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is there any department in the united states that allows for the use of a blackjack?

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  • is there any department in the united states that allows for the use of a blackjack?

    so in a previous post i asked if any old time cops ever used a blackjack, i'm curious, is there any law enforcement agency in the united states or it's territories that allows the use of a black jack? how would i find out?

    thank you

  • #2
    Originally posted by How To Police View Post
    so in a previous post i asked if any old time cops ever used a blackjack, i'm curious, is there any law enforcement agency in the united states or it's territories that allows the use of a black jack? how would i find out?

    thank you
    Why?

    Comment


    • How To Police
      How To Police commented
      Editing a comment
      blackjacks are extremely mysterious weapons, i have never seen a weapon with so little written about it, that is so strongly testified as to it's effectiveness for self defense.

  • #3
    Go to Blackjack.com and type in "law enforcement" in the search engine.

    Comment


    • #4
      Originally posted by How To Police View Post
      so in a previous post i asked if any old time cops ever used a blackjack, i'm curious, is there any law enforcement agency in the united states or it's territories that allows the use of a black jack? how would i find out?

      thank you
      How would you find out? By resisting arrest...

      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by CCCSD View Post

        Why?

        ^^^^^^ this

        Comment


        • #6
          I guess you could call every agency in the US and its territories.

          Comment


          • #7
            Outside of your curiosity, I’d have to say that, No, there aren’t any Depts in the US still actively using Dept issued and trained Blackjacks, or other similar weapons.

            Non firearm weapons mostly all fall under the category of defensive weapons for Dept liability. The old school PR24 most certainly does, even the newer style, collapsible batons can still be classified as defensive, although that’s clearly arguably.

            I think classifying a Blackjack as even remotely close to being a defensive weapon would be hard, and too much of a liability.

            Comment


            • How To Police
              How To Police commented
              Editing a comment
              > I think classifying a Blackjack as even remotely close to being a defensive weapon would be hard, and too much of a liability.

              why do you think so?

            • NolaT
              NolaT commented
              Editing a comment
              PRs were designed to be used as a defensive weapon as well as offensive, incorporating blocks with proper training.

              Collapsible batons aren’t really designed to be defensive as PRs, but I guess it could be argued if used in a sword like blocking motion.

              Blackjacks are from a totally different era, offensive only,….

            • Iowa #1603
              Iowa #1603 commented
              Editing a comment
              Nola T
              I knew the "inventor" of the PR 24. Google Lon Anderson PR24
              He was a Park Ranger in the county I later became a deputy in. He got beat up (badly) answering a call for service in 1970------and while recovering from his injuries studied martial arts.
              He quickly sold the idea to Monondock but worked for them for decades training

            • NolaT
              NolaT commented
              Editing a comment
              Cool story, ever hear how much he sold it for?

          • #8
            Originally posted by NolaT View Post
            I think classifying a Blackjack as even remotely close to being a defensive weapon would be hard, and too much of a liability.
            I suppose that depends on how it's used. If they're used as just another impact weapon, and follow the same rules, then I don't see how they would be any different than an expandable baton. Now, if they are used as they were back in the day...well, that's a different story.

            On an unrelated note, I'd rather perplexed by the OP's obsession with blackjacks and the like. They're mostly a tool relegated to historical LE and certainly haven't been in wide use in probably 30+ years.
            "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
            -Friedrich Nietzsche

            Comment


            • How To Police
              How To Police commented
              Editing a comment
              > On an unrelated note, I'd rather perplexed by the OP's obsession with blackjacks and the like. They're mostly a tool relegated to historical LE and certainly haven't been in wide use in probably 30+ years.

              at least on the internet i have seen hundreds of individual testimonies that a blackjack is the most effective less lethal self defense tool ever used by law enforcement, and it's just so strange to me that so little is written down about it.

          • #9
            You DO realize that the OP is looking for information for a cause, RIGHT?

            The user name gives him away.

            Comment


            • BNWS
              BNWS commented
              Editing a comment
              Let him chase his tail.

            • CCCSD
              CCCSD commented
              Editing a comment
              Read the bragging in his other post… Can’t believe guys dime themselves out that easy.

            • Bing_Oh
              Bing_Oh commented
              Editing a comment
              A "cause" based on an outdated tool mostly known only to the long-retired in LE? Good luck. I'm nearing retirement and have never seen one actually used. I suspect that most officers hired in the last 10+ years have never heard of them or know how they were used if they have.

              Whatever cause he may have, he's about 30 years too late.

          • #10
            Felonies have long lives, especially if they are against a protected class. Seems cops just can’t shut up…

            Enjoy the subpoenas.

            Comment


            • BNWS
              BNWS commented
              Editing a comment
              You're right.... Although the UOF I described was deemed justified by my agency, the DA and the courts I have deleted in an effort to derail the troll.

          • #11
            Originally posted by CCCSD View Post
            Felonies have long lives, especially if they are against a protected class. Seems cops just can’t shut up…

            Enjoy the subpoenas.
            Subpoenas. For vague incidents recounted on a random internet message board that may or may not have happened at some unspecified time in the past, in an unidentified jurisdiction, involving unknown subjects, by someone who may have been an LEO in the past 50 years. With all due respect, CCCSD, your tinfoil hat may be on too tight.

            If I were to make a guess, I'd say that it's much more likely the OP's profile that he's a security guard is true and he thinks blackjacks are "cool" and wants one to carry as opposed to him being a secret agent trying to weasel confessions from retired cops online.
            "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
            -Friedrich Nietzsche

            Comment


            • #12
              The lack of any distance whatsoever is still the biggest drawback of ever wanting to carry one, even back in the I’d guess.

              Comment


              • #13
                Originally posted by NolaT View Post
                The lack of any distance whatsoever is still the biggest drawback of ever wanting to carry one, even back in the I’d guess.
                Nope We carried them AND used them (frequently I may add)

                Tactics have changed dramatically since the 1970's /1980's when these were being phased out. They were original issue in the 40's/50's and were the primary impact weapon after the billy club.....once again close in weapons. The next escalation was a fire arm.


                I carried mine in an appendix position where I could get to it with my "weak" hand. You smacked someone on the forearm and whatever they were carrying OR holding on to (like your partner, your other hand, or a weapon ) was dropped instantly

                A smack to the knee or back of the knee and the person was on the ground with virtually no ill effects.. Same with a smack to the outer thigh or shin.

                A smack to the side of the head and they went to sleep -------sometimes for longer than you wanted but RARELY a fatal blow especially if it was a slapper and not a lead ball on a spring type billy.

                It was fun times in a bar fight in my younger days.......................................
                My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                Comment


                • #14
                  Ha,….different times for sure.

                  I remember non collapsible PRs, huge Maglights, speed loaders, grey “brick-like” Motorolas, rotating dash lights, tall square, rotating light bars, and the huge step up from S/W to the 92F, but black jacks were way before me,………

                  Comment


                  • Iowa #1603
                    Iowa #1603 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I started at the prison in 1976........on patrol in 1978

                    We had DUMP POUCHES,then 12 round Belt Loop holders before Speed loaders and finally mag pouches......

                    I personally knew Lon Anderson the inventor of the PR24...actually developer for law enforcement because it was originally an Asian rice harvesting tool. He worked as a Park Ranger in my county before he got famous

                    First qualification was with a S&W Model 10
                    Last edited by Iowa #1603; 10-11-2022, 10:48 PM.

                • #15
                  Some uniform trousers came with sap pockets on the right leg as late as the early '80s. I never knew anyone that carried a sap.

                  Comment


                  • Aidokea
                    Aidokea commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Mine still had sap pockets behind both legs when I retired in 2019. The youngsters didn't know what they were originally for.

                  • LA DEP
                    LA DEP commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Our patrol uniform pants still have sap pockets behind both legs

                    Saps are also still an authorized impact weapon

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