clue to what police work is like. Just watch their show and you can tell non of them have any officer safety nor the proper training to be playing like SWAT plays. They have a fine line that they can not cross before they get charged with kidnapping or false arrest. It's a business I would not want to do at all.

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        • #34
          When a bail bondsman, surety or "bounty hunter" snatches up a body.....he is not making an arrest. An arrest under our criminal justice system involves the depriving a person of his constitutional rights by a governmental agency. When a person agrees to have a bond posted to secure his release from custody he has agreed that his right to liberty is subject to the whim of the bondholder. The bondholder can return him to the courts using whatever means necessary. Additionally, since this person has been charged with a crime, he is still under the jurisdiction of the criminal court system and his bail can be changed at any time.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dinosaur32 View Post
            When a bail bondsman, surety or "bounty hunter" snatches up a body.....he is not making an arrest. An arrest under our criminal justice system involves the depriving a person of his constitutional rights by a governmental agency. When a person agrees to have a bond posted to secure his release from custody he has agreed that his right to liberty is subject to the whim of the bondholder. The bondholder can return him to the courts using whatever means necessary. Additionally, since this person has been charged with a crime, he is still under the jurisdiction of the criminal court system and his bail can be changed at any time.
            Not here!
            Example: My nephew is arrested for possession of a controlled substance; the judge sets his bail at $50,000 ($5,000 cash). I post his bond, get him out of jail, and two days later, I learn he is planning on skipping out and going to Florida.
            I have only one recourse at this point in Illinois: I can petition the court to revoke his bail and issue a warrant for his arrest. This warrant can only be issued by a judge, and served by a sworn law enforcement officer. I can provide the police with information about him, but I cannot contract anyone to pick him up.
            “Truth is not what you want it to be; it is what it is, and you must bend to its power or live a lie.”

            Miyamoto Musashi

            “Life Is Hard, But It's Harder When You're Stupid”

            George V. Higgins (from The Friends of Eddie Coyle)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Gene L View Post
              Why are you being so nasty?
              I'm not being nasty, I'm pointing out that your statements about bounty hunters are BS. If you don't like it too bad.
              Everyone knows about curtlidge and open fields, and this case had nothing to do with open fields.
              First it's spelled curtilage, second you didn't reference any specific case, so what are you talking about when you say, "this case?"
              At any rate, very few arrest warrants are served in open fields, so your point is minimal.
              BS, I arrest people outside their dwelling, but on their property on a regular basis. BTW, the front lawn, backyard, etc, are all "open fields" within the context of the open fields doctrine.
              Police cannot trespass on property to serve a warrant: this is true. In serving a warrant properly and legally, they are not trespassing.
              Yes, which makes your previous statement ridiculous, because this whole point was about serving a warrant. Regardless, cops can conduct surveillance on private property without any warrant at all, which is the whole point of the open fields doctrine.
              Read below your post and you will see examples of when and in which states warrant service is limited.
              Yeah, it limits arrests on misdemeanors in MN, NOT felonies. Sorry, but I'm not too worried about misdemeanor FTA warrants.

              Regardless, if you want to believe that bounty hunters somehow have "more powers of arrest than cops do" you're delusional. Bounty hunters are limited to enforcing a contract, ie the bond agreement, and have not other authority except the "citizen's arrest" nonsense that exists in many jurisdictions. Further, there is nothing that would allow a bounty hunter to forcibly enter a third party residence to apprehend a skip. They have no legal authority to detain third party persons residence when apprehending a skip. However, a cop certainly can enter a third party residence as part of a hot pursuit, and when arresting a suspect can often detain/frisk other people present for safety reasons. Bounty hunters have absolutely no authority over anyone other than the party to the contract they are trying to enforce, and therefore cannot legally detain any other person present when apprehending a skip.
              Last edited by SA13; 11-04-2007, 10:33 AM.

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              • #37
                In California, Bail Agents and Bail Fugitive Recovery Persons (aka Bounty Hunters) are regulated by the Department of Insurance (my employer). A Fugitive recovery person does need an Bail Agents license but must meet the requirements of Penal Code 1299 also known as the Bail Fugitive Recovery Persons Act.

                For more details on CA PC 1299 see:

                http://www.aroundthecapitol.com/code...0/1299-1299.14
                Running is not a plan, running is what you do when a plan fails. -Tremors

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                • #38
                  After I medically retired from my old police department I started sending out applications everywhere. I was called by California Surety Investigations in Riverside, California. I found the job ad in a Porac magazine. I had no idea what they did, but it was a job to look into. I went to my interview and was told what the job was and what they expected. I was told California Surety Investigations only worked, bounty hunted, for Alladin Bail Bonds. I was given a vehicle, cell phone, and $5000.00 a month salery.

                  Also, at the time, Ca Surety Investigations only hired retired cops. So you guys who think all bounty hunters are "wanna be" cops think again. I know, I know....there are alot of bounty hunters that want to be cops, but can't. If being a cop was easy everyone would be doing it. Okay back to my story..

                  After 12 years of being a cop, I still had to go to classes in Ca to be certified with the state as a "Fugitive recovery agent" After I completed the class's I finally got a case load. I started out with around 35 cases. I cleared most of them over the phone. Some I had to go look for. Bounty hunting is like being on a warrant team, all you do is serve warrants.

                  Did I break the law doing this job, no. Did I think it was the most respectable job....no. After all "bail" is a nasty word in Law Enforcement. If I did not work with other cops as my partners I would have never taken the job. I will admit though, I got paid a butt load of money, but I will never do it again.

                  Yes, there are dip *****'s in the bail recovery world, but I've run into just as many dip *****'s in law enforcement. Not everyone is perfect.

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                  • #39
                    Just to clarify, the court case that Bounty Hunters cite dates to the late 1800's. We had a few try to bring their "clients" back into the U.S. from Mexico. They got to be guests of the Government, along with their clients. Kidnapping is still a crime. These guys started international incidents.A few got caught in the Republic of Mexico, and may still be there.
                    Having seen the inside of the Tijuana Jail and prison (on Official Business), I pity them, sort of.
                    "A man who has nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the existing of better men than himself."
                    John Stuart Mill

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                    • #40
                      I ran into some "bounty hunters" locally when they were trying to locate a guy for FTA.

                      They looked like extras from "The Matrix." Long black trenchcoats (it was August), matching black pants, shirts, and tactical vests and, of course, dark sunglasses (its was night).

                      Needless to say, I was not impressed with their professionalism.

                      Regards,
                      C

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                      • #41
                        Bounty Hunter-ILLEGAL here in KY. Thank god.
                        DISCLAIMER: All opinions are mine, they do not reflect the opinions or position of my employing agency nor do they reflect any position of my agency.

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