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  • SA13
    replied
    Originally posted by Gene L View Post
    In seome states, cops can't serve a warrant on Sunday, or in certain hours of the night.
    Really which ones? Also, please cite the specific statutes in those states that say that. Let's be clear, we're talking about ARREST warrants, not search warrants.
    Cops can't trespss on a person's property without an arrest warrant or a search warrant, because of Ammendment 4.
    Who taught you 4th Amendment law? Because whoever it was you need to demand a refund on any tuition and fees. Reference the open fields doctrine.

    For your edification:
    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/c...nt04/04.html#3

    You can demand a warrant for someone to enter your home, or even the curtilage, but not for the yard, even if fenced and posted.

    They can (as they do on the movies) sneak up and look thru windows, (if they don't gt caught) tape them up and throw them in the trunk of their car, can enter private dwellings by subterfuge, etc. In otherwords they can do anything that would otherwise be considered kidnapping if it wasn't for their status as a bailsbondsman.
    No they really can't, but it's obvious your understanding of the law, and reality in general is lacking.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gene L
    replied
    Originally posted by Dinosaur32 View Post
    A surety need not wait until you have skipped a court appearance to withdraw your bail or bond. All he needs to do is grab you up and bring you before the judge that set the bail, or another judge sitting in his stead.
    True. A surety can go off your bond by (where I live) delivering you to the Sheriff's Office and cancelling his bond.

    But it's the responsibilty of the guy who signed the bond to do so.

    Leave a comment:


  • DeputySC
    replied
    They are regulated through our state l/e divison.

    I pulled one over and got some crack cookies, marijuana, and an illegal sawed off shot gun from his trunk. He also had 4 other guns in the car but they were all legal. They are regulated, but it still seems like anyone can become one. I think they just get a license and bonding companies hire them. And if the state of offering an award for someome they will try and hunt them down...

    Leave a comment:


  • Dinosaur32
    replied
    A surety need not wait until you have skipped a court appearance to withdraw your bail or bond. All he needs to do is grab you up and bring you before the judge that set the bail, or another judge sitting in his stead.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gene L
    replied
    Blackdog, I suggest you re-read the SCOTUS decision posted by Sgt CHP.

    Certain states have placed restrictions on bounty hunters after some well-publicized mistakes. But generally, the have wide "arrest" powers.

    Forcible entry into a house of a third person is prohibited to cops, as well, unless it's hot pursuit. Or, they have a search warrant.

    Leave a comment:


  • SgtCHP
    replied
    Originally posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
    A bondsman only goes after a subject after he has missed his court appearance right?

    I may be totally clueless about this, but here if you miss a court appearance a warrant is issued for your arrest. Once a warrant is issued here I have the right to snap you up anywhere anytime. I also have the right to forcibly enter the address the warrant is issued for and search anywhere the subject may be hidden.

    I am fairly certain that if a bondsman forcibly enters a residence he can be charged with a Felony (residential entry).

    I can't see any way, in the State of Indiana that a bondsman has greater powers of arrest than I do as a Police Officer.

    We don't have warrant squads here. Each officer takes it upon himself to check for fresh felony warrants. When we have a break in dispatched runs we work the warrants.
    Indiana law concerning Bail Enforcement Agents:

    License required. A surety, or a person authorized by him with a certified copy of the undertaking, may apprehend a principal in any county in the state (IC 35-1-22-7). Recovery agents must be licensed (IC 27-10-3-1(1997). To obtain a license, recovery agents must be at least 18, a citizen of the US, a resident of IN for at least 6 months, 10 years since a felony conviction, 5 years since a misdemeanor. (IC 27-10-3-5.) They must pass an examination given by the state. (IC 27-10-3-6). Recovery agents must notify the sheriff in their respective locales of their residence (IC 27-10-3-17) and bail bond agents must give the state a list of recovery agents they employ (IC 27-10-3-14). Forcible entry into a private dwelling of a third party to arrest the principal is prohibited (IC 35-33-1-4) (IC 27-10-2-7) Mishler v State, 660 N.E.2nd 343 (Ind App. 1996). UCEA

    Leave a comment:


  • Blackdog F4i
    replied
    A bondsman only goes after a subject after he has missed his court appearance right?

    I may be totally clueless about this, but here if you miss a court appearance a warrant is issued for your arrest. Once a warrant is issued here I have the right to snap you up anywhere anytime. I also have the right to forcibly enter the address the warrant is issued for and search anywhere the subject may be hidden.

    I am fairly certain that if a bondsman forcibly enters a residence he can be charged with a Felony (residential entry).

    I can't see any way, in the State of Indiana that a bondsman has greater powers of arrest than I do as a Police Officer.

    We don't have warrant squads here. Each officer takes it upon himself to check for fresh felony warrants. When we have a break in dispatched runs we work the warrants.

    Leave a comment:


  • exComptonCop
    replied
    Originally posted by J Bo1664 View Post
    He was, and I am not kidding, wearing tiger stripe camo panys, shirt, boony hat, load bearing vest, coat, and boots, with an "Agent" badge around his neck.
    Camo panties??

    Leave a comment:


  • SgtCHP
    replied
    Originally posted by Blackdog F4i View Post
    Duane Chapman (a.k.a. DOG) is a convicted Felon. THAT is why he dosent carry a firearm.



    I think you are reaching there. I would like to know what states allow Bondsman to violate people's civil rights or make arrests based on anything more than their civil contract with their "client".

    I have only once ran accross a group of "Bounty Hunters". They were out of state and the goofballs figured they would remove the plate on their dark blue CVPI so that their Skip would not notice they were from that state. Of course they failed to realize that local police would notice. We explained to them that they needed to put their plate back on. They weren't real swift either. They told us who and where their subject was supposed to be at and for us to call them if we saw this person. I guess they didn't realize that if we come in contact with a Felon with out of state warrants we HAVE to lodge him and allow the other state to extradite him. We can't exactly hand him over to civilians.

    ETA: They WERE legally carrying handguns and long guns and had body armor. It was an interesting stop for a few minutes.
    COMPENDIUM OF STATE BOUNTY HUNTER LAWS

    "(The sureties)***whenever they choose to do so may seize him and deliver him up to their discharge: and if this cannot be done at once, they may imprison him until it can be done. They may pursue him to another state; may arrest him on the Sabbath, and, if necessary, may break and enter his house for that purpose. The seizure is not made by virtue of new process. None is needed. It is likened to the rearrest by the sheriff of an escaping prisoner."

    United States Supreme Court: Taylor v Taintor 16 Wall, 36

    http://www.americanbailcoalition.com...compendium.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • J Bo1664
    Guest replied
    I dealt w/ one in our most urban, no woods, no trees area. He was standing by the road near a KFC. He was, and I am not kidding, wearing tiger stripe camo panys, shirt, boony hat, load bearing vest, coat, and boots, with an "Agent" badge around his neck. You have to know, this was at about 1400 hrs, with the closest tree about 400 yards away. I could not even talk to him, I was biting my lip trying not to laugh. Any way, they are usually full of crap. B safe, J-Bo

    Leave a comment:


  • Berlioz
    replied
    Originally posted by Gene L View Post
    I think you are reaching there. I would like to know what states allow Bondsman to violate people's civil rights or make arrests based on anything more than their civil contract with their "client".


    In seome states, cops can't serve a warrant on Sunday, or in certain hours of the night. Bail bondsmen can. Cops can't trespss on a person's property without an arrest warrant or a search warrant, because of Ammendment 4.

    Ammendment 4 only applies to the government, not to civilians. They can (as they do on the movies) sneak up and look thru windows, (if they don't gt caught) tape them up and throw them in the trunk of their car, can enter private dwellings by subterfuge, etc. In otherwords they can do anything that would otherwise be considered kidnapping if it wasn't for their status as a bailsbondsman.

    As I said, it's the same as a repro man...they have very few limits, since they are fullfilling a civil contract. A repro man pulls up into your driveway, hooks up, and drives off.

    A bondsman pulls up, hooks up the jumper, and drives off.

    There's nothing that says a bondsman can't carry a weapon because he's a bondsman, and a lot of states have reciprocity for CCW. So it depends on the state.
    So your saying these guys can burglarize people without consequence? Thats f'd up. Repomen cant break into garages or any private area and take the car...it has to be publicly accessable...driveways count, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • SgtCHP
    replied
    Originally posted by slamdunc View Post
    Since Illinois has the 10% rule (Illinois Bail Rule), they don't use bail bondsmen, nor bounty hunters. I don't know by what authority, other than security guard and/or private detective acts, they could carry firearms.
    I remember the case of a husband & wife team that came to this area to 'arrest' a person wanted on Florida warrants. They were told that the police arrest wanted persons, and that if they practiced their trade here, they could be subject to arrest for unlawful restraint and unlawful use of weapons.
    3. Illinois

    A statute enacted in 1963 designed to eliminate commercial bail bond industry. See Schilb v. Kuebel, 264 N.E.2d 377, 380 (Ill. 1970), aff'd 404 U.S. 357 (1971); Ill. Stat. Ch. 725 §§ 5/110-7, 5/110-8. "No bail bondsman from any state may seize or transport unwillingly any person found in this State who is allegedly in violation of a bail bond posted in some other state." Ill. Stat. Ch. 725 § 5/103-9.

    http://www.americanbailcoalition.com...ter%20Laws.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim1648
    replied
    Bounty Hunters?

    The term AGENT, if I recall correctly, originally comes from the railroad industry. Here is what http://www.merriam-webster.com/ shows:

    Main Entry:
    agent Listen to the pronunciation of agent
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈā-jənt\
    Function:
    noun
    Etymology:
    Middle English, from Medieval Latin agent-, agens, from Latin, present participle of agere to drive, lead, act, do; akin to Old Norse aka to travel in a vehicle, Greek agein to drive, lead
    Date:
    15th century

    1: one that acts or exerts power2 a: something that produces or is capable of producing an effect : an active or efficient cause b: a chemically, physically, or biologically active principle3: a means or instrument by which a guiding intelligence achieves a result4: one who is authorized to act for or in the place of another: as a: a representative, emissary, or official of a government b: one engaged in undercover activities (as espionage) : spy c: a business representative (as of an athlete or entertainer) 5: a computer application designed to automate certain tasks (as gathering information online)

    We have a business agent from our labor union that essentially represents us (labor) when dealing with management (them). So to me agent is a pretty generic term. In fact, I think the US government sort of took the term agent from the railroad industry and granted some investigators the title Special Agent. That is almost as bad as the word deputy. I am a deputy sheriff. I know people, however, that are:

    -deputy court clerks,

    -deputy fire chiefs,

    -deputy U.S. Marshals

    Again I will quote the dictionary:

    deputy

    Main Entry:
    dep·u·ty Listen to the pronunciation of deputy
    Pronunciation:
    \ˈde-pyə-tē\
    Function:
    noun
    Inflected Form(s):
    plural dep·u·ties
    Usage:
    often attributive
    Etymology:
    Middle English, from Anglo-French deputé, past participle of deputer
    Date:
    15th century

    1 a: a person appointed as a substitute with power to act b: a second in command or assistant who usually takes charge when his or her superior is absent 2: a member of the lower house of some legislative assemblies

    Here in the Minneapolis Saint Paul (MN) Twin Cities Metropolitan area we have had some people getting bent out of shape that CBP has the word POLICE on their raid jackets. If I recall correctly they thought that it is unfair that CBP used the word POLICE on their clothing because they are special agents and not police and may have had people deal differently with them and/or local police officers because of confusion between federal agents and local law enforcement officers.

    (Wasn't it Al Gore a few years back that had a way of pointing out the obvious and said, "...words mean things..."?)

    Leave a comment:


  • Gene L
    replied
    I think you are reaching there. I would like to know what states allow Bondsman to violate people's civil rights or make arrests based on anything more than their civil contract with their "client".


    In seome states, cops can't serve a warrant on Sunday, or in certain hours of the night. Bail bondsmen can. Cops can't trespss on a person's property without an arrest warrant or a search warrant, because of Ammendment 4.

    Ammendment 4 only applies to the government, not to civilians. They can (as they do on the movies) sneak up and look thru windows, (if they don't gt caught) tape them up and throw them in the trunk of their car, can enter private dwellings by subterfuge, etc. In otherwords they can do anything that would otherwise be considered kidnapping if it wasn't for their status as a bailsbondsman.

    As I said, it's the same as a repro man...they have very few limits, since they are fullfilling a civil contract. A repro man pulls up into your driveway, hooks up, and drives off.

    A bondsman pulls up, hooks up the jumper, and drives off.

    There's nothing that says a bondsman can't carry a weapon because he's a bondsman, and a lot of states have reciprocity for CCW. So it depends on the state.
    Last edited by Gene L; 11-02-2007, 05:53 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • JDCOP
    replied
    Basically Bounty hunters or whatever you want to call them are either Bondsman or people employed by Bondsman to bring a subject that missed court on a bond back to jail so they don't have to pay the full bond amount. Here in TN we do some laws in regards to Bondsman and Bounty hunters. They are suppose to have x amount of hours of training and can't have any felony convictions. They don't have any law enforcement power. They tend to push the line with impersonation but wearing something that says agent doesn't cross it. Most of the bounty hunters I have met were just idiots wearing a gun and gall's stock badge.

    Leave a comment:

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