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  • What are the odds

    Good morning,

    This will be a quite lengthy post. I want you to have the full picture before you cast your judgements and opinions. I will firstly start by stating I respect the opinions you all share. Okay lets crack right into it.

    A marine vet with a clean DD214/ Honorable discharge. Joined the marines to get experience for public service. I was torn between fire and police. After I got out of the marines I completed a wildlands fire season, and finished a fire academy/EMT school. The academy taught me a lot, and enjoyed a large majority of the work. Although I still want to go after a career in law enforcement, and later down the road work in arson investigation. I have applied for the Seattle Police Department where my standings after the exam is 11 out of 153 for applicants. I have the next two steps scheduled which include the PAT exam, in-person background investigation, and oral boards. The PAT I will be fine. That doesn't concern me one bit, but the background investigation does. In fact its the reason why I'm sitting down typing this out currently.

    In December 2016, I made the biggest mistake I have ever made, and it still haunts me to this day. The girl that I was dating and I got into an argument, and there was Alcohol involved, and I was charged with 13-1203A1 Mis DV Assa. and 13-Z904A Disordely. I ****ed up royally, but I took it upon myself to get counseling and work with the VA. The charges were dismissed by the judge, and I got the help I needed. It will never happen again. I got out of that relationship, and moved. Although for some reason I went back to online dating with tinder, and landed myself in another situation. No arrests/ no charges. I was dating a CPS agent out of nashville in early 2019, and she was heavy into drugs to cope with the job. I told her she needed to get her act together or I was going to report her, and she put an OP on me. Funny how that worked... Look I put myself in that position. I should of walked the **** away. Not my job to counsel her. I know better know. I have completely stopped the online dating.

    After I ditched the online dating I actually met my current fiancé, she has her life put together. She is a cardiologist. Life is ****ing great. I am wondering what my likelihood is with those two incidents on my record. I feel completely embarrassed by them both, and I have learned a lot from them both... the hard way. I have never had performance issues at work. Never had any tardiness issues at work. Hell I havent been written up at work since I was 19. My credit score is so/so its nothing impressive but its nothing where I have to be worried about. I think that I have less than 1350 in debt. The only thing that concerns me is the DV charge/dismissal.

    Alright ladies and gents. That's all I got.


  • #2
    Originally posted by Usmc_Sam_91 View Post
    Good morning,

    This will be a quite lengthy post. I want you to have the full picture before you cast your judgements and opinions. I will firstly start by stating I respect the opinions you all share. Okay lets crack right into it.

    A marine vet with a clean DD214/ Honorable discharge. Joined the marines to get experience for public service. I was torn between fire and police. After I got out of the marines I completed a wildlands fire season, and finished a fire academy/EMT school. The academy taught me a lot, and enjoyed a large majority of the work. Although I still want to go after a career in law enforcement, and later down the road work in arson investigation. I have applied for the Seattle Police Department where my standings after the exam is 11 out of 153 for applicants. I have the next two steps scheduled which include the PAT exam, in-person background investigation, and oral boards. The PAT I will be fine. That doesn't concern me one bit, but the background investigation does. In fact its the reason why I'm sitting down typing this out currently.

    In December 2016, I made the biggest mistake I have ever made, and it still haunts me to this day. The girl that I was dating and I got into an argument, and there was Alcohol involved, and I was charged with 13-1203A1 Mis DV Assa. and 13-Z904A Disordely. I ****ed up royally, but I took it upon myself to get counseling and work with the VA. The charges were dismissed by the judge, and I got the help I needed. It will never happen again. I got out of that relationship, and moved. Although for some reason I went back to online dating with tinder, and landed myself in another situation. No arrests/ no charges. I was dating a CPS agent out of nashville in early 2019, and she was heavy into drugs to cope with the job. I told her she needed to get her act together or I was going to report her, and she put an OP on me. Funny how that worked... Look I put myself in that position. I should of walked the **** away. Not my job to counsel her. I know better know. I have completely stopped the online dating.

    After I ditched the online dating I actually met my current fiancé, she has her life put together. She is a cardiologist. Life is ****ing great. I am wondering what my likelihood is with those two incidents on my record. I feel completely embarrassed by them both, and I have learned a lot from them both... the hard way. I have never had performance issues at work. Never had any tardiness issues at work. Hell I havent been written up at work since I was 19. My credit score is so/so its nothing impressive but its nothing where I have to be worried about. I think that I have less than 1350 in debt. The only thing that concerns me is the DV charge/dismissal.

    Alright ladies and gents. That's all I got.
    Saved. Just because...

    Comment


    • #3
      ANY DV issues are going to be a HUGE issue at several points in the hiring process, if not an outright disqualifier.

      But two have had TWO DV incidents in about the last 5 years? I would be flabbergasted if you could EVER get hired.

      And why on earth would you want to work for the Seattle Police Department?

      Comment


      • #4
        Aidokea,

        That is somewhat correct. 1 DV charge, and one OP.
        Yes I see your point I am flabbergasted as well. Sort of why I am wondering what you all have to say.

        Why Seattle Police Department?
        Not smart enough to go to college, and lazy enough to not want to work. Free Entertainment? joking.

        I enjoy mountaineering when I am not working, and unless some tectonic plates shift in Tennessee im SOL here. My fiance and I took a trip to Washington State back in September; we visited all the national parks and decided to give it a go. She landed a job at Swedish Hospital, and I took a PMC job for contracting. Although I want something more stable. Policing and law enforcement has been a passion. I know fire isn't as strict; especially not wild lands. Although I do not want to be deployed all the time or out in the woods of cali on a burn. I know there are several departments around Seattle that would be great, but I was thinking since they are having a little bit of an issue then maybe some expectations could be made. I get that the minimum standards are the minimum standard. Not having a felony conviction should be minimum for life in general and not having a domestic violence conviction should be as well. Although I really ****ed up man. Trust me it was awful. Although I look at the positives out of it. One I got counseling to learn out to communicate more effectively. Does wonders. Trust me. As well the case was dropped/dismissed. Those are two awesome outcomes. Now is LE is never going to be in the cards that fine. I just cant see myself doing PMC forever.

        Usmc_Sam_91
        Forum Member
        Last edited by Usmc_Sam_91; 01-07-2022, 02:52 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          So, I'll just come right out as ask...why do you think any agency would decide to take the risk with you? What do you have to offer that could possibly overcome TWO past DV-related incidents?

          DV is considered a serious indicator of underlying violent tendencies. There's a reason that someone with a DV conviction is not permitted to own or possess a firearm. LE is a stressful profession that requires the utmost control of ones emotions. Two previous DV incidents do not bode well for your ability to control your emotions and are indicators of potential violent tendencies. While they are not, in of of themselves, considered automatic DQ's, such incidents will be heavily scrutinized and you will likely find them to be your undoing for many hiring processes.
          "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
          -Friedrich Nietzsche

          Comment


          • #6
            Marine is spelled with a capital M.

            Domestic Violence is a very touchy subject, without a conviction it may be possible, but the Full story will be dug up. I guess it'll depend on the circumstances of why you weren't convicted.

            By OP, you're referring to an order of protection, correct? This was filed by another female after the original DV, which is only five years old?!

            Five years is very fresh, and past performance is usually a good indicator of future performance. I think it'll be an uphill battle, but you may get on somewhere in a third rung or worse Dept, it won't be a very desirable place though. Expect many rejections, but you never know.

            Semper Fi
            0311

            Comment


            • #7
              Bing_Oh,

              Thank you for your statement.

              Comment


              • #8
                Nola,

                I can see the DV charge being looked into. That makes sense.

                As well yes OP- Order of Protection. That is correct.

                As well I want to get this straight; So clean military record/no work performance issues ever not taken into consideration by you. Two issues are. Thank you for your statement.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nationwide, most all Depts are shorthanded and desperately looking for recruits, but DV is a huge Albatross. Most Desirable Depts would prefer to remain understaffed than hire anyone questionable. LEO's have huge responsibilities and discretionary latitude in daily contact.

                  Veteran status means little. Beyond the occasional, "Thanks for your service." comment, most people don't care. Don't expect people to treat you any differently,......the public doesn't care about its veterans.

                  As far as a clean work performance history, that's EXPECTED. You're not supposed to have negative employment baggage.

                  Good Luck
                  NolaT
                  Forum Member
                  Last edited by NolaT; 01-07-2022, 03:17 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Gotcha, I figured that would be the case with the veteran preference. Although you'd think serving in a very strict work environment and leaving honorably would mean something. As well as putting your country first, but hey with everything the way it is I agree with you. Did not expect much from it.

                    At the end of the day it was dismissed with prejudice. Its done and over with. An ambient ptsd episode. I am embarrassed and sorry for it. As well as the OP. That sucked. I have learned from my mistakes. I cleaned up my life. I am in a great spot. Things are going great! I would like to be in a working environment with a team again outside of contracting. The civvy life doesn't share the same values and work ethic that I have, and every job that I have worked in the civilian sector has not be satisfying for me in the slightest. Contracting is decent. The pay is great. I just want more time state side.

                    From everyone's comments so far it looks like I just spent a grand on flights and hotels for nothing but hey one thing the Marines has taught me is to never give up.

                    I will need all the luck I can get.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You do realize that any UoF you get into will result in your DV history being brought up, RIGHT?

                      Comment


                      • Usmc_Sam_91
                        Usmc_Sam_91
                        Forum Member
                        Usmc_Sam_91 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        CCC SD,

                        I am not aware of the acronym UoF. I know am going to have to explain it with out question. Ive talked to many officers out of Nashville. I did my fire academy in the city, and they are maybe all biased because they know me but what has been consistently said by most of them is " You were never convicted of it, and the charges were dismissed; Answer any of the questions they ask."

                      • tanksoldier
                        tanksoldier commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Use of Force. CCCSD is saying if you ever use force, and get sued or charged, your DV will be brought up as evidence you can’t control yourself.

                      • Usmc_Sam_91
                        Usmc_Sam_91
                        Forum Member
                        Usmc_Sam_91 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        To all,

                        I could see how the department itself or any government agency would be able to use that as ammunition in a potential UoF case. I doubt any civilians would have access to that information. I mean there isn't even anything to expunge. The case was dropped; all charges were dropped. I assuming the only liability I would have is from the department I work for, all hypothetical of course. I think its definitely worth a shot to continue on with the application process. I know some one commented earlier that PD's would rather remain at a staffing shortage than hire underqualified applicants, but considering my exam scores, military/contracting experience, and working in extremely stressful environments I do not think I am underqualified at all; I made a/ 2 mistakes, I've owned it, and worked on bettering myself. I've honestly received so many responses and input on this topic; Quite frankly most of the comments on this site and others like it have all be doomsday spiral logic. Given its always best to plan for the worst and be prepared. We shall see. I will keep those that care informed but I think Ive reached enough info to make an informed decision.

                      • CCCSD
                        CCCSD
                        Shadowman
                        CCCSD commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Your criminal history is available by Court Order. You are a fool if you think it’s staying secret. Guess all that “LE” training you took didn’t cover actual Law.

                    • #12
                      This will be a quite lengthy post. I want you to have the full picture before you cast your judgements and opinions. I will firstly start by stating I respect the opinions you all share. Okay lets crack right into it.
                      The questions to always ask are:

                      What makes you stand out from other applicants?
                      Why should a department hire you instead of somebody just like you, but without your baggage?

                      Your “pro” side is weak. Most of your competitors will be veterans, with clean work histories and at least some college. The firefighter thing isn’t bad but you did only one season.

                      Your “con” side is heavy. You admit the charged DV incident happened, and that you had another uncharged incident. You went to the trouble to complete the fire academy, but are giving it up after one season which looks capricious and inconsistent.

                      To improve your chances I’d get your military training and fire academy converted to college credit and then round it out into an AA degree. Keep working in fire or EMS in some capacity, that will look better than dropping it after one fire season. To be honest, since you already have your foot in the door there I’d stay on that side of public service.

                      Why Seattle Police Department?
                      Not smart enough to go to college, and lazy enough to not want to work. Free Entertainment? joking.
                      I wouldn’t work in Washington State, and Seattle is probably the worst of it. Great people with crappy leadership and politicians actively working against them. The restrictions Washington cops have to work under make it both virtually impossible and dangerous to do cop work.

                      At the end of the day it was dismissed with prejudice. Its done and over with.
                      In law enforcement there is more to it than that.

                      Dismissed for lack of probable cause isn’t the same as dismissed after a deferred sentencing or deferred prosecution. The first means there was insufficient evidence to arrest…. The other two are admissions of guilt, but the prosecutor allows you to attend counseling, victim impact sessions or other measures in return for the charges being dropped. Since you admit the incident happened I’m guessing there wasn’t insufficient probable cause and it was one of the other two. That’s a much bigger deal.

                      ​​​….and you’ve had two such incidents.

                      You should seriously think about staying on the fire or EMS side. You might still have problems, they have their rules too, but your foot is in the door.

                      ​​​​​​…or reenlist.
                      Last edited by tanksoldier; 01-07-2022, 07:09 PM.
                      "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." -- GEN George S. Patton, Jr.

                      "With a brother on my left and a sister on my right, we face…. We face what no one should face. We face, so no one else would face. We are in the face of Death." -- Holli Peet

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Usmc_Sam_91 View Post
                        Gotcha, I figured that would be the case with the veteran preference. Although you'd think serving in a very strict work environment and leaving honorably would mean something. As well as putting your country first, but hey with everything the way it is I agree with you. Did not expect much from it.

                        At the end of the day it was dismissed with prejudice. Its done and over with. An ambient ptsd episode. I am embarrassed and sorry for it. As well as the OP. That sucked. I have learned from my mistakes. I cleaned up my life. I am in a great spot. Things are going great! I would like to be in a working environment with a team again outside of contracting. The civvy life doesn't share the same values and work ethic that I have, and every job that I have worked in the civilian sector has not be satisfying for me in the slightest. Contracting is decent. The pay is great. I just want more time state side.

                        From everyone's comments so far it looks like I just spent a grand on flights and hotels for nothing but hey one thing the Marines has taught me is to never give up.

                        I will need all the luck I can get.
                        What caused your PTSD? What was your MOS? Do you have a disability rating?

                        How are you getting PMC contracts with a history of PTSD? What is your job? Are you a filing clerk, or a trigger puller, or what? This is not 2005 anymore...
                        Aidokea
                        Forum Member
                        Last edited by Aidokea; 01-07-2022, 07:01 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Usmc_Sam_91 View Post
                          So clean military record/no work performance issues ever not taken into consideration by you. Two issues are. Thank you for your statement.
                          A clean military OR civilian work history means absolutely NOTHING if there is a history of domestic violence. You have TWO very recent "incidents" that closely mimic a DV situation.

                          It doesn't matter if the charges were dropped or not. The meat and potatoes of what actually happened will be investigated and the truth of the matter will be what will be used to make a decision. That all happens in the background investigation phase.....if it gets that far

                          MOST every police administrator will look at ANY instance of violence in your past with a fine tooth comb and any hint that there is an ongoing problem will be a death sentence

                          NO CHIEF or SHERIFF wants to hire the next Drew Peterson
                          My new word for the day is FOCUS, when someone irritates you tell them to FOCUS

                          Comment


                          • Usmc_Sam_91
                            Usmc_Sam_91
                            Forum Member
                            Usmc_Sam_91 commented
                            Editing a comment
                            That's understood. No one wants to hire a Loose Cannon. I get that.

                            Also I expected nothing less. We shall see what they have to say about it.

                        • #15
                          Originally posted by Aidokea View Post

                          You have PTSD too? What from?

                          The Marines.

                          Comment


                          • Aidokea
                            Aidokea
                            Forum Member
                            Aidokea commented
                            Editing a comment
                            That's not an answer. Go back and answer the rest of my questions.

                          • Usmc_Sam_91
                            Usmc_Sam_91
                            Forum Member
                            Usmc_Sam_91 commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Your Original comment was not that in depth. It has since been edited.

                            Your original comment was answered. Next time complete your thought, and you will get the answer you are looking for. You are sir are not getting any more of my time after this post.

                            I have trigger time, 0311/0324; as well as half the guys contracting have issues. Everyone that's stepped foot over there has some sort of issue. You are right its 2022. Things have changed but not as rapidly as the issues that come from such a job.

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