Right-of-Way?

[Sunny71]

Unfortunately, earlier today I got into my first accident. I was hit by another driver.

She was very uncooperative and actually claimed, at one point, that I scared her. This despite the age and size difference -- me much younger and shorter. I'll admit that I was a little hyper (/excited), but I was not aggressive. I was assertive, I wasn't going to allow her to pass this off on me, but at no point did I disrespect her.

Anyway, after 30-40 minutes of BSing (I didn't want to leave until she did, afraid she was going to try to claim a hit and run) she ultimately called the police and two cars responded and then they both got onto her because she had refused to give me her address and telephone number. I had provided her with both though I did later scratch out my phone number when she said she wasn't going to give me hers.

They had us fill out these forms providing each other with everything. But, they didn't file an accident report. Was this because we both have insurance?

My car suffered no immediately obvious damages -- though later, after a closer inspection, I noticed that my entire front bumper seems misaligned and parts of it is slightly cracked, on the passenger side. I have no idea of any additional structural damages, at this time. My front license plate (& the frame) was also bent inward/crumpled -- I'm assuming that's where she hit me and it's probably what buffered me from more severe/obvious damage.

Her car, on the other hand, has a HUGE dent, probably 6-8 inches wide and it's as deep as 2-3 inches in one corner (apparently where we impacted) shaped like a triangle. It's on her driver-side door, 3-4 inches below the door handle on the back panel (though, strangely, not on the door itself).

I told both officers my version of the incident and they agreed that it is perfectly legal to be out in the middle of a median (where people make U-turns, etc.) so long as I'm not blocking traffic.

OK, I crossed to the middle after the South Bound traffic cleared. I was then waiting in the center until the North Bound traffic cleared, to merge with them. I was headed North.

Meanwhile, the North Bound people who needed to make a U-turn or cross to the other side of the street (West) were able to do so, behind me. I was slanted almost completely sideways to make sure I was out of everyones way, including South Bound people needing to make a U-turn.

Well, this woman was going North Bound but evidently decided she wanted to turn left (not right) there too except that she had already passed the line of (4-6) cars making U-turns. She choose instead to attempt to go around me, since I was just sitting there and I guess she figured it was a way to not have to wait behind all of the other people turning from off the North Bound side. That's when we collided.

We met with a noticeable thump -- I knew something had hit me -- but never having been in an accident I didn't think something that seemingly minor could be anything serious.

Immediately, she storms out of her vehicle (in the middle of the road) asking me what was I thinking. I'm stunned for all of 5 seconds, shocked that this is actually happening and horrified when I see the dent in the side of her car. Certain that if her car looks like that mine most look something similar.

However, I refused to get out and discuss anything in the median, directing her to instead cross over (as she was intent on doing anyway) into the parking lot on the West side of the street. (I think this is what frightened her because I kind of commanded her to go over there, which was rude but I didn't feel much like risking my life.)

This is the same parking lot that I had initially came from, a gas station.

Anyway, probably too late to bore you but I wanted some opinions, please. My greatest fear right now is that she's going to claim she wasn't attempting a turn and that I instead drove out into traffic, hitting her. Except I think it'll be hard to explain why we were both in the median. Right?

We were both there because she came over there, attempting a turn. I wasn't paying much attention to her because I assumed, when she passed me, she was going straight, plus I was still waiting for the traffic to clear on the North Bound side.

Unfortunately, no witnesses came forward, though everyone was looking (especially when she tried to stand in the middle of the road). This was during lunch hour so that's slightly understandable but I do wish someone, anyone, would have pulled over. I knew from go (when she asked what was I thinking) that she was full of it.

Additionally, the huge dent in her car seems inexplicable, to me. I just can't determine what on my car could have caused that, considering that my license plate is pretty flat and low, and my bumper is even lower. The dent on her car is so high I just don't see how my car managed it. Plus the dent is only deep in one corner. Wouldn't something pointy or small and blunt have to cause that?

My real concern is that she already had this HUGE dent and she's simply trying to scapegoat me. I didn't see any other dents but then there weren't any on mine either. Is this typical? For there to be no visible damages? And/or for there to be more apparent damages on one vehicle? Is this used to determine fault?

I did take pics on my cellphone but there's no way to get them off without submitting to another 2-years with Sprint, and I'm just not that desperate yet. :-)

But, I will attach a MSN Map image of the median, so you all can get an idea of just how I managed to be out there and not blocking traffic. :-)



Also, here's a car like hers: http://ivo.nu/photos/thunderbird/AUT_8808 (Her dent is above that line below the door handle though not on the door at all, only on the door panel -- it's flush to the crack of her door. My insurance agent pointed this out.)
And mine: http://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicle...e/overview.jsp (I think my tires are 16 inches but I don't think that raises my bumper high enough to hit her above that line.)

The officers didn't side with either of us, that I could tell, though the lady seemed a little ticked that the officers were nice to me. I think she expected them to come and beat me up. Can they serve as witnesses, in anyway, despite that there wasn't a report? They were discussing, with each other, what likely happened and they didn't seem to blame me.

I also wanted to mention we waited another 20-25 minutes after the officers had settled the issue to leave because, apparently, she still didn't want to leave. Though, if she honestly did get that dent today I can understand her devastation. My eyes were pretty watery until I actually looked to see my damages. Though I am still really anxious and worried about this. I hope it won't increase my insurance rate, I hope it doesn't negatively effect me in any way.

This all just feels like a nightmare, and all because someone decided their time was more valuable than another person. This could have easily ended worse. I started to ask her what would she have done if I were pregnant? Or if I had a kid in the car??? Not that me alone shouldn't matter.

[Gene L]

The insurance company usually settles such issues. They look at the accident report, call each other, and work out a deal. I know this because I talked to insurance agents.

[Sunny71]

The insurance company usually settles such issues. They look at the accident report, call each other, and work out a deal. I know this because I talked to insurance agents.

But what if she lies? Are the damages taken into consideration? Does it matter that mine seem fewer than hers? I'm still really shocked that I don't have more noticeable damages. No one can tell I was even in an accident. But I'm really worried that she already had that HUGE dent in her car already. I don't know how to prove it without measuring but it just doesn't seem possible. Considering the front of my car collided with the (driver's) side of hers. I don't know if the officers wondered the same -- I didn't until my insurance agent pointed it out. I'm assuming, though, that the officers won't do a CSI-type recreation for me. :-) But, from experience, can't you tell who was at fault by the damages, etc.?

[School Cop]

They had us fill out these forms providing each other with everything. But, they didn't file an accident report. Was this because we both have insurance?

Did they give you a blue form? If so, it has to do with the amount of damage done. If it is less than $1000 to each vehicle, they don't have to file a Peace Officer's Crash Report - they can "blue-form" it and leave the responsibility to you. There will still be a record of which officers were there, though, if it comes to that. In my agency, we would file a short incident report, as an internal document to justify what we were doing. I really don't think you'll need to worry about any of that, though, for a minor fender-bender. Good luck.

[irishdep]

good Luck!

[Sunny71]

Did they give you a blue form? If so, it has to do with the amount of damage done. If it is less than $1000 to each vehicle, they don't have to file a Peace Officer's Crash Report - they can "blue-form" it and leave the responsibility to you. There will still be a record of which officers were there, though, if it comes to that. In my agency, we would file a short incident report, as an internal document to justify what we were doing. I really don't think you'll need to worry about any of that, though, for a minor fender-bender. Good luck.

They gave us yellow forms, with just basic information. Both cars were driveable and the dent on her car was not on the door, so it didn't prevent her from opening it, etc.

However, I just spoke to my agent and he said that she called and admitted to him that she did attempt to drive around me (to enter the parking lot on the West side), while I was waiting in the median.

She's still claiming that I hit her, though.

I know that I did not move, I was still waiting for the North Bound traffic to clear. I truly regret that I didn't look to my left to see her, I just didn't think anyone was fool enough to try to go around me like that.

Don't I have the right-of-way in this situation? I was out in the median and she tried to go around me. So, she basically passed me and then tried to go around me, since I was stationary.

This is a very busy little area but the South Bound traffic was still pretty clear while everything behind me (the other North Bound traffic attempting U-turns and turns at that median) were pretty clogged up.

So, I know that she went around me like that to avoid that line of waiting cars. But isn't that line where she has to turn if she wants to turn to the left right there?

Doesn't that make her in the wrong? To go around me like that?

Plus, I was technically going "right" to merge, while she was going left. I know this will come down to a she-said she-said issue so I want to determine my right-of-way in general.

[Sunny71]

good Luck!

Thanks.

[Sunny71]

Also, while I'm still unable to upload those pics from my phone I did have more people look at them for me, for their opinions, and one new thing we've noticed is that the bottom panel of her side panel (below the dividing line) is dented in a little -- this is where my bumper had to impact. It's like a 8-12 inch long curve in that lower line, below that "line-thing" below her door handle.



I still don't see how my car could have managed to cause the larger dent, located above that line that separates the two panels on her door and side panels. The smaller indentation below that "main line" makes a lot more sense considering the degree of damages to my own car -- and my car is primarily made of plastic!

Yet my bumper, while it is slightly off track, there are only a few cracks, and the two larger ones look like cracks in the paint. Only a crack at the bottom of my bumper, on the passenger side, fully broke through, but it looks like a 3-4 inch black line. I thought it was dirt until my insurance agent checked it out more thoroughly.

[JSD73]

Well you've thoroughly confused me and I cant even begin to see the accident in my minds eye. You weren't blue formed, you've technically been put into a civil matter in which you and your insurance companies will have to fight it out. Since you signed forms and exchanged information as required by law, with no incident or accident # it is now between the two of you. The officers cleverly got out of anything to do with your accident.

[redbird07]

It all depends on the states requirements for report writing in relation to accidents. Here we only write accidents in the following circumstances.

Death
Injury
Disabling damage
DUI
Pursit -Related crashes.

It sounds like you tried to do the right thing. Just remember that she may have been all "hyped" up and ticked off. Different people react to stressful situations differently. Just take it in stride and move on . Be professional and be the bigger person throughout this whole ordeal. If she is trying to lie about the damages being sustained during your colission, it will most likely surface in a court appearance. Just stay cool and calm in your testimony and dealings with everyone involved in this process. The officers will not be witnesses for insurance purposes due to the fact that they didnt witness the collission. The damages could have been sustained during the accident. The physics involved in vehicle collissions can surprise you sometimes.

Just remember. She has already shown herself to be a jerk throughout this whole ordeal (according to your post). Dont stoop to her level. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...........you get the picture.

Good Luck

Stay the bigger person

[Sunny71]

I hope this image better explains what I was trying to say. The rectangles are as close to scale as I can estimate but, as you can see in the satellite image, this median is huge, like 3-4 car lengths wide. People routinely cross over and sit in that median, and the responding officers said that that was not illegal, so long as you're not blocking traffic.



My car is the pink rectangle and I was waiting in the "median area" for traffic to clear on the North Bound side. The other driver, green, was North Bound but decided to turn into the parking lot on the West side of the street, at that median.

Now, while several other North Bound drivers were making U-turns and turns into the West-side parking lot behind me, I think she simply didn't want to wait her turn and saw the opening in front of me and decided to try to slip through it.

She's claiming that she was simply sitting there, in the median. I'm claiming the same!

She was not sitting there -- the only way for her to have gotten there was by going around me -- I mean, I was the reason she had to go that far over in the first place. Plus, if she was there before me how did she hit me from my right?

Of course, we're both claiming the other hit the other. But I believe she's in the wrong regardless because she had no right to try to go around me like that. That kind of maneuver is just begging for an accident to happen. I believe it was reckless and negligent and totally inconsiderate to even attempt something like that.

I was hoping the officers could testify based on experience, assuming they've seen a lot of accidents, thus can more easily deduce how things happened. However, I now realize the insurance people are pretty adept at this, too -- but they are biased. Though even her insurance people reacted after I think I made it a little clearer what she was attempting. Without pictures it's really hard to "see" what I'm saying.

Both estimators came by on Wednesday, though the one from her insurance didn't even let me know he was there, so I didn't get to show him my damages -- though I had already explained over the phone. The one from my insurance said that my car's bumper is likely extensively damaged, under the plastic. He said that the whole thing probably bent inward but then popped back out, that's why it has the cracks from the impact. He said the whole bumper needs to be replaced, because the metal and foam (or whatever) is probably damaged beneath the plastic.

He also measured the height of my bumper, I'm assuming to compare it to the height of the HUGE dent on her car, and the smaller dent closer to the bottom of her car.

Meanwhile, she keeps harassing my insurance agent claiming she just wants her car fixed. At least she's not claiming she's injured! But, it doesn't seem all that modest when you consider that she could probably get $1000, when she doesn't deserve anything.

As to that yellow form, I didn't sign it, I didn't even get a good look at the one given to her. The officers filled both out, and then circled at the bottom that no accident report was made.

Can a report be made after the fact? Though, I don't believe that's necessary, I think it's been established that it did happen.

Anyways, I haven't heard back for 2 days but I've decided to just let whatever happen happen. I'll stress later, if necessary, because this has truly been driving me insane.

[Sunny71]

So, her company denied my claim, stating I failed to yield the right of way.

Meanwhile, my insurance says the adjuster is out until Wednesday and no one except him can tell me the status of the claim. Despite its obvious effect on me.

So, I'm assuming that's not a good sign. Add to that my agent avoiding my calls -- I think he is intentionally because there's no way he's on a 2 hour lunch -- and things just aren't looking to good, for me.

Just to kind of gage what to expect I filled out the form at Geico and their quote is TWICE as much as I currently pay. TWICE! I don't know specifics about the cost of damages so I selected the maximum ($1,001 +) and I also listed that the accident happened this month.

I still can't believe one incident can double your rate. Now I see why people complain about having to have these policies because you can go years paying them for nothing and the moment something happens they treat you like a step child.

[RedRaider911]

based on the picture you live in the metroplex. if that is the case then you are lucky to even have officers show up. They blue formed the accident which puts the responsibility onto to you and the other driver. This makes it harder to work out insurance claims, but keeps your insurance premiums lower. Where i work we write accident reports for almost every accident. WHile this clarify's the claim process, it causes insurance premiums to be rediculously high. This is because our town shows more accidents each year then DFW.

[Gene L]

So, her company denied my claim, stating I failed to yield the right of way.

Meanwhile, my insurance says the adjuster is out until Wednesday and no one except him can tell me the status of the claim. Despite its obvious effect on me.

So, I'm assuming that's not a good sign. Add to that my agent avoiding my calls -- I think he is intentionally because there's no way he's on a 2 hour lunch -- and things just aren't looking to good, for me.

Just to kind of gage what to expect I filled out the form at Geico and their quote is TWICE as much as I currently pay. TWICE! I don't know specifics about the cost of damages so I selected the maximum ($1,001 +) and I also listed that the accident happened this month.

I still can't believe one incident can double your rate. Now I see why people complain about having to have these policies because you can go years paying them for nothing and the moment something happens they treat you like a step child.

Never talk to the other person's insurance company. They will ALWAYS deny your claim. This is SOP.

What really happens is the two adjusters from your and her company get together and reach a compromise. If they think 20% of the fault was yours, they adjust to that. If they think (unlikely) that 100% of the fault was hers, they'll go with that.

Problem is, if it happened on private property there are no state laws governning who has the right of way.

[Sunny71]

I do live in the Metroplex, this all happened in Arlington. I think she called the police complaining she was scared of me, which they dismissed as soon as they saw me. I mean, please. I should have been afraid! Especially when I didn't know if she was on the phone all that time calling for backup. :-)

Also, I later realized she never actually gave me her information, even after the police arrived. The information on her yellow form was her husband's information.

But, I wanted to let everyone know that my insurance denied her claim! :-) My adjuster said that he closed the case. Her insurance also denied my claim but I think the confusion was in her account.

She was trying to give an entirely different impression of that median. The adjuster from my insurance seemed to be on her side until he saw the satellite images.

I'm hoping this is all over. But, if my insurance wants to get my car checked and fix it if something is wrong with it that's great but I really don't think anything structural was damaged. I just want to be back to where I was a month ago, with none of this worrying. But, I think that claim will stay on my record since it's listed on my account on my insurance's website.