Lane-splitting at 15-25 MPH on the I-5

[saferider2007]

Hello All,

I was lane-sharing/splitting the other day on the I-5 in San Diego. It was a normal day, stop and go traffic that flucuated between around 5 MPH to 20-30 MPH. I was going about 15-25 depending on what traffic was doing. I slow down when traffic does, and I speed up when traffic does. I seize lane sharing if traffic gets up over around 30 MPH.

Anyway, so I get pulled over by a Motor CHP Cop. He said what I was doing was unsafe and at unsafe speeds, continues to try and lecture me what it's like to have someone pull out on me. Really? Duh, as if I didn't know that. I am not one of those squids that zooms between cars on these 1000r crotch rockets at 60 MPH either. I am very safe, because I do know what can happen. I am very, very aware of the consequences, and I let him know that I take it seriously. Well, he wasn't having it, he wrote me up a ticket for an unsafe speed at a whopping 25 MPH. While I was going 25 at times, it was not when traffic was around the 5MPH level.

This is a rediculous ticket that was obviously given to make a quota, and one that I plan on fighting. How can 25 MPH be unsafe? If it's unsafe, why is lane-splitting legal? Why don't we just walk to work???

Furthermore, why doesn't the CA Motorcycle manual speak to lane sharing specifically and give recommended speeds for conditions? I could easily sue the state for not providing me with a clear definition, and subsequently empowering it's officers to write me a ticket on an un-clear law.

What do you think about my plight?

[StudChris]

What exactly was the ticket for? In Florida we have Unlawful Speed-Too fast for conditions, which is pretty easy to give a citation for. Conditions can mean road conditions, traffic congestion, weather, whatever.

And obviously given to make a quota? As many drivers (stupid drivers) as there are in California I don't think the CHP needs to pick on anyone for any kind of quota.

And of course you can easily sue the state. Anyone can sue anyone... but like most all you'll get out of it is chastised by the judge for wasting the courts time.

[SgtCHP]

I was not there and do not know what the officer observed so I will reserve my opinion to my experiences as a motorcycle officer on Southern California freeways. As a rule, I would not stop a motorcycle if the speed was 5 MPH or less than the NORMAL FLOW of traffic. Anything over 6 MPH got stopped and warned. 10 over got the rider a ticket......no argument. However, if the normal speed was in the higher range - 45 MPH and above; but, less than the maximum allowed speed limit, 10 mph over may not be unsafe. Bottom line is this: The officer has the responsibility of keeping accidents to a minimum and if he/she is of the opinion that your speed was unsafe that is the officers call. If you dispute that you have the right to plead not guilty and ask for a hearing.

This is a quote from the "California Motorcycle Rider's Handbook" - page 15.

Lane Sharing

Cars and motorcycles each need a full lane to operate safely. Lane sharing is not safe.
Riding between rows of stopped or moving cars in the same lane can leave you vulnerable. A car could turn suddenly or change lanes, a door could open, or a hand could come out of a window. Discourage lane sharing by others. Keep a center position whenever drivers might be tempted to squeeze by you.

Drivers are most tempted to do this:

•In heavy, bumper-to-bumper traffic.

•When they want to pass you.

•When you are preparing to turn at an intersection.

•When you are moving into an exit lane or leaving a highway.

[firestone88]

Furthermore, why doesn't the CA Motorcycle manual speak to lane sharing specifically and give recommended speeds for conditions? I could easily sue the state for not providing me with a clear definition, and subsequently empowering it's officers to write me a ticket on an un-clear law.

Is it just me, or does this sound like a threat?

[exComptonCop]

This is a rediculous ticket that was obviously given to make a quota, and one that I plan on fighting.

Ticket quotas are an urban myth, and illegal in many states.

If you feel you've been wronged, ask for your day in court...it's your right

[exComptonCop]

Is it just me, or does this sound like a threat?

In more technical terms...gibberish

[firestone88]

In more technical terms...gibberish

Copy gibberish!

[nobody33]

Not only does the CHP not have ticket quotas.. they don't get any revenue from tickets. It goes to local cities, counties, but mostly the courts.

[Fuzz]

Hello All,

I was lane-sharing/splitting the other day on the I-5 in San Diego. It was a normal day, stop and go traffic that flucuated between around 5 MPH to 20-30 MPH. I was going about 15-25 depending on what traffic was doing. I slow down when traffic does, and I speed up when traffic does. I seize lane sharing if traffic gets up over around 30 MPH.

Anyway, so I get pulled over by a Motor CHP Cop. He said what I was doing was unsafe and at unsafe speeds, continues to try and lecture me what it's like to have someone pull out on me. Really? Duh, as if I didn't know that.

You would be surprised how many uneducated, unexperienced and unlicensed motorcycle riders are out there so most do not know the information he was telling you.

I am not one of those squids that zooms between cars on these 1000r crotch rockets at 60 MPH either. I am very safe, because I do know what can happen. I am very, very aware of the consequences, and I let him know that I take it seriously. Well, he wasn't having it, he wrote me up a ticket for an unsafe speed at a whopping 25 MPH. While I was going 25 at times, it was not when traffic was around the 5MPH level.

This is a rediculous ticket that was obviously given to make a quota, and one that I plan on fighting.

You are incorrect.....no quotas and it is only ridiculous in your opinion. Thats the great thing about our country....if you have a different opinion to the ticket you can take it to court.

How can 25 MPH be unsafe?

I can list dozens of reasons why lane splitting at 25mph could be unsafe. It all depends on the conditions. At 25mph you are traveling 36.67 feet per second in an area trapped between two cars. Average perception/reaction time is 1.5 seconds which equals 55 feet you have traveled before you are able to react to an incident. That is about 3-4 car lengths. Do you think something unsafe could happen in that time before you can react....it sure could. Does that make your speed unsafe....maybe....maybe not. I was not there to see how traffic was moving, how much room there was between cars, etc, but you cannot just make a blanket statement that 25mph is always a safe speed..

If it's unsafe, why is lane-splitting legal?

Because you are allowed to do it at a safe speed.....just as you may drive a car at a safe speed. As to why it is still legal......if you dont want to do it at a safe speed then write your legislature to make it illegal.


Why don't we just walk to work???

You should...it would save gas money and the environment.


Furthermore, why doesn't the CA Motorcycle manual speak to lane sharing specifically and give recommended speeds for conditions?

You are not going to have a government agency manual tell you what a safe speed is. THey are not going to be able to cover all the conditions...that is for the driver to do. If you cannot tell what a safe speed is then stay in traffic and dont lane split.

I could easily sue the state for not providing me with a clear definition, and subsequently empowering it's officers to write me a ticket on an un-clear law.

You could, but you would lose. Nice to see another person throw out the lawsuit card.

What do you think about my plight?

I think you should not bash on an officer because he wrote you a ticket.....that is his job. If you think you were safe then go to court and plead your side of the story.

[D.o.D cop]

Dude's just mad he got a ticket, pay the fine. If the officer felt it was unsafe, I would assume his MANYYEARS of experence should be enough considering the wrecks and fatalities he's seen. He wasn't doing it to be a jerk. So get oer it and pay the ticket, and I'm sure that ticket really doesn't cost as much as the $359 one I gave out to a guy the other day for doing 42 mph in a 20 mph active school zone....count your blessings.

[GoldBadge]

Anyway, so I get pulled over by a Motor CHP Cop. He said what I was doing was unsafe and at unsafe speeds, continues to try and lecture me what it's like to have someone pull out on me.

I agree that it was unsafe but I disagree with the practice of lecturing AND writing a ticket. I used to do one or the other, but not both.

I could easily sue the state for not providing me with a clear definition, and subsequently empowering it's officers to write me a ticket on an un-clear law.

That lawsuit won't make it through the courtroom doors. Many laws are non-specific so as to give a reasonable person some judgment based on the conditions; "Reckless Driving" for example in many states is open for interpretation. How about "Unsafe Lane Chnage?"

Pay the ticket.

[grumpyirishman]

What you did is called "Reckless Driving" in Virginia!!

[hbliam]

Not only does the CHP not have ticket quotas.. they don't get any revenue from tickets. It goes to local cities, counties, but mostly the courts.

Your kidding right? Why do you think all those 4000(a)(1) tickets are written by the CHP?

[hbliam]

I was not there and do not know what the officer observed so I will reserve my opinion to my experiences as a motorcycle officer on Southern California freeways. As a rule, I would not stop a motorcycle if the speed was 5 MPH or less than the NORMAL FLOW of traffic. Anything over 6 MPH got stopped and warned. 10 over got the rider a ticket......no argument. However, if the normal speed was in the higher range - 45 MPH and above; but, less than the maximum allowed speed limit, 10 mph over may not be unsafe. Bottom line is this: The officer has the responsibility of keeping accidents to a minimum and if he/she is of the opinion that your speed was unsafe that is the officers call. If you dispute that you have the right to plead not guilty and ask for a hearing.

This is a quote from the "California Motorcycle Rider's Handbook" - page 15.

Lane Sharing

Cars and motorcycles each need a full lane to operate safely. Lane sharing is not safe.
Riding between rows of stopped or moving cars in the same lane can leave you vulnerable. A car could turn suddenly or change lanes, a door could open, or a hand could come out of a window. Discourage lane sharing by others. Keep a center position whenever drivers might be tempted to squeeze by you.

Drivers are most tempted to do this:

•In heavy, bumper-to-bumper traffic.

•When they want to pass you.

•When you are preparing to turn at an intersection.

•When you are moving into an exit lane or leaving a highway.

and this is from CHP's website:

http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html#03

"Can motorcycle riders "split" lanes and ride between other vehicles?

Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner."

Stopping riders for 6 MPH over while splitting is chicken****. I've spilt WITH Chp's Officers at double that. Your mentality is backwards. When the vehicles are at higher speeds they change lanes and postions much faster and going 10 over at 45 (you at 55) is way more dangerous then me splitting at 25 when the vehicles are going 10 or 15 or are stopped. Riding for 30 years, splitting for 20. No accidents, no tickets, no chicken**** warnings.

To the poster: go to court.

[jakflak]

This is a rediculous ticket that was obviously given to make a quota, and one that I plan on fighting.

1) Not to be a jerk, but it's spelled Ridiculous
2) Quota don't exist. We get to write as many tickets as we want. I'm not sure about where you live, but I don't have to 'make up' driving offenses here to write tickets. If I follow someone for 30 feet I'll find a valid reason to cite them. It's not a question of making stuff up to fill the imaginary quota, it's a question of deciding which violations are worth the traffic stop.
3) If you're going to fight it anyway, why are you posting here?

How can 25 MPH be unsafe?

Go to court. The judge and/or officer will explain it to you.

I could easily sue the state for not providing me with a clear definition, and subsequently empowering it's officers to write me a ticket on an un-clear law.

You do that. Tell me how it works out.

What do you think about my plight?

When I hear of a 'plight' I generally think of genocide in Rwanda or a terminally ill kid trying to get the medical treatment he/she needs to live. I don't think it applies to getting a citation for something you disagree with.