Lane-splitting at 15-25 MPH on the I-5

[OfficerDotCom]

Thread closed due to personal attacks and offensive language. Use of profanity will result in suspension of a user's forum account, with or without the profanity filters.

First I want to comment on the quota statement someone made

We all know about quotas…. They don’t officially exist but performance standards sure do. If you are a traffic officer writing only 5 tickets a month we know you are going to be in the office explaining why you are not writing tickets or doing your job, so everone does their job, some just like to write tickets. I never did that's just me

I will speak from a position of ignorance on the lane splitting law in CA.. I don’t work there so I don’t have any experience to draw from. However it does seem like there is some room for interpretation and to what may be deemed safe or not safe. With that being said LEO’s in general are expected to use their best judgment in applying the law.

I may have chosen to apply the law in a different manner. Example:

I ride so I know the difference between a squid and an experienced rider. What I deem safe for a squid is sure different from what I deem safe for an experienced rider. Given that the rider sounded more on the experienced end of the scale, my best guess not being there, would be that I would have given the lecture and moved on.

As far as the guys plight? Dude your pretty much screwed we all know that the chances of you winning the ticket if it goes to court. The court will give more weight to the officers opinion that it was an unsafe action, find you guilty and that is that.

Your best option is to find a fix it lawyer and see what he can do for you.

[Fuzz]

My post sceams otherwise? Because I split at more then 6MPH? Give me a break. Please also show me where I said I split at high speeds? Double 6 is 12. Last I checked 12 wasn't high speeds. It's also not illegal. Now take 6 over. If they are gojng 25 and I go 31. That's unsafe? Sometimes maybe (rarely) on the 5 where it's tight but other times it's perfectly safe. Traffic's over 45 and I don't split at all. Not safe.

I've been to MSF both beginner and advanced. I don't ride like a nut. The fact that I've never had an accident or a ticket while riding is a fairly good indicator that I ride safely and defensively.

I think I may have misread this earlier post from you.

Stopping riders for 6 MPH over while splitting is chicken****. I've spilt WITH Chp's Officers at double that. Your mentality is backwards.

The initial poster talked about splitting at 25mph when traffic was stopped and when I read your post I was thinking you were talking about splitting at 6mph over that speed or then double that with a CHP officer which would be 37mph (with traffic stopped). Thats where I got the higher speed comments and that you were giving bad advice. If you are saying that you are splitting at 6mph faster than existing traffic thats a little better, but I still disagree with doing it at up to 45mph. The beautiful thing about the internet is that we can all sit here and debate......and we dont have to agree

[Smurfette_76]

Anybody got any popcorn?

[hbliam]

Your arguement is sound! All SOUND!!!

You opt to use a public forum to opine in a negative manner with another LEO. For that reason, sir, you have no credibility with me and your opinion is without merit.

Have a good day and continue with your arrogance and public disrespect for how other LEOs perform their duties or enforce the law.

If you care to further any discussion on this matter with me, do so in private.

Remember this particular section is a public forum for asking questions of LE; not, for one LEO to attack a fellow LEO.

Never have I read on here that we couldn't have a differing opinion on how discretion is used. You can take it for arrogance or whatever other insult you wish to throw my way. For me to now have no credibilty with you because I disagree with one aspect of how you strictly interpret a vague aspect of riding that has no actual code section is fine as well.

I'll keep splitting at what I (and every other CHP Officer that I have split with) considers a safe and reasonable speed and you can keep putting along at 5 over the flow.

[SgtCHP]

I am more then qualified to make the assessment of what a chicken**** stop is.

Your arguement is sound! All SOUND!!!

You opt to use a public forum to opine in a negative manner with another LEO. For that reason, sir, you have no credibility with me and your opinion is without merit.

Have a good day and continue with your arrogance and public disrespect for how other LEOs perform their duties or enforce the law.

If you care to further any discussion on this matter with me, do so in private.

Remember this particular section is a public forum for asking questions of LE; not, for one LEO to attack a fellow LEO.

[hbliam]

You are correct. But, the originator of this thread asked about the DMV handbook for motorcycle riders: "...Furthermore, why doesn't the CA Motorcycle manual speak to lane sharing specifically and give recommended speeds for conditions?...", not the CHP website. And, that is what I quoted!

I know what he quoted. You brought the CHP into with your statement regarding what you do. I posted the CHP blurb to go right along with a CHP officer's odd definition of "safe".

Exactly the type of comment I would expect from an arrogant @ZZ who thinks the laws do not apply to him. My post specifically states that my comment was based on "MY EXPERIENCE" which takes in the years of my assignment as a motor officer for the CHP. For more than ten years I pounded the pavement and have over 500,000 miles of enforcement riding. I performed those duties with great pride and integrity. Too bad I did not get to you before you developed into a pompous rider.

Wow. I called your practice chicken****..not you. But you find it neccessary to insult me? Where does it say that I don't think the laws apply to me? What law did I say I break?

There are two types of motorcycle riders: Those who have gone down and those who are going down! You may think you are the best rider in CA; but, that cockiness will eventually take you down. All of the motor officers I have ever worked with performed their duties with the objective of reducing the numbers of incidents that arise from aggressive riders like yourself! And, we were successful - in my day!

You are right. Luckily I usually fall on the days I ride dirt. I never said anything about my riding ability. Saying I haven't had an accident means nothing more then I ride as if everyone is going to hit me. Double that mentality when splitting. I'm still going to go more then 6 MPH. Hell the bike barely balances at 6MPH. 6 plus whatever 20, 30, ...still safe IMO. Actually it's always safer to ride faster then traffic to some degree on a motorcycle. You end up in less blind spots and have the control to move to the safest areas of the roadway.

I won't criticize your line of work. Don't take liberty in criticizing mine; you are not qualified!

I didn't criticize your line of work. I criticized your practice of stopping people for 6 MPH over. I am more then qualified to make the assessment of what a chicken**** stop is.

[hbliam]

Your profile says you are a sworn officer, but your post screams otherwise. Guess what....just because you have done something does not make it legal. So what...youve split with CHP at high speeds....people drive on the freeway faster than the speed limit and dont always get stopped.....doesnt make it legal or safe. Your claim of no accidents, no tickets and no chicken**** warnings means absolutely nothing also....I write tickets everyday to people who say that. If you are an experience rider you should be reminding others to ride safe and defensively so someone doesnt see your cocky post and end up hurting themselves.

My post sceams otherwise? Because I split at more then 6MPH? Give me a break. Please also show me where I said I split at high speeds? Double 6 is 12. Last I checked 12 wasn't high speeds. It's also not illegal. Now take 6 over. If they are gojng 25 and I go 31. That's unsafe? Sometimes maybe (rarely) on the 5 where it's tight but other times it's perfectly safe. Traffic's over 45 and I don't split at all. Not safe.

I've been to MSF both beginner and advanced. I don't ride like a nut. The fact that I've never had an accident or a ticket while riding is a fairly good indicator that I ride safely and defensively.

[Smurfette_76]

I could see someone going in between cars in stopped traffic and only if they themselves are going slow because you just never know when someone might open a car door or whatever, but I'm sorry, hon...it blows my mind that people would do this while traffic is ALSO moving at anything faster than I could run...I just...*shaking my head* I don't get it. I can't imagine what a PITA your job is...LOL.

[Fuzz]

Stopping riders for 6 MPH over while splitting is chicken****. I've spilt WITH Chp's Officers at double that. Your mentality is backwards. When the vehicles are at higher speeds they change lanes and postions much faster and going 10 over at 45 (you at 55) is way more dangerous then me splitting at 25 when the vehicles are going 10 or 15 or are stopped. Riding for 30 years, splitting for 20. No accidents, no tickets, no chicken**** warnings.

To the poster: go to court.

Your profile says you are a sworn officer, but your post screams otherwise. Guess what....just because you have done something does not make it legal. So what...youve split with CHP at high speeds....people drive on the freeway faster than the speed limit and dont always get stopped.....doesnt make it legal or safe. Your claim of no accidents, no tickets and no chicken**** warnings means absolutely nothing also....I write tickets everyday to people who say that. If you are an experience rider you should be reminding others to ride safe and defensively so someone doesnt see your cocky post and end up hurting themselves.

[Fuzz]

Okay, chalk this up to two things..1) I don't ride a motorcycle and 2) we don't have freeways this far east in NC. Okay, what I'm figuring out by reading this thread and "lane sharing" is that he's on a bike in bumper to bumper traffic that is going up to 30 MPH. So, if I have this right, he's going in between cars that are traveling up to 30 MPH?...not knowing at what point they might suddenly change lanes...am I seriously reading (and understanding) this correctly? If you're in a car, aren't you able to take up as much room in your lane as you want? At what point are we sharing lanes? Ummm...isn't that why we HAVE lines on the roads?

This is a daily occurence here in socal. Bumper to bumper stop and go traffic and it is legal for a motorcycle to safely "split" between the rows of cars. Everyday I see motorcycle riders splitting at 40,50 60 mph and when I stop them they are clueless as to why it could be dangerous. For some reason riding on two wheels makes many people feel invincible. I have no problem with lane splitting at a slow speed, but as I said in my previous post there are too many inexperienced, uneducated and unlicensed motorcycle riders out there. DMV needs to make the motorcycle license requirements much more difficult to weed out a lot of the poor riders. Many of the "lane splitters" I stop are on a permit and not even legally allowed to be on the freeway let alone splitting lanes in traffic.

[Smurfette_76]

Okay, chalk this up to two things..1) I don't ride a motorcycle and 2) we don't have freeways this far east in NC. Okay, what I'm figuring out by reading this thread and "lane sharing" is that he's on a bike in bumper to bumper traffic that is going up to 30 MPH. So, if I have this right, he's going in between cars that are traveling up to 30 MPH?...not knowing at what point they might suddenly change lanes...am I seriously reading (and understanding) this correctly? If you're in a car, aren't you able to take up as much room in your lane as you want? At what point are we sharing lanes? Ummm...isn't that why we HAVE lines on the roads?

[SgtCHP]

and this is from CHP's website:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html#03

"Can motorcycle riders "split" lanes and ride between other vehicles?

Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner."

You are correct. But, the originator of this thread asked about the DMV handbook for motorcycle riders: "...Furthermore, why doesn't the CA Motorcycle manual speak to lane sharing specifically and give recommended speeds for conditions?...", not the CHP website. And, that is what I quoted!

Stopping riders for 6 MPH over while splitting is chicken****. I've spilt WITH Chp's Officers at double that. Your mentality is backwards.

Exactly the type of comment I would expect from an arrogant @ZZ who thinks the laws do not apply to him. My post specifically states that my comment was based on "MY EXPERIENCE" which takes in the years of my assignment as a motor officer for the CHP. For more than ten years I pounded the pavement and have over 500,000 miles of enforcement riding. I performed those duties with great pride and integrity. Too bad I did not get to you before you developed into a pompous rider.

When the vehicles are at higher speeds they change lanes and postions much faster and going 10 over at 45 (you at 55) is way more dangerous then me splitting at 25 when the vehicles are going 10 or 15 or are stopped. Riding for 30 years, splitting for 20. No accidents, no tickets, no chicken**** warnings.

There are two types of motorcycle riders: Those who have gone down and those who are going down! You may think you are the best rider in CA; but, that cockiness will eventually take you down. All of the motor officers I have ever worked with performed their duties with the objective of reducing the numbers of incidents that arise from aggressive riders like yourself! And, we were successful - in my day!


I won't criticize your line of work. Don't take liberty in criticizing mine; you are not qualified!

[hbliam]

And if I say I want to sue to make it right, then I have that right.

Contest the ticket.

Going to court against the State regarding lane splitting is going to do nothing more then screw up splitting for the rest of us. Leave it alone.

[saferider2007]

Thanks

Thanks for everyone's responses, corrections, etc.

I will say this. It is an unclear law. If I'm going 65 in a 55, I'm 10 miles over the speed limit. If my alcohol concentration is .16 and the legal limit is, .08, I am twice the legal limit for operating a motor vehicle. If I did not come to a complete stop at a stop sign, or went through a red light, I failed to obey a semifore. These are all clear laws and clear violations.

This 'safe and prudent' law is about as un-clear as it can get, plain and simple. And if I say I want to sue to make it right, then I have that right.